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CBD/SoBro/RutledgeHill/Rolling Mill Hill Projects

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2 hours ago, dReAmWiELdEr said:

Couldn't they seek a variance?

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I'm not sure if they can, being that close to Broadway.  Then again...it didn't stop Batman from going super tall.

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On 11/12/2019 at 3:43 PM, Jamie Hall said:

Should've kept the Mexican restaurant and sacrificed the Sbarro across the street, if I had my druthers. But Guy's place should be a popular addition to that section of Second Avenue.

Or gone into the long-empty McFadden's spot.

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19 hours ago, donNdonelson2 said:

The number of unsavory characters hanging around in those two establishments caused me to select other outlets for speedy downtown dining.  Certainly I was not alone in making that choice.  CBD has lost two McDonalds, Wendy’s, and Burger King in the last coupe of decades. The operation of cheap fast food outlets in this area might be more problematic than profitable.

Why would it be more problematic than profitable?  Fast chains like McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King and even KFC and Popeye's have thrived in CBD's across this country for decades.  I've been in plenty of those chain's locations in places like New York, Philly, DC, Chicago, LA, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Dallas, Houston, Denver, St. Louis, Jersey City, Newark, Toronto, Vancouver, Atlanta, and I could continue naming many more.  Why would being in Nashville's CBD be any different?  Did those locations in the CBD in Nashville close due to issues associated with "unsavory characters" (whatever that is), or due to other forces such as development, expiring leases leading to competition for their locations, selling of the properties they were in, etc?

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31 minutes ago, PillowTalk4 said:

Why would it be more problematic than profitable?  Fast chains like McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King and even KFC and Popeye's have thrived in CBD's across this country for decades.  I've been in plenty of those chain's locations in places like New York, Philly, DC, Chicago, LA, San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, Portland, Dallas, Houston, Denver, St. Louis, Jersey City, Newark, Toronto, Vancouver, Atlanta, and I could continue naming many more.  Why would being in Nashville's CBD be any different?  Did those locations in the CBD in Nashville close due to issues associated with "unsavory characters" (whatever that is), or due to other forces such as development, expiring leases leading to competition for their locations, selling of the properties they were in, etc?

Unsavory characters may be the homeless who tended to camp out in those locations. Today it's often Starbucks. I'm sorry, but they often stink up the places to the point of it not being worth going in. It's hard to kick them out as long as they nurse a drink a kindly soul has bought them. 

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29 minutes ago, PillowTalk4 said:

Why would it be more problematic than profitable?  Fast chains like McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King and even KFC and Popeye's have thrived in CBD's across this country for decades. 

I wondered that myself. I've been in fast-food joints in several metro CBDs, and of course they all attract a wide-ranging cast of characters from businessmen to the homeless, but that's to be expected. It would seem that a McDonald's or other fast-food spot would thrive 24/7 in downtown Nashville -- surely it would generate cash flow and afford those pricey leases easier than some of our existing boot shops and candy stores.

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10 minutes ago, Jamie Hall said:

I wondered that myself. I've been in fast-food joints in several metro CBDs, and of course they all attract a wide-ranging cast of characters from businessmen to the homeless, but that's to be expected. It would seem that a McDonald's or other fast-food spot would thrive 24/7 in downtown Nashville -- surely it would generate cash flow and afford those pricey leases easier than some of our existing boot shops and candy stores.

I agree that fast food could do well in the CBD, but where is the question. I don't think the city wants chains on Broadway and most hotels don't want them, the few new office buildings want higher end offerings. I think that 5th & Broad will dump so many new food offerings onto the market that spots might open up in older buildings.

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If McDonalds COULD be profitable in a downtown Nashville location, it WOULD be here...and it may be that a location will return some day. But somebody put a lot of money into building that location at 2nd & Commerce special for a McD’s and it apparently wasn’t successful!

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Metropolitan Wines & Premium Spirits is building-out the interior of 529 4th Ave. South with a $53,000 permit for a new location in SoBro.  It was formerly Volvapor Vapor Shop.

More behind the Nashville Post paywall here:

https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/food-business/article/21097585/work-to-begin-on-sobro-wine-shop

Screen Shot 2019-11-14 at 3.05.58 PM.png

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23 hours ago, Nash_12South said:

I agree that fast food could do well in the CBD, but where is the question. I don't think the city wants chains on Broadway and most hotels don't want them, the few new office buildings want higher end offerings. I think that 5th & Broad will dump so many new food offerings onto the market that spots might open up in older buildings.

If the city and developers want the CBD to be a live, work and play area, they need to get on board with offering a variety of options (including McDonald's, BK's, Wendy's) for people living and working  in the CBD and those visiting it.  With all the hotels and shops in the CBD, you need a mix of places for both employees and visitors to choose from.  You can't expect low end wage earners to lunch at higher end offerings.  You really shouldn't anticipate that everyone living in the CBD wants to spend more on high end fast food than they would at one of the more common fast food chains.  Even Time Square in NYC has McDonald's.  Not to mention every other food chain you can imagine in the area and beyond (including local chains like Nathan's Hotdogs).   I'm by no means suggesting that Nashville's CBD become inundated with national fast food chains.  But having them should be an option for all who live, work and play in the CBD.

 

I do agree that older buildings may become the ideal locations for some of the national food chains.  You see that happening in a lot of cities.  In fact the last time I was in NYC, I noticed a new McDonald's and a Chick-fil-a in spots that I don't recall seeing before in buildings that previously had retail or offices.  The McDonald's is basically a take out, because other than a few stools for a window ledge, there didn't seem to be anywhere else to sit.  I didn't go in, so I don't know if they occupied space on the floor above.

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On 11/15/2019 at 3:51 PM, PillowTalk4 said:

If the city and developers want the CBD to be a live, work and play area, they need to get on board with offering a variety of options (including McDonald's, BK's, Wendy's) for people living and working  in the CBD and those visiting it.  With all the hotels and shops in the CBD, you need a mix of places for both employees and visitors to choose from.  You can't expect low end wage earners to lunch at higher end offerings.  You really shouldn't anticipate that everyone living in the CBD wants to spend more on high end fast food than they would at one of the more common fast food chains.  Even Time Square in NYC has McDonald's.  Not to mention every other food chain you can imagine in the area and beyond (including local chains like Nathan's Hotdogs).   I'm by no means suggesting that Nashville's CBD become inundated with national fast food chains.  But having them should be an option for all who live, work and play in the CBD.

 

I do agree that older buildings may become the ideal locations for some of the national food chains.  You see that happening in a lot of cities.  In fact the last time I was in NYC, I noticed a new McDonald's and a Chick-fil-a in spots that I don't recall seeing before in buildings that previously had retail or offices.  The McDonald's is basically a take out, because other than a few stools for a window ledge, there didn't seem to be anywhere else to sit.  I didn't go in, so I don't know if they occupied space on the floor above.

Agreed. Not everyone is inclined (or can afford) to eat every meal at a boutique burger or BBQ restaurant. Those visiting on a budget would likely appreciate more inexpensive lunch options, from more food carts (a la the falafel or hot dog carts of my old town of Philadelphia), to national fast-food chains, to more local-ish fast-food chains (thinking stuff like Cook Out, or even a Krystal). As well as those who are at work who weren't able to pack a lunch that day but don't want to spend big. There are a few places to go, like Arnold's or Varallo's, but there could certainly be more. And catering more to the take-out crowd, with a few tables with stools to cater to short-term eaters (but discouraging loitering), can help prevent them from becoming hobo hotels.

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Pretty surprised that only 9 buildings with 400k s.f. .... anyone here know if that will change with broad west or one22one?

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3 hours ago, AronG said:

Of all the development choices Nashville is making right now, good and bad, the huge amount of public money MDHA keeps pouring into parking garages is the stupidest self-inflicted wound. They've already subsidized a giant 1,000-car lot under the peabody building (presumably a big part of why they accepted such an un-ambitious project). Now they're going to foot the bill for 400 more a block away? Why in the world is this something public money should be involved in?  It's not just wasteful, it's worse than lighting the money on fire. Dumping tens of millions of public dollars into parking completely distorts the market value of downtown space dedicated to parking, destroying the natural incentives that would otherwise motivate people to walk/bike, or take transit into and around downtown. We will never develop an urban ecosystem of employers and retailers that target non-drivers if we keep throwing tens of millions of dollars into parking garages every year. If businesses want to cater to drivers, that's totally fine, but why in the world does it make sense for metro to provide parking for them as a public service when we can barely pay for schools and sidewalks?

This times a thousand. 

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Ranking of Downtown Nashville's 25 biggest office buildings from NBJ:
 
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732395778_ScreenShot2019-11-18at6_54_23AM.thumb.png.deb50a2619c28384852617d06ff7b811.png


The number of buildings listed as “A” is laughable. For example... Cummins Station is anything but Class A.

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18 hours ago, DeemonBruhn said:

 


The number of buildings listed as “A” is laughable. For example... Cummins Station is anything but Class A.

 

There is also an "A+" tier that the industry calls "trophy class". It would be interesting to see how many of these would be in that category. My guess would be Pinnacle, Bridgestone, 222, and maybe Gulch Crossing and/or 1201 Demonbreun. 

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7 minutes ago, Luvemtall said:

Hello everyone, first time poster. Been following for a few months. Anyway, I see this trail west site and I’m thinking. Wouldn’t this be a great spot for an 18 (maybe 20, with bonus ) story building , like the new Graduate Hotel. The design , with the brick work and the details would blend in nicely with the buildings on Broadway. 

Welcome to the forum, Luvemtall.  : )

Indeed, this site, as well as the adjoining sites (120 2nd Ave. South just to the north; and the 1/2 block site facing 1st Ave. South that has been rumored for a House of Blues concert hall/hotel) could all be combined with the Trail West lot for a substantial site.  The HOB proposal was supposedly going to be 4, 8, and 18 stories, and all done in brick to fit in with the historical overlay requirements for that area (no renderings have been available, and the development may be dead). 

Will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.

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1 hour ago, markhollin said:

Welcome to the forum, Luvemtall.  : )

Indeed, this site, as well as the adjoining sites (120 2nd Ave. South just to the north; and the 1/2 block site facing 1st Ave. South that has been rumored for a House of Blues concert hall/hotel) could all be combined with the Trail West lot for a substantial site.  The HOB proposal was supposedly going to be 4, 8, and 18 stories, and all done in brick to fit in with the historical overlay requirements for that area (no renderings have been available, and the development may be dead). 

Will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.

I'd love to see a tower similar to what Vanderbilt is building right now. 

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1 hour ago, Luvemtall said:

Hello everyone, first time poster. Been following for a few months. Anyway, I see this trail west site and I’m thinking. Wouldn’t this be a great spot for an 18 (maybe 20, with bonus ) story building , like the new Graduate Hotel. The design , with the brick work and the details would blend in nicely with the buildings on Broadway. 

I echo Mark in welcoming you to the forum. Please feel free to join us at the forum meets or the mini mets anytime!

As far as this property goes, I will take a wait and see approach.  Larry Papel and Mark Bloom own the site as well as one or two more on that block. They have the experience and the financial resources to develop what the want to develop or seek out a buyer or development partner such as Michael Hayes who is also a partner on certain endeavours. 

I think they could probably go 18 there since the lot fronting first was approved for that. I think they would have to build according to the historiv overlay that I am pretty sure that is in place there but not 100% certain.

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