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Green Hills/Belle Meade Projects

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"Southern Land Co.’s CEO Tim Downey has defended the project, saying it is a first step towards making Green Hills a live-work-play community that will allow residents and workers to walk rather than drive their cars."

This quote made me laugh a little. I love the SLC project but, really, this building is not going to make Green Hills walkable. First step? Residents can walk out their front door, but will still have to drive across the street to Whole Foods or to the Regal. Absent a tear down and redesign of the Hillsboro corridor, pedestrians have no chance.

You have to be creative, but you can walk green hills.

 

The other day a friend and I parked at greenbriar village. We went to Parnassus and Donut Den. Then I had to get cash so we walked over to the US bank across richard jones road. Richard Jones has decent sidewalks. Next we walked down Richard jones to trader joes. The crosswalk there is ugly but it exists and there is a signal phase for pedestrian crossing. This will likely be improved with the new building.

 

After shopping at TJ's we crossed again and walked along the really nice sidewalk in front of greenbriar village, dropped the groceries off in the car. Crossed again at Abbot Martin. Here we cheated- although we weren't going to the mall we did walk through it. Think of it as a climate controlled pedestrian bypass with a lot of teens and expensive retail to ignore.

 

Exiting onto the north side of the mall there is quite a nice sidewalk that you can take to the theatre. You then have to pass by the rather charming outdoor cafe at table 3. Then we walked back to the theater and watched gravity which was INTENSE! After the movie we walked back along the north side of the mall past a lot of al fresco dining that would be more charming if it didn't look out onto a sea of parking.

 

There is a staircase down from the nordstrom parking lot that leads to a fine sidewalk along hillsboro. We took it back to abbot martin, crossed over to greenbriar village, hopped in the car and went on our way, although we could have walked down the pleasant sidewalks on bandywood to the greenhouse bar for a drink.

 

Yes, lots of work remains to make green hills walkable. Changing perceptions of appropriate transportation will be as important as installing the remaining infrastructure, though.

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Community meeting on proposed Green Hills plan update and zone change for parcel at 2107 Bernard.  (Note:  Hillsboro Village and Midtown are classified by Planning as part of the Green Hills/Midtown Community Plan).

The Metropolitan Planning Department will host a community meeting to discuss a proposed amendment to the Green Hills - Midtown Community Plan: 2005 Update and zone change at property located at 2107 Bernard Avenue.

The community meeting will be held on Monday, October 28, 2013 from 6:00 p.m. to7:00 p.m., at the Martin Professional Development Center on 2400 Fairfax Ave.,Nashville, TN 37212.

The applicant is requesting an amendment to the Green Hills – Midtown Community Plan to change the current policy from Neighborhood General to Transitional Office or Buffer in Neighborhood General, and is also requesting to change the zoning from R6 Residential to SP – MU Zoning (Specific Plan – Mixed Use), to permit residential and general office uses.

For more information, email [email protected] or call (615)862-7188.Image_%20Property%20Location_Office%20Tr

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The Tennessean gets the scoop (I think) on another expansion at the Mall at Green Hills... while they had announced (vaguely) that there was a plan for future expansion.  Here are more details...

 

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20131028/BUSINESS/310280076/Mall-Green-Hills-expanding-targeting-more-high-end-retailers?odyssey=mod{sodEmoji.|}breaking{sodEmoji.|}text{sodEmoji.|}FRONTPAGE

 

 

So if my estimates (and memory) are correct, this puts the mall at over 1 million s.f. of retail space.  I believe it currently sits at around 920,000. 

Edited by MLBrumby

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That's a long time...

 

rumor has it that the new dillards will take that long because they are planning 23 stories (to one-up the richard jones development.)  :shades:

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rumor has it that the new dillards will take that long because they are planning 23 stories (to one-up the richard jones development.)  :shades:

 

Plus a fourteen foot crown...

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I'm disappointed that it's a Dillards though. I was hoping for a Neiman Marcus or bloomingdales.

 

When I think of high-end shopping, Dillards doesn't come to mind. We need a Bergdorfs.

Edited by FromParkAveToTN
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Anyway, GH residents got together to discuss ways to address the traffic situation. Suffice it to say, nothing was (or could have been) accomplished because anything making sense wouldn't make anyone happy.

 

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20131029/NEWS01/310290034/Green-Hills-residents-discuss-ways-relieve-traffic-congestion

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Reading about this plan, I understand the expansion will have to take place in at least four phases...

 

1. Building new garage on Cleghorn

2. Demolishing old garage at corner of Cleghorn and Abbott Martin

3. Building new Dillards (180k)

4. Fitting old Dillards building for new retail shops

 

So the four year timeline is a bit easier to understand. No construction costs have been publicly announced; so one would wonder if there is more to this as Taubman shops potential space for 1-2 new future anchors.  I recall prior to the Nordstrom addition, it was stated that the mall had enough land for three more anchors (apparently moving Dillards to the corner takes one of those "3 slots").  I don't think Taubman owns the long professional building next door, but maybe someone here can set me straight on that. I also recall discussion about a hotel at an earlier time (pre-recession), but of course, that was under the previous owner Davis Land. 

 

I don't pretend to know what's in store (yes, I know) for MAGH, but I find two concurrent things quite interesting: 1) The discussions about alleviating  traffic in Green Hills.  It seems a big "No duh!" would be to align 2-3 of those intersections on Hillsboro and improve signal timing; but what do I know? Wouldn't such a project also be a grand opportunity to bury several of the unsightly utility poles?    

 

Then 2) the recently announced planned expansions at Cool Springs. That mall's owner CBL is not known for its high-end properties (CS may be their nicest), but they do have a lot of properties and maintain them reasonably well (If you like malls, and I don't).  

 

Sort of a microcosm of what could be going on in other midsize markets and as malls in general fall in favor with shoppers, it seems that Cool Springs would love to grab more of the high end market. Just speculating. 

 

Maybe our retail "experts" here have much better insight. 

 

Added... 

 

William Williams has more on this project in the Post...  http://nashvillepost.com/news/2013/10/28/mall_at_green_hills_to_expand_with_new_dillards

Edited by MLBrumby

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Interestingly, the original plan for 440 called for an interchange at Granny White Pike.

 

IMO the only way to alleviate that mess is to realign the cluster around the mall.

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Re-align Richard Jones Rd and Abbott Martin Rd to intersect. Eliminates one red light. Re-align Glen Echo Rd and Crestmoor Rd. Eliminates one red light. Possibly try to move the mall entrance (with the light) right up next to the SunTrust, giving just a wee bit more space between that signal and the one and Glen Echo.

 

CVS, Walgreens, and Men's Warehouse have to find new locations. Parking has to be shifted. New land will be open.

 

It doesn't solve traffic problems, but it should have a pronounced effect on that stretch of Hillsboro Rd, where the mall & high school is definitely a choke point. The advantage of the cross streets will be that visitors from the east and west won't be forced to "jog" on Hillsboro Rd to get where they are going.

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Interestingly, the original plan for 440 called for an interchange at Granny White Pike.

 

IMO the only way to alleviate that mess is to realign the cluster around the mall.

 

 

Even that won't be a fix-all for the area. I'm curious what, if anything, it would actually accomplish.

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No, a Granny White interchange wouldn't fix anything on Hillsboro.  Just pointing out that it was originally called for in the plans.

 

The giant mess of cross streets around the mall is the real issue.

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Re-align Richard Jones Rd and Abbott Martin Rd to intersect. Eliminates one red light. Re-align Glen Echo Rd and Crestmoor Rd. Eliminates one red light. Possibly try to move the mall entrance (with the light) right up next to the SunTrust, giving just a wee bit more space between that signal and the one and Glen Echo.

 

CVS, Walgreens, and Men's Warehouse have to find new locations. Parking has to be shifted. New land will be open.

 

It doesn't solve traffic problems, but it should have a pronounced effect on that stretch of Hillsboro Rd, where the mall & high school is definitely a choke point. The advantage of the cross streets will be that visitors from the east and west won't be forced to "jog" on Hillsboro Rd to get where they are going.

I love this plan! It makes so much sense and would not only improve the traffic flow but the piece meal aesthetics currently in place. Underground utilities please!

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Reading about this plan, I understand the expansion will have to take place in at least four phases...

 

1. Building new garage on Cleghorn

2. Demolishing old garage at corner of Cleghorn and Abbott Martin

3. Building new Dillards (180k)

4. Fitting old Dillards building for new retail shops

 

So the four year timeline is a bit easier to understand. No construction costs have been publicly announced; so one would wonder if there is more to this as Taubman shops potential space for 1-2 new future anchors.  I recall prior to the Nordstrom addition, it was stated that the mall had enough land for three more anchors (apparently moving Dillards to the corner takes one of those "3 slots").  I don't think Taubman owns the long professional building next door, but maybe someone here can set me straight on that. I also recall discussion about a hotel at an earlier time (pre-recession), but of course, that was under the previous owner Davis Land. 

 

I don't pretend to know what's in store (yes, I know) for MAGH, but I find two concurrent things quite interesting: 1) The discussions about alleviating  traffic in Green Hills.  It seems a big "No duh!" would be to align 2-3 of those intersections on Hillsboro and improve signal timing; but what do I know? Wouldn't such a project also be a grand opportunity to bury several of the unsightly utility poles?    

 

Then 2) the recently announced planned expansions at Cool Springs. That mall's owner CBL is not known for its high-end properties (CS may be their nicest), but they do have a lot of properties and maintain them reasonably well (If you like malls, and I don't).  

 

Sort of a microcosm of what could be going on in other midsize markets and as malls in general fall in favor with shoppers, it seems that Cool Springs would love to grab more of the high end market. Just speculating. 

 

Maybe our retail "experts" here have much better insight. 

 

Added... 

 

William Williams has more on this project in the Post...  http://nashvillepost.com/news/2013/10/28/mall_at_green_hills_to_expand_with_new_dillards

 

I'm trying to envision where a couple of more anchors could potentially go with the new Dillards location in mind. To my eye, it appears that there would be enough room for another Nordstrom-sized anchor along Abbott Martin once Dillards moves and that small surface lot is wiped out. This would probably leave enough room for some additional, smaller stores as well. If the office buiding between the mall and the movie theater is in play, then that would be room for an additional large expansion and another anchor at some point. 

 

I recall also that "Insighter" on SSC seemed fairly confident about Neiman Marcus looking for a Green Hills location before he stopped posting. Perhaps we'll get another anchor with this expansion. I'm not sure. The articles simply call for the construction of 125,000 sf of new retail space on site of the current Dillards. It doesn't seem clear to me whether this will be 125,000 sf for the mall in addition to the space freed up by razing the current Dillards or simply rebuilding 125,000 sf of retail in total on the site of the current Dillards. If it's the latter, then I would guess there would be no new anchor with this expansion and only smaller stores.

Edited by ariesjow

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Believe it or not there is still a lot of space that is currently parking there that could be used for even more expansion sometime down the road.

 

I did a rough calculation (Google planimeter) and included the new Dillard's space, and the surface lot on Abbott Martin in front of Dillards...as well as the Exxon on the corner of Hillsboro and Abbott Martin and the surface lot in front of Macy's (but not the nearby bank)...excluded the current access points and freight entries...and I came up with a mall footprint of 705,000 sq ft. At two floors, that would be 1.4 million sq ft. Part of it is obviously at 1 floor...so probably a potential 1.25-1.3 million sq ft without expanding into the northern surface lot (which I think would be tricky).

 

If malls are still a thing by the time that potential expansion is fulfilled, I think the next logical step would be to redevelop the strip mall portion, and possibly some of the independent buildings north of the mall up to Crestmoor as a second unit of the mall (perhaps in a similar fashion to how Lennox Square and Phipps Plaza operate in Buckhead, but occupying the same "block" rather than across a busy highway).

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I don't quite understand the project boundaries (Woodmont, Hopkins, Graybar and Benham).   I'm guessing it will span both sides of Graybar Ln across the street from the GH library?    That's a large area.

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This was predictable... Southern Land has announced a reduction in height for their GH tower.  As I said a few months ago after the 22-story proposal, they dropped the height to 16.  It's a proven tactic among developers when they want to build something that is taller than everything around it and expect NIMBY pushback.  Now they drop the height as a "compromise".  So SL gets a tower that's actually 2 floors taller than their original plan, and it will sit closer to the street because of its shorter height.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/morning_call/2013/11/southern-land-scales-down-green-hills.html

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