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It is pretty much impossible to live in Nashville and not own a car. Job opportunities are pretty distributed, shopping is pretty distributed, and public transit is weak. So given everyone has to have a car, which I don't think is the case so much in some of the other cities cited, I think people expect parking.

Sorry, but I disagree with this.

I'll give you this; "Job opportunities are pretty distributed"

^That is entirely true. Now, granted, while it's not always possible to "live where you work", it is possible in many parts of Nashville. And while there may not be a super-wal-Kroger on every corner, it is possible to make 1 shopping trip per week. Public transit in Nashville isn't glamorous, but it is adequate in the inner-Briley loop. I'm not saying it's for everyone, but to say that it's "pretty much impossible" is not the truth. I should know, I've done it. Sure, rent costs more in the city vs. the burbs, but the quality of life pays for itself. Cost of vehicle=transit fees. Necessary cab rides for evenings out=cable tv bill. Time on bus=time in traffic. Lack of space=more time with neighbors. Again, it's not for everyone, but it is totally doable.

I'm just stating that while it may not be the "status quo" for Nashville, it's completely possible.

You would be surprised how much joy you can get from riding a bike and being self sufficient.

Having said that. It's absolutely convenient to have a car in Nashville. But my point is that not every family needs to be a 1 car per adult family. 1 car per family/family is pretty easy to obtain.

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Got a good shot of the downtown core today.   

Somewhat strange looking condo project featured in today's Nashville Post by William:  https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/development/residential-real-estate/article/21143024/fall-start-eyed-for-p

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Life without a car is certainly a possibility in Nashville, but only viable in in certain locales inside the TN-155 loop. You can do it, but you are very limited in where and when you can travel, which is unacceptable for most people.

 

I wouldn't quite go as far as saying it would be like living without electricity, but damn, it can't be too far from that.

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I actually thought it was relevant seeing how the whole discussion was about how parking several blocks away from your house (like they do in Chicago) is not a big deal. In a place like Chicago, that can be pretty dangerous. That can be dangerous anywhere. Especially for a women. basically all I was getting at was that parking several blocks away from your house sucks. It sucks in more ways than one. It's not about being spoiled, it's not about being lazy, or whatever, it just plain sucks. Period. Since Chicago was being used as an example, I thought I would use that as one of the many reasons why it is a less than ideal (or sucks) to park so far away from your house. If that's offensive to you or Bna or anyone else from Chicago somehow then my bad. I wasn't trying to take a cheap shot at Chicago or anything, but going back and reading my post I can see how it could come across that way. No harm intentended.

 

Edit: No matter how anyone wants to spin it, not being able to park at your house IS a huge inconvenience, and I'm sure all of those people not fortunate enough to be able to have that luxury would agree with me. It's not something people want just in Nashville, it's something people want anywhere. I'm sure if you asked anyone that has to park several blocks away from their house if they would like to park closer they would be all over it. That goes for people in Chicago or any city for that matter. It's got nothing to do with being spoiled, or laziness. It's all about convenience. Something every person wants.

 

:huh:  Yikes...I thought we were just talking about parking!  Are you sure you aren't one of those old ladies protesting the highrise in Green Hills?  haha...kidding.  Listen, I'm not offended in the least.  I just think that if you honestly believe that Chicago is just some vast, arctic ghetto where everyone sprints from place to place because they are terrified of being murdered, then I think you're long overdo for a trip to Chi-City my friend!  I'd give you a tour myself!  Every Chicagoan would acknowledge that the city's violent crime rate is a travesty and needs to be confronted, full force.  But...you do realize, don't you, that crime is not spread equally throughout the city?  Unfortunate as violent crime may be, the vast majority of it is generally concentrated within a handful of neighborhoods, and usually gang/drug related, as is the situation in most cities, including Nashville.

 

In regards to the topic at hand, you realize that I actually live in Chicago, right?  And that the vast majority of my friends and acquaintances are also Chicagoans?  This is my neighborhood: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Wicker_Park_Chicago_Damen_North_Milwaukee.JPG (actually, that's a few blocks away...I'm just a moron that doesn't know how to take screen shots on google streetview haha)...That being established, then, I suppose what I don't understand is why you, who's opinions of Chicago are clearly rooted in stereotype and hearsay, is trying to tell me, a Chicagoan, who lives in and works in and plays in and walks around in the city and experiences it every single day and spends the vast majority of his time around other Chicagoans, what it is that Chicagoans "prefer" and "like" and what it is that they find to be unpleasant or why you think that your subjective opinion is the concrete reality for everyone else, because, 'it just is, period.' 

 

Obviously most people value convenience to some degree.  You are correct on that, no doubt.  Certainly, people in Chicago, or most anywhere for that matter, when in search of a parking spot will generally take the parking spot that is closest to their destination.  Perhaps though, just perhaps, some just don't value convenience quite as highly as you.  Perhaps some aren't willing to have the entire fabric of their neighborhoods mutilated by parking lots and parking garages on every corner just so they won't have to walk a few hundred feet.  Perhaps some don't want or expect their city to focus it's entire development strategy around making sure people can get indoors from their cars as quickly as possible, because 'there are murderers out there, and walking sucks.'  Just food for thought.  I'm not saying that Nashville should be exactly like Chicago.  I'm just saying that maybe Nashville could learn a few things from places like it.  Also, just because Chicago living is out of your personal comfort zone, it doesn't mean that the people that live here do so reluctantly or because they have no other options.  Capiche?  :good:

 

That being said...IT'S FREAKIN' COLD HERE TONIGHT!!!  :cold:  hahaha

Edited by BnaBreaker
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:huh:  Yikes...I thought we were just talking about parking!  Are you sure you aren't one of those old ladies protesting the highrise in Green Hills?  haha...kidding. Listen, I'm not offended in the least.  I just think that if you honestly believe that Chicago is just some vast, arctic ghetto where everyone sprints from place to place because they are terrified of being murdered, then I think you're long overdo for a trip to Chi-City my friend!  I'd give you a tour myself!  Every Chicagoan would acknowledge that the city's violent crime rate is a travesty and needs to be confronted, full force.  But...you do realize, don't you, that crime is not spread equally throughout the city?  Unfortunate as violent crime may be, the vast majority of it is generally concentrated within a handful of neighborhoods, and usually gang/drug related, as is the situation in most cities, including Nashville.

 

In regards to the topic at hand, you realize that I actually live in Chicago, right?  And that the vast majority of my friends and acquaintances are also Chicagoans?  This is my neighborhood: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Wicker_Park_Chicago_Damen_North_Milwaukee.JPG (actually, that's a few blocks away...I'm just a moron that doesn't know how to take screen shots on google streetview haha)...That being established, then, I suppose what I don't understand is why you, who's opinions of Chicago are clearly rooted in stereotype and hearsay, is trying to tell me, a Chicagoan, who lives in and works in and plays in and walks around in the city and experiences it every single day and spends the vast majority of his time around other Chicagoans, what it is that Chicagoans "prefer" and "like" and what it is that they find to be unpleasant or why you think that your subjective opinion is the concrete reality for everyone else, because, 'it just is, period.' 

 

Obviously most people value convenience to some degree.  You are correct on that, no doubt.  Certainly, people in Chicago, or most anywhere for that matter, when in search of a parking spot will generally take the parking spot that is closest to their destination.  Perhaps though, just perhaps, some just don't value convenience quite as highly as you.  Perhaps some aren't willing to have the entire fabric of their neighborhoods mutilated by parking lots and parking garages on every corner just so they won't have to walk a few hundred feet.  Perhaps some don't want or expect their city to focus it's entire development strategy around making sure people can get indoors from their cars as quickly as possible, because 'there are murderers out there, and walking sucks.'  Just food for thought.  I'm not saying that Nashville should be exactly like Chicago.  I'm just saying that maybe Nashville could learn a few things from places like it.  Also, just because Chicago living is out of your personal comfort zone, it doesn't mean that the people that live here do so reluctantly or because they have no other options.  Capiche?  :good:

 

That being said...IT'S FREAKIN' COLD HERE TONIGHT!!!  :cold:  hahaha

Lol! That's funny! I probably deserved that though. I had actually went back to edit that negative part out about Chicago as I realized it was a little uncalled for, but ark had already quoted it. Classless on my part. My apologies.

 

As for the rest of your post, I'll just take your word for it that most people in Chicago prefer to not to be able to park at their house, and it's not because they don't have any other option.

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Lol! That's funny! I probably deserved that though. I had actually went back to edit that negative part out about Chicago as I realized it was a little uncalled for, but ark had already quoted it. Classless on my part. My apologies.

 

As for the rest of your post, I'll just take your word for it that most people in Chicago prefer to not to be able to park at their house, and it's not because they don't have any other option.

 

No need for apology...I just like to help soften Chicago's, sometimes well earned, rough image whenever I can.  Seriously though, if you ever make it up here any time, let me know if you'd like a personal tour!  The beer is on me!  haha

 

And as for the parking, like I said, it's not that people prefer to park further from their house than not.  Most people are able to park very close to their house because of the street parking restrictions on residential streets, and that's assuming they can't actually park AT their place in the form of a rear garage or space that they have access to via a rear alleyway.  It's just that the cost to the community for what it would take to achieve having dedicated private parking for every home and business is not worth it to most people I know, at least.  They'd rather have the close-knit, walkable neighborhoods with urban fabric in-tact, and if that means they have to walk a little bit, then so be it.  And I think that is the going attitude in a great many cities, not just Chicago. 

 

Actually, there are neighborhoods here that have more than enough parking, and generally speaking, the more parking lots there are the more run down a neighborhood tends to be, because due to the parking, there are more holes punched into the urban fabric, which make it a less desirable place to be. 

Edited by BnaBreaker
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No need for apology...I just like to help soften Chicago's, sometimes well earned, rough image whenever I can.  Seriously though, if you ever make it up here any time, let me know if you'd like a personal tour!  The beer is on me!  haha

 

And as for the parking, like I said, it's not that people prefer to park further from their house than not.  Most people are able to park very close to their house because of the street parking restrictions on residential streets, and that's assuming they can't actually park AT their place in the form of a rear garage or space that they have access to via a rear alleyway.  It's just that the cost to the community for what it would take to achieve having dedicated private parking for every home and business is not worth it to most people I know, at least.  They'd rather have the close-knit, walkable neighborhoods with urban fabric in-tact, and if that means they have to walk a little bit, then so be it.  And I think that is the going attitude in a great many cities, not just Chicago. 

 

Actually, there are neighborhoods here that have more than enough parking, and generally speaking, the more parking lots there are the more run down a neighborhood tends to be, because due to the parking, there are more holes punched into the urban fabric, which make it a less desirable place to be. 

I'll definitely let you know if I'm heading up that way anytime soon. I've been there several times actually. My wife grew up in Chicago (the Southside is what she always says) and her father still lives there. He lives close to the Midway airport is all I know. Whenever he picks us up and drops us off at the airport it seem's to be about a 10 minute drive. My wife went to Bogen high school if that rings a bell at all. (not sure if I'm spelling it correctly)

 

Anyway's, her father actually has a garage at his house (a small one) that is in the backyard off of an alley. It's not attached or anything but I know he is always saying that he is glad he has one. He has two cars and several motorcycle's and they all can't fit into the garage so he has to park one of the cars out on the street in front of his house. It's funny because everytime we go somewhere and come back he's alway's cussing about how his neighbors are taking his spots in front of his house lol!

 

I got a bunch of picture's I took from a few years ago, maybe I'll post some up when I get home tonight. I got some good skyline shots from the Willis tower.

 

Here you go...I have tons of pictures but I only picked out a handful of the skyline ones.

 

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009055_zpsf7b669ed.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009053_zps80396879.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009051_zps2d49f58d.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009050_zpsea86603b.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009040_zps3a02e120.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009024_zps52a88c5c.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009022_zpsa06437ab.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009018_zps396e9a39.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009011_zpsd04d167f.jpg

http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz252/mirydi/ChicagoJan242009004_zpsb2f01d38.jpg

 

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As far as parking, I think Nashville is positioned to not make some of the same mistakes that have been made in cities like Chicago and Atlanta. Nashville is growing at the right time and can learn from other cities and not make some of the same mistakes.

What mistakes do you speak of? I'm asking because I'm not sure of any particular examples that we can learn from, but I'm sure they are out there.

Chicago, and similar older cities, were cities before the automobile. Much of that situation is an adaptation. Atlanta on the other hand, came of age with the car. I'm sure we can learn a lot from that town.

Perhaps if you can point out some of these mistakes, we can discuss.

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As far as mistakes that Nashville has made, I think we can all agree on one example. The two mid rise office buildings of the state (by the bicentennial mall entrance) that were built without parking was a mistake.

The zoning laws (at the time), that required the West End midrise (with the bookstore, across from centennial park) to have street front parking, was a mistake.

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What mistakes do you speak of? I'm asking because I'm not sure of any particular examples that we can learn from, but I'm sure they are out there.

Chicago, and similar older cities, were cities before the automobile. Much of that situation is an adaptation. Atlanta on the other hand, came of age with the car. I'm sure we can learn a lot from that town.

Perhaps if you can point out some of these mistakes, we can discuss.

 

A Chicago mistake I'm aware of:  there is a large amount of recent high rise housing in downtown Chicago but what I've seen are essentially vertical suburbs:  the buildings are set back a bit from the street, no retail or restaurant space on the ground and nothing adjacent in terms of food/drink/entertainment. 

 

I visited someone in one of these buildings and when it was time for the Indian buffet a few blocks up the street we took the elevator to the parking and drove the few hundred yards to the restaurant.  The ground floor of this building is an aquarium housing a bored security/concierge person.  There's nothing keeping you from walking except that psychological effect of empty streets, laziness, and habit, all forces stronger than reason.

 

That was north and a ways from the lake, but once when I passed thru Chicago recently I had time to kill and strolled around the near south near the lake and found the same thing.  They must have to walk a half mile for a cup of coffee.

 

I think Nashville's complex building requirements already avoid most or all of this, we seem to do high rise housing pretty well although we have yet to develop a system of corner shops which Germantown and the Gulch obviously need.

 

Another mistake Chicago has made in my opinion is putting trains in highway rights of way.  The platform is already a 10 minute walk to/from the nearest possible destination.  Obviously it's cheaper, but it reduces the usefulness.  I've often heard this system admired by drivers who don't use public transportation.  (I like elevated trains personally, I like the way they look although I guess that would be a hard sell in Green Hills where they would mar the view of the strip malls.)  Even if we end up with nothing but BRT lite on West End, Charlotte, Nolensville, etc. it would be way better than a train running up the interstate.

 

The old neighborhoods in Chicago are great with their three-flats and courtyard apartments, sidewalks, shopping within a few blocks of housing, etc.  But much of suburban Chicago, even the most recent, is remarkably high density but still car dependent.

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Those are good examples of bad urban design and excellent points. But, specific to parking, how do they play into a "learning experience" for Nashville (other than the given; don't strictly zone areas for one type of use).

 

I guess my reply wasn't very focused on parking, except in the general sense that the old neighborhoods function well with very little parking actually available.  Most households in older parts of Chicago seem to only own one car, many own none, whereas if you can't walk (or if there's no center so destinations are scattered) you've got about 3 times as many cars to park because everyone who can drive has to.

 

It occurs to me that from Atlanta we can learn not to build a big stadium cut off from neighborhoods by Interstates and huge sheets of surface parking, but, oops, we already did that.  It seems obvious that the Braves stadium could never became an integral part of a vital neighborhood the way Wrigley Field is.  I can't imagine the Cubs moving to the suburbs.  Wrigley itself hardly has any parking-the Cubs website  ( http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/chc/ballpark/transportation/index.jsp ) informs us:

 

Cubs fans are strongly encouraged to use public transportation going to and from Cubs games.

 

It looks to me like the Sounds stadium proposal will have structured parking and no surface lots, which is a good thing.  I'd like to see the LP field area develop like a bigger version of that, with intense mixed use development on the East Bank, and flocks of commuters walking over the pedestrian bridge in the morning and evening.

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Developers of the proposed Westin (400 rooms and 30+ stories) have finalized the purchase of the site.  There is a connection to this group and the investors who bought the Wells Fargo building to convert possibly to a hotel or condos. 

 

From the Tennessean today...  http://www.tennessean.com/article/20131114/BUSINESS/311140090

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The long vacant Acme building will be....drumroll...another restaurant/bar!  Hopefully it will be something special and not just a run of the mill place.

 

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20131114/BUSINESS01/311140033/Long-vacant-Acme-Feed-site-house-restaurant-bar-music-venue

 

Hopefully... that is a lot of money for a renovation!!  It is Tom Morales, who is a proven restauranteur... and manages the Southern, which was just named the Best New Restaurant in the country. 

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Hopefully... that is a lot of money for a renovation!!  It is Tom Morales, who is a proven restauranteur... and manages the Southern, which was just named the Best New Restaurant in the country. 

 

I saw that, and it does make me feel a little better about what it may become.  There have been some crappy establishments on Broadway over the years.  Hopefully it will add some class to the place.

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Has a rendering been released for the proposed Westin?

 

 

Developers of the proposed Westin (400 rooms and 30+ stories) have finalized the purchase of the site.  There is a connection to this group and the investors who bought the Wells Fargo building to convert possibly to a hotel or condos. 

 

From the Tennessean today...  http://www.tennessean.com/article/20131114/BUSINESS/311140090

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In the Nashville Post today there are two articles by WW behind the firewall that I'd be interested in reading more about.  One is about a new project in Germantown called "Gramercy" (after NYC's Gramercy Park, I guess), and the other is about Giarratanna's plans for a "micro-housing" apartment complex in Nashville, which appears to have a rendering included.  Anyone have access?

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