Inside 440 - Berry Hill, Midtown, Vanderbilt, 12S, WeHo, Fairgrounds, etc.

[BnaBreaker]

What chances do you give this project of becoming reality?  And what about the twin-tower two blocks up Broadway?  

Just imagining for moment, if those buildings are built along the north side of B'way... that will be quite a canyon from Skyhouse all the way down to Aertsen... and even very urban all the way past Vandy (especially when the Children's Hospital expansion is built all the way to 21st.  

It's exciting to think about.  It'll be quite an impressive urban scene from afar, though I still think there is a lot of work to be done at street level actually transforming it into a cohesive, connected, pedestrian friendly urban environment. 

[smeagolsfree]

I think the SP has been approved. He has spent around 6 million on the land and all parties are on a month to month according to the horse himself. He has a good team, so I will put this around 60% right now, but it seems to have stronger legs than I first thought.

A lease can be bought out or they can just buy the business outright which could have been cheaper. I happen to know that has happened on an upcoming project.

 

As far as the twin tower project goes, as far as I know it's moving forward and supposed to start after the first of the year. That's the talk, but how many more hotels can we support. One of the partners has deep pockets, so that may bode well for it.

[RonCamp]

Just imagining for moment, if those buildings are built along the north side of B'way... that will be quite a canyon from Skyhouse all the way down to Aertsen... and even very urban all the way past Vandy (especially when the Children's Hospital expansion is built all the way to 21st.  

Is the Children's Hospital expansion all the way to 21st (I assume this would be on the surface lots and Mapco across the street from Sportsman's) definitely happening?  If anyone knows anything more please share.  

Would be great to see some density there, though hopefully the ground floor along 21st would include retail and a better streetscape than what most of the hospital has along 21st.  

[rookzie]

No doubt, it's become smouldering embers below the radar, and I have no idea on any details of ownership vs current leasing agreements.  One thing for certain though is that 21st - US-431 in general needs some serious attention now on planning alternate mobility options for the not-too-distant future, to accommodate such desireable density.
-==-

Edited August 13, 2015 by rookzie

[Paramount747]

All the more reason to have the AMP, but that is a dead issue now.

[MidTenn1]

What chances do you give this project of becoming reality?  And what about the twin-tower two blocks up Broadway?  

Just imagining for moment, if those buildings are built along the north side of B'way... that will be quite a canyon from Skyhouse all the way down to Aertsen... and even very urban all the way past Vandy (especially when the Children's Hospital expansion is built all the way to 21st.  

Something like this? Again, a crude representation, but fun to look at. The eighteen story Palmer Plaza and the Elmington Capital 22 Story Apartment is almost completely hidden in this view.

 

[smeagolsfree]

Is the Children's Hospital expansion all the way to 21st (I assume this would be on the surface lots and Mapco across the street from Sportsman's) definitely happening?  If anyone knows anything more please share.  

Would be great to see some density there, though hopefully the ground floor along 21st would include retail and a better streetscape than what most of the hospital has along 21st.  

The CH is just going to be an addition to the top of the building. At one point, I had heard there were plans for a Women's Hospital to go on the corner of Pierce and 21st and tha would include the Mapco site. Plans for that are on indefinite hold from what I have heard.

[MidTenn1]

A different view of the Element at Music Row that I hadn't seen before....

 

[CenterHill]

Interesting quote from the owner of Sam's about whether to reopen his Hillsboro Village location.   He's referring to the building Sam's is in and the adjacent building that formerly housed Boscos.   

 http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2015/8/17/sams_unlikely_to_reopen_in_hillsboro_village

"Developers really want that property, and the owners lined up the two leases to expire at the same time about five years ago,” Thomas told the Scene’s Chris Chamberlain regarding the Hillsboro Village buildings. “We're really up in the air about reopening Sam's, and our lease converts to month-to-month in January. I haven't seen any formal development plans go in front of the [Metro Planning Commission, but I know that they want [a project similar to the Acklen Flats mixed-used building] next door."

 

[samsonh]

Interesting quote from the owner of Sam's about whether to reopen his Hillsboro Village location.   He's referring to the building Sam's is in and the adjacent building that formerly housed Boscos.   

 http://www.nashvillepost.com/news/2015/8/17/sams_unlikely_to_reopen_in_hillsboro_village

Good. Sam's was terrible and if he had invested in his property at all it would probably be a lot more profitable for the landlord to keep it open(I am assuming they had a revenue share lease). Another Acklen type project would be very much welcomed by this neighbor.

 

 

[CenterHill]

But I wouldn't want to see any more of the existing HB village buildings lost.    The Boscos building is one of more unique structures in midtown.  

. 

[Nathan_in_DC]

Sam's closed?! I actually really liked that place. Cheap beers, unpretentious place to watch a game or just have a drink. And the brewery aspect seemed like it'd help bring it to a new level. The shop in the old Bosco's space was pretty cool, too.

My day just got rained on.

[samsonh]

Agreed, however those buildings are aging quite rapidly. If instead of the current layout with a large surface lot in the back, you were to give me a a nice brick three story building that offers retail/restaurants and underground parking plus 100-130 apartments above, I would jump on that.

[Nathan_in_DC]

They are aging, but I don't think they should be torn down. I think the surface lot could be redeveloped, but having a single, whole-block building there would cause the area to lose its identity and charm.

Nashville needs more neighborhoods like Hillsboro Village, and there are many other blocks that should be redeveloped before this lively stretch of 21st. I'd be quite heartbroken if it was torn down.

[bigeasy]

 

Good. Sam's was terrible and if he had invested in his property at all it would probably be a lot more profitable for the landlord to keep it open(I am assuming they had a revenue share lease). Another Acklen type project would be very much welcomed by this neighbor.

 

 

Are you sure you went to the right place?? That place is/was great!

[samsonh]

Are you sure you went to the right place?? That place is/was great!

I went there far too much. What part was great? Poor service because the waitresses made zero money because it was empty 75% of the time, plastic glasses for beers, mediocre bar food, terrible restrooms that occasionally overflowed because of poor sewer design, etc.

People hate change, even when the change will almost certainly be better.

 

Also, this is what the 3rd fire in ten years? That strikes me as poor kitchen maintenance as well.

Edited August 17, 2015 by samsonh

[Nathan_in_DC]

I certainly don't hate change, but I do hate change if it involves tearing down a stretch of independent businesses in a dense, walkable neighborhood that has a unique identity. This is the sort of neighborhood we should be fighting to save and expand, not tear down and replace. If one building has irreparable sewers and kitchens, then remodel that building, don't tear down the whole block. If you want a three story brick apartment with retail, put it on the northwest corner of 21st and Wedgewood where the bank and parking lot is, not in existing high-density commercial building stock.

In this case, change is most certainly not better if involves gutting the block.

[CenterHill]

I certainly don't hate change, but I do hate change if it involves tearing down a stretch of independent businesses in a dense, walkable neighborhood that has a unique identity. This is the sort of neighborhood we should be fighting to save and expand, not tear down and replace. If one building has irreparable sewers and kitchens, then remodel that building, don't tear down the whole block. If you want a three story brick apartment with retail, put it on the northwest corner of 21st and Wedgewood where the bank and parking lot is, not in existing high-density commercial building stock.

In this case, change is most certainly not better if involves gutting the block.

Totally agree.     The reason I posted that quote from the article was the reference to the possibility of losing more of Hillsboro Village to redevelopment.   First I'd heard of it.     

[samsonh]

I certainly don't hate change, but I do hate change if it involves tearing down a stretch of independent businesses in a dense, walkable neighborhood that has a unique identity. This is the sort of neighborhood we should be fighting to save and expand, not tear down and replace. If one building has irreparable sewers and kitchens, then remodel that building, don't tear down the whole block. If you want a three story brick apartment with retail, put it on the northwest corner of 21st and Wedgewood where the bank and parking lot is, not in existing high-density commercial building stock.

In this case, change is most certainly not better if involves gutting the block.

This block is three businesses, two of which are going out of business, the third of which is an absurdly priced boutique that I have no idea how it stays in business. Sams is more chain than anything else, with little personality or redeeming traits. This is a walkable neighborhood, one that I live in and have for years. It is possible to do something much better with this lot while maintaining the character of the surrounding buildings. Acklen is a perfect example of this. With Acklen you added businesses to the neighborhood, and you added people.

[Nathan_in_DC]

I suppose we're just going to have to agree to disagree about this little segment of street frontage...

[Neigeville2]

It's great that the new building has apartments (and Jeni's) but it doesn't have the quirky charm of the lost buildings (Nashville has very little of this kind of interesting stuff that the streets of Chicago and NYC are just lined with) and that light colored brick is absolutely heinous.  I thought the design looked good but you never know until you see the actual materials.

[Nashville Cliff]

I would hope any potential developers would understand the importance of distinctive buildings like the one Bosco's used to be in to character of an area and not tear it down.  If everything is just another shiny, piece of modern "architecture," then nothing is distinctive.  Nashville's recent track record does not give me much solace.  

[nashvillwill]

This is just my opinion and my own mind, but I find it dumbfounding that there are people who don't see these buildings as worth saving and that we as a society would let these building be razed with an "oh well" attitude.

[BnaBreaker]

This is just my opinion and my own mind, but I find it dumbfounding that there are people who don't see these buildings as worth saving and that we as a society would let these building be razed with an "oh well" attitude.

It truly feels like there are a lot of people in Nashville specifically who see old buildings like this almost as a nuisance that they're just waiting for an opportunity and/or excuse to get rid of, kind of how most of us see parking lots.  I don't understand this sentiment at all, and the argument that they should come down because 'they're old' and 'need repairs' is even more perplexing to me.  If that were a reason to demolish a building then most of the buildings in most cities in the world that don't exist in the sunbelt of the United States would have come down long ago.  Imagine what Paris (just one random example of countless others) would look like if every time they discovered an old building with sketchy plumbing, they just demolished it instead of simply fix the plumbing. 

That being said, I do understand the argument from a resident like samsonh who would benefit from increased amenities and residents, and I will say that whether or not a building is 'nice' enough to deserve preservation is a completely subjective one.  The Boscos building, in my opinion, absolutely deserves preservation, but the two that it shares the block with...I'm not sure I'd shed much of a tear if they came down and were replaced with something more dynamic. 

Edited August 18, 2015 by BnaBreaker

[PruneTracy]

The Boscos building, in my opinion, absolutely deserves preservation, but the two that it shares the block with...I'm not sure I'd shed much of a tear if they came down and were replaced with something more dynamic. 

The Boscos building is also two stories throughout; the other two aren't. There's plenty of room for a development on that block that retains the Boscos building and a three- or four-story building doesn't make the difference in scale ridiculous like the Aertson is doing to Mellow Mushroom twelve blocks up.

I'd be curious to know what the history is behind all three buildings.