Inside 440 - Berry Hill, Midtown, Vanderbilt, 12S, WeHo, Fairgrounds, etc.

[Hey_Hey]

Repeater! Haha

[smeagolsfree]

Ha I didn't see. Sorry Marshall. Senior moment.

[Hey_Hey]

You were just adding for emphasis.

I do think this decision will create far reaching ripples that will affect developments along the Row for years to come. A relatively short delay that will (hopefully) lead to a better product is worth it, in my opinion.

[Paramount747]

And another letdown...

 

 

Going in the newly vacant lot  across from the just finished Renasant Bank on West End per the Tennessean...

Looks like a suburban Cool Springs located bank. Do you really need the ugly sign? Its plastered all over the bank itself.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Paramount747

[samsonh]

You were just adding for emphasis.

I do think this decision will create far reaching ripples that will affect developments along the Row for years to come. A relatively short delay that will (hopefully) lead to a better product is worth it, in my opinion.

 

One can hope but I am a bit pessimistic about this whole thing. I would be really angry if I were a property owner and wanted to monetize my holdings.

 

Also,  if Music Row is something the city really values, can we start improving the roads and sidewalks? It really is incredible how pothole ridden 16th S is right now, and the sidewalks are in disrepair. So if this really was an area where tourists went(which it is not aside from the Music Row ghost tours, lol), can we start investing some money in infrastructure. If we do not allow development we will be left with even more vacant businesses and unkept alleyways, which no one wants.

[Hey_Hey]

One can hope but I am a bit pessimistic about this whole thing. I would be really angry if I were a property owner and wanted to monetize my holdings.

 

There is nothing the city can do to prevent an owner from monetizing his or her holdings as long as it is consistent with current zoning.  What is being implemented is a soft moratorium on any zoning change.  The rules really haven't changed at all, and the owners of this land have never had the right to build something that is inconsistent with zoning, although I think many developers and owners do feel they have the absolute right to do with their land whatever they see fit.  I understand that argument, but it is inconsistent with our set of laws that are currently in place.

[samsonh]

There is nothing the city can do to prevent an owner from monetizing his or her holdings as long as it is consistent with current zoning.  What is being implemented is a soft moratorium on any zoning change.  The rules really haven't changed at all, and the owners of this land have never had the right to build something that is inconsistent with zoning, although I think many developers and owners do feel they have the absolute right to do with their land whatever they see fit.  I understand that argument, but it is inconsistent with our set of laws that are currently in place.

 

Agreed completely, however if you do not allow zoning changes you will see properties in this area fall further into disrepair. Sometimes I feel like I am the only one on this board who drives down these streets often. The revitalization of Music Row is beginning to spread to Edgehill and up towards 12th, and eventually hopefully all the way to 8th. I worry that changes will prevent this from happening and keep this area poor and crime ridden.

[Hey_Hey]

Agreed completely, however if you do not allow zoning changes you will see properties in this area fall further into disrepair. Sometimes I feel like I am the only one on this board who drives down these streets often. The revitalization of Music Row is beginning to spread to Edgehill and up towards 12th, and eventually hopefully all the way to 8th. I worry that changes will prevent this from happening and keep this area poor and crime ridden.

 

I drive and walk these streets every day as I live in the neighborhood. My house shares an alley with 16th Ave. As for the area being crime ridden and poor, I would respectfully disagree. On my street you can hardly find a house without a terminal degree of some sort, and crime has never been lower. Empty lots and tear downs are now selling for $350,000 and new builds are selling for well over $500,000.  We get occasional property crime, but drug dealing and violence have been removed from the neighborhood for years.

 

The residential revitalization in and around Edgehill Village have proceeded largely without any zoning changes. There is one property along Sigler that received an SP that nearing a start date, but other than that development has proceeded in accordance with current zoning. Even the large-ish development on Wade was consistent with base zoning.   Even along Music Row proper there is ongoing development that fits within current zoning. The new SESAC headquarters was built by right, and the Forestar Group is building an apartment development with a little retail that is essentially by right. They technically made it an SP to minimally alter some setbacks and to get and additional 5-10% of additional units, but it would have likely been viable without the SP.

[samsonh]

I drive and walk these streets every day as I live in the neighborhood. My house shares an alley with 16th Ave. As for the area being crime ridden and poor, I would respectfully disagree. On my street you can hardly find a house without a terminal degree of some sort, and crime has never been lower. Empty lots and tear downs are now selling for $350,000 and new builds are selling for well over $500,000.  We get occasional property crime, but drug dealing and violence have been removed from the neighborhood for years.

 

The residential revitalization in and around Edgehill Village have proceeded largely without any zoning changes. There is one property along Sigler that received an SP that nearing a start date, but other than that development has proceeded in accordance with current zoning. Even the large-ish development on Wade was consistent with base zoning.   Even along Music Row proper there is ongoing development that fits within current zoning. The new SESAC headquarters was built by right, and the Forestar Group is building an apartment development with a little retail that is essentially by right. They technically made it an SP to minimally alter some setbacks and to get and additional 5-10% of additional units, but it would have likely been viable without the SP.

 

I live slightly further away on 18th, however the crime thing may have something to do with the new police station. But as you move from music row to the Edgehill projects and particularly as you cross 12th on Edgehill, that is not an area most people would want to live in now. That can change, and I hope it does.

 

Surely you cannot deny that Music Row at this point in time is not being utilized to its best and highest use? Many of the existing small labels and law firms will be gone within a few years imo, industry change will make this happen.  What will take these firms places? Will the dilapidated homes on Music Row be kept up? Will it become a walkable neighborhood instead of a thoroughfare between Vandy/Belmont and Demonbreun/40/65 as it is now?

[Hey_Hey]

I live slightly further away on 18th, however the crime thing may have something to do with the new police station. But as you move from music row to the Edgehill projects and particularly as you cross 12th on Edgehill, that is not an area most people would want to live in now. That can change, and I hope it does.

 

 

The crime issue was resolving before the police station, but it has helped, I'm sure.  You are correct that the further east you go the more crime you will see.  However, the crime ridden areas are getting smaller and smaller as the Music Row area expands east and 12South expands north.

 

 

 

Surely you cannot deny that Music Row at this point in time is not being utilized to its best and highest use? Many of the existing small labels and law firms will be gone within a few years imo, industry change will make this happen.  What will take these firms places? Will the dilapidated homes on Music Row be kept up? Will it become a walkable neighborhood instead of a thoroughfare between Vandy/Belmont and Demonbreun/40/65 as it is now?

 

I absolutely agree with you that Music Row isn't being utilized to its highest use. In fact, I was actually pleased with the proposed apartments on 16th Ave once they added the 7500 sq feet of retail and/or office space.  However, the reality is that apartments like Note 16, Artisan on 18th, and these proposed apartments probably aren't the highest use for Music Row either.  I envision Music Row being a place that preserves buildings that are culturally significant and redevelops lesser lots.  I think the Planning Commission was smart to place a moratorium on zoning changes until a study and plan has been implemented.  10 years from now no one will remember that zoning changes were held for a year, but they will absolutely appreciate a plan that makes Music Row the most distinctive neighborhood in Nashville. 

[barakat]

A Noshville employee says that the developer of the proposed apartment highrise on that property is working to acquire the JJ's market building for an expanded project.  I guess that isn't surprising, but I would consider that another loss.

[volsfanwill]

I agree, to me , JJs was teh first place in downtown (im talking from the franklin perspective) that I came downtown. there and lucy's.   lots of memories there. I personally was hoping JJ's was going to stay. to mix up the neighborhood that is clearly going high rise.

[captainwjm]

Fyi, JJs is owned by same Korean fellow who also owns Bobby's Dairy Dip. Would not expect much nostalga from the owner.

[titanhog]

My question is when does Virginia's Market (Division and 18th) sell and something replace that spot?  I don't know if the land is large enough for much...but maybe?

 

Edited February 15, 2015 by titanhog

[MLBrumby]

Fyi, JJs is owned by same Korean fellow who also owns Bobby's Dairy Dip. Would not expect much nostalga from the owner.

 

 

JJ's is owned by a Nashville native named Won Choi who owns several other buildings of historic value in town, including the first Federal Reserve building downtown.  He is a shrewd real estate investor who inherited JJs, then bought several properties in town of historical significance. He bought a building recently that was proposed for a hotel that he was to be a joint investor with, but the deal fell through.  I heard it was a group affiliated with Brown Hotels (??).  I am not sure who the Brown hotel people are, possibly the people behind the 21c hotel. I heard it was the "Branstetter Building"? 

 

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/real-estate/2014/11/20/nashville-investor-buys-downtown-office-building/70029450/

Edited February 15, 2015 by MLBrumby

[12Mouth]

JJ's is owned by a Nashville native named Won Choi who owns several other buildings of historic value in town, including the first Federal Reserve building downtown. He is a shrewd real estate investor who inherited JJs, then bought several properties in town of historical significance. He bought a building recently that was proposed for a hotel that he was to be a joint investor with, but the deal fell through. I heard it was a group affiliated with Brown Hotels (??). I am not sure who the Brown hotel people are, possibly the people behind the 21c hotel. I heard it was the "Branstetter Building"?

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/real-estate/2014/11/20/nashville-investor-buys-downtown-office-building/70029450/

Wrong JJ's. Choi owns JJ's bistro, which is nowhere near here. Sam Huh owns the market and Bobby's. Great guy.

[smeagolsfree]

A Noshville employee says that the developer of the proposed apartment highrise on that property is working to acquire the JJ's market building for an expanded project.  I guess that isn't surprising, but I would consider that another loss.

I heard that a while back when I was there. Interestingly, there are utility markings in the alley behind JJ's.

[smeagolsfree]

JJ's is owned by a Nashville native named Won Choi who owns several other buildings of historic value in town, including the first Federal Reserve building downtown.  He is a shrewd real estate investor who inherited JJs, then bought several properties in town of historical significance. He bought a building recently that was proposed for a hotel that he was to be a joint investor with, but the deal fell through.  I heard it was a group affiliated with Brown Hotels (??).  I am not sure who the Brown hotel people are, possibly the people behind the 21c hotel. I heard it was the "Branstetter Building"? 

 

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/real-estate/2014/11/20/nashville-investor-buys-downtown-office-building/70029450/

As far as this building goes, there have been utility markings on both sides of the 21c and the building recently sold. It would be interesting if 21c expanded their project.

[smeagolsfree]

A good read critical of the First Bank building on West End.

https://www.nashvillepost.com/blogs/postbusiness/2015/2/16/is_the_future_firstbank_building_suitable_for_west_end

[Justiceham]

Not appropriate for that site at all. I can't believe stuff like the Cook Out and this are still allowed in the same suburban style layout. Hideous.

[Vrtigo]

I imagine the Cook Out next door had a pretty easy time making it through because of the preexisting Arby's structure that they took over, rather than starting from scratch.

[MLBrumby]

I have said this before... As long as there is an unutilized lot with an enormous pit on it.... and car lots with aisles and aisles of Chevies and Toyotas... and McDonalds and Wendy's and Taco Bell and Checkers with wide parking lots in front... and banks with drive thrus... and surface lots... then West End is not... and will not be Nashville's "Grand Boulevard".  The way things are at present, Broadway, Division, and Demonbreun will get there before West End ever does.  I think West End is mostly unsightly between the Gulch (okay that's B'way) and 31st with just a handful of exceptions. With its potential to look great with Vandy, old Cathedrals, Centennial Park, and a few other classic building, it's shameful how short it falls from that potential.  

[donNdonelson2]

Ah, but sometimes I long for the bygone days of West End glory with the Flaming Steer Steakhouse and its Vegas style flashing neon sign. For a kid from the boonies, THAT was big city styling!!! (Best I recall, that was at the NW corner of either 18th or 19th & WEA.)

[BnaBreaker]

Not appropriate for that site at all. I can't believe stuff like the Cook Out and this are still allowed in the same suburban style layout. Hideous.

 

Aren't there overlays for that area?  Or perhaps there is an overlay but it's just one with weak language that only requires a portion of the building address a sidewalk?

[captainwjm]

Overlays are worthless, the planning commission rolls over anytime a developer wants something different. The only hope is that your council member will oppose the project in the council.