Davidson East: East Nashville, Inglewood, Madison, Donelson, Hermitage, Old Hickory

[WebberThomas4]

@FatherLand have you heard anything about a music studio moving into the old church at 1700 Fatherland? It looks like a permit valued at $100,000 was issued on Friday. 

[FatherLand]

12 minutes ago, WebberThomas4 said:

@FatherLand have you heard anything about a music studio moving into the old church at 1700 Fatherland? It looks like a permit valued at $100,000 was issued on Friday. 

Wow I absolutely have not. Not sure what I think about this one. The community surrounding this building is VERY concerned with its use. The building did sell a few months ago, I didn’t know that until I saw the recent interior demo and looked it up. 

[FatherLand]

23 minutes ago, WebberThomas4 said:

@FatherLand have you heard anything about a music studio moving into the old church at 1700 Fatherland? It looks like a permit valued at $100,000 was issued on Friday. 

A few initial thoughts on this: 

1) My first reaction was "OH HELL NO"...Imagine the noise! I hear/read horror stories about loud bands as neighbors

2) Then I thought...hmm, I know nothing about music recording or studios...and quite possibly, a true production studio would have world class soundproofing. 

3) Then I looked at the website for Q Prime Artist management and realized they manage some truly famous musicians and bands...and thought, wow, how amazing to periodically have famous musicians casually strolling by our house and into a studio, and walking to The Post for a coffee...this could be amazing! 

4) And I thought some more, and realized it might be a good fit...one of the big variables in the past has been parking...for a music studio, the parking needs are much smaller than a hotel and/or bar/restaurant. Much less comings and goings at night. 

I'm pro-development by default, and I liked the previous idea of a restaurant/bar/hotel. And I CANNOT WAIT for this building to receive some TLC. It's been an eyesore year...after year...after year. 

So maybe on second thought...this recording studio is a great idea. I dont know yet. 

[smeagolsfree]

3 hours ago, WebberThomas4 said:

@FatherLand have you heard anything about a music studio moving into the old church at 1700 Fatherland? It looks like a permit valued at $100,000 was issued on Friday. 

I saw the permit this morning too and we are trying to run the details down.

[FatherLand]

1 minute ago, smeagolsfree said:

I saw the permit this morning too and we are trying to run the details down.

Thank you everyone, I feel special that folks are asking lowly ol' ME about a project! I remember a few years ago I stumbled across a proposed development for the "gully" off of 14th and Fatherland, there is a long vacant stone home and the beer store. This development would have been "down in the holler" and would have been built up to Fatherland, something like what they've done in the gully and built up to Shelby in that same area. I reached out to the developers and said it was an interesting development and I'd be glad to be a "neighborhood liaison"...I'd also be interested in something similar here. I feel all too often it's "us vs them", residents vs developers and it results in Lose Lose scenarios. If there is a person from the resident side who acts as a mediator, it could help both parties. 

[smeagolsfree]

Resident input and involvement is important and you have a good council person over there that is very involved which helps a lot.

[WebberThomas4]

2 hours ago, FatherLand said:

Thank you everyone, I feel special that folks are asking lowly ol' ME about a project! I remember a few years ago I stumbled across a proposed development for the "gully" off of 14th and Fatherland, there is a long vacant stone home and the beer store. This development would have been "down in the holler" and would have been built up to Fatherland, something like what they've done in the gully and built up to Shelby in that same area. I reached out to the developers and said it was an interesting development and I'd be glad to be a "neighborhood liaison"...I'd also be interested in something similar here. I feel all too often it's "us vs them", residents vs developers and it results in Lose Lose scenarios. If there is a person from the resident side who acts as a mediator, it could help both parties. 

Have you heard anything  recently about the 14th and Fatherland development? The old stone house at the corner is looking rough. 

[FatherLand]

2 minutes ago, WebberThomas4 said:

Have you heard anything  recently about the 14th and Fatherland development? The old stone house at the corner is looking rough. 

No sir. That corner is just a black hole. I remember when the gentleman moved out a few years ago, I assumed it would be redeveloped any time. That was 3-4 years ago and NOTHING. The house across the street was sold and someone put blue vinyl siding on the exterior ... I could have swore that was anti-vinyl siding territory. And of course the beer store, I love the beer store and it's had a few paint jobs over the years. I heard at one point a developer is trying to piece all the parcels at 14th and Fatherland together for a large development therefore it would be a multi-year wait. 

So long story short ... no, nothing at all shaking with it. Which is so crazy, how/why would someone hold onto a house and pay taxes & upkeep, and hold it through one of the most amazing run-ups in 37206 property values....and just keeps holding, year after year. It defies logic that spot hasn't been sold and then developed. 

[AronG]

5 hours ago, FatherLand said:

A few initial thoughts on this: 

1) My first reaction was "OH HELL NO"...Imagine the noise! I hear/read horror stories about loud bands as neighbors

2) Then I thought...hmm, I know nothing about music recording or studios...and quite possibly, a true production studio would have world class soundproofing. 

3) Then I looked at the website for Q Prime Artist management and realized they manage some truly famous musicians and bands...and thought, wow, how amazing to periodically have famous musicians casually strolling by our house and into a studio, and walking to The Post for a coffee...this could be amazing! 

4) And I thought some more, and realized it might be a good fit...one of the big variables in the past has been parking...for a music studio, the parking needs are much smaller than a hotel and/or bar/restaurant. Much less comings and goings at night. 

I'm pro-development by default, and I liked the previous idea of a restaurant/bar/hotel. And I CANNOT WAIT for this building to receive some TLC. It's been an eyesore year...after year...after year. 

So maybe on second thought...this recording studio is a great idea. I dont know yet. 

I'm a block from there and I was super disappointed with the way a few people reacted to the last proposal. Now instead of a restaurant/bar within walking distance and a nice hotel that visitors could use, we'll have another niche business that doesn't provide any neighborhood amenities, similar to the 2-3 spots behind The Post. It is insane how we're at a point where the loudest, whiniest homeowners in a vicinity have so much power over what's done with every piece of property that isn't on Gallatin. If they had their way we wouldn't have the bike shop at 17th and Shelby either. And you'd think it was in the Bible that the metro government owes them 3 unobstructed parking spaces in front of their house at taxpayer expense.

Anyway, I'm fine with a recording studio if that's what it takes to keep that building from being abandoned. I can only hope it'll evolve over time.

[grilled_cheese]

4 Way Market at 1501 Fatherland is the best beer store on the East Side and possibly all of Nashville.  Please do not fvck with it.

[FatherLand]

4 minutes ago, grilled_cheese said:

4 Way Market at 1501 Fatherland is the best beer store on the East Side and possibly all of Nashville.  Please do not fvck with it.

Ha agreed their selection is hands down amazing. I try to get in and out in thirty seconds to keep the cigarette smoke clothing absorption rate under 13%

[bwithers1]

21 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

Resident input and involvement is important and you have a good council person over there that is very involved which helps a lot.

@smeagolsfree  Thank you!  Yes, the proposed adaptive reuse of the historic church building at 1700 Fatherland seemed to me to address most of the community concerns about noise and parking congestion in that area.  The parcel does have commercial zoning already and is also identified for commercial uses within the MDHA Five Points Redevelopment District.  But restaurant uses in particular generate lots of parking demand both from staff and patrons (in the latter case, either parking or using ride shares, which still can cause congestion on a narrow street like that portion of 17th).  I think that this proposal is a good fit for 1700 Fatherland.  I have been working with the design team and Codes to keep the permits moving along.

Similarly, I am excited about the hotel adaptive reuse for the historic church at 819 Russell.  I was able to walk the site with a principal a week ago.  It's a creative reuse that will utilize and show off the rose windows in the lobby area and expose some of the historic architectural elements in the interior spaces.  And a boutique hotel without a lobby bar will be much, much quieter than a restaurant or event venue, which are the types of users who had been scouting that building.  The ownership team did agree to my requirement to exclude a lobby bar and to incorporate an on-site manager apartment.

For 14th/Fatherland, my understanding is that the proposal that was presented at a LSNA meeting a couple of years ago does not meet the NashvilleNext community plan, and so if that were to move forward a community plan amendment would be required.  That could be a minor amendment from Neighborhood Maintenance to Neighborhood Evolving, and that is not impossible, but it is a higher bar in terms of community support requirements.  As things stand there is nothing stopping the corner parcel, which already has CN zoning, from being reused or redeveloped.  CN zoning has a low Floor Area Ratio and height limitation.  But something could be done there.  My thought is that retail generally does not do well in isolation, and so that would need to be a restaurant or other type of business that could stand on its own, which again brings with it traffic and noise concerns in what is already a fairly tricky area to navigate.  But it would still be a small space with significant infrastructure and engineering upgrade requirements for parking and sidewalks.  I would like to see something go in there but I suspect that this parcel assemblage will need to wait until community discussions evolve a bit more before a plan comes together that both enjoys community support and that is economically viable.

[AronG]

2 hours ago, grilled_cheese said:

4 Way Market at 1501 Fatherland is the best beer store on the East Side and possibly all of Nashville.  Please do not fvck with it.

No doubt. I do wish he would put stickers on the 6 packs tho, I lose track of how the prices compare to the 4 stop on Woodland.

[AronG]

1 hour ago, bwithers1 said:

Yes, the proposed adaptive reuse of the historic church building at 1700 Fatherland seemed to me to address most of the community concerns about noise and parking congestion in that area.  The parcel does have commercial zoning already and is also identified for commercial uses within the MDHA Five Points Redevelopment District.  But restaurant uses in particular generate lots of parking demand both from staff and patrons (in the latter case, either parking or using ride shares, which still can cause congestion on a narrow street like that portion of 17th).  I think that this proposal is a good fit for 1700 Fatherland.  I have been working with the design team and Codes to keep the permits moving along.

Appreciate your work Brett, but I hope you're registering that there's a generational split going on around what's desirable in our neighborhoods. You call the recording studio a good fit for 1700 Fatherland, by which I guess you mean it's less likely to stir up the older crowd that has cornered our current feedback process and is focused on "parking congestion" above all else. But there are other ways to deal with parking congestion besides pushing all restaurants and shops out to the arterials, and the neighborhood's going to suffer if that's the default we settle on.

I live on the 1800 block of Fatherland, which is about half young families and half older residents. All but a few of the older residents are highly appreciative of neighborhood amenities like The Post, even though (or because) they are popular and pull people into the neighborhood. I'm sure if The Post was an empty lot today you'd face pressure from the same loud detractors to resist something awful like a popular coffee shop that would inspire people to park along 17th. But the walkability of our neighborhood is what makes it special, and the restaurants and shops embedded in the neighborhood, like The Post, Lockeland Table, the 4 way Market, Urban Cowboy, Sweet 16, etc. are what gives people a destination to walk to. Working to attract faceless recording studios or chiropractors or whatever instead of actual interesting retail businesses may be the easiest way to mollify the loud complainers, but it adds nothing to the neighborhood.

[FatherLand]

3 hours ago, bwithers1 said:

@smeagolsfree  Thank you!  Yes, the proposed adaptive reuse of the historic church building at 1700 Fatherland seemed to me to address most of the community concerns about noise and parking congestion in that area.  The parcel does have commercial zoning already and is also identified for commercial uses within the MDHA Five Points Redevelopment District.  But restaurant uses in particular generate lots of parking demand both from staff and patrons (in the latter case, either parking or using ride shares, which still can cause congestion on a narrow street like that portion of 17th).  I think that this proposal is a good fit for 1700 Fatherland.  I have been working with the design team and Codes to keep the permits moving along.

Similarly, I am excited about the hotel adaptive reuse for the historic church at 819 Russell.  I was able to walk the site with a principal a week ago.  It's a creative reuse that will utilize and show off the rose windows in the lobby area and expose some of the historic architectural elements in the interior spaces.  And a boutique hotel without a lobby bar will be much, much quieter than a restaurant or event venue, which are the types of users who had been scouting that building.  The ownership team did agree to my requirement to exclude a lobby bar and to incorporate an on-site manager apartment.

For 14th/Fatherland, my understanding is that the proposal that was presented at a LSNA meeting a couple of years ago does not meet the NashvilleNext community plan, and so if that were to move forward a community plan amendment would be required.  That could be a minor amendment from Neighborhood Maintenance to Neighborhood Evolving, and that is not impossible, but it is a higher bar in terms of community support requirements.  As things stand there is nothing stopping the corner parcel, which already has CN zoning, from being reused or redeveloped.  CN zoning has a low Floor Area Ratio and height limitation.  But something could be done there.  My thought is that retail generally does not do well in isolation, and so that would need to be a restaurant or other type of business that could stand on its own, which again brings with it traffic and noise concerns in what is already a fairly tricky area to navigate.  But it would still be a small space with significant infrastructure and engineering upgrade requirements for parking and sidewalks.  I would like to see something go in there but I suspect that this parcel assemblage will need to wait until community discussions evolve a bit more before a plan comes together that both enjoys community support and that is economically viable.

@bwithers1 thank you very much for the info. Question on the recording studio @ 1700 Fatherland...is it a done deal? Does this fit within the existing zoning thus no community involvement is required? Or will there be meetings and discussions? 

[grilled_cheese]

7 hours ago, AronG said:

No doubt. I do wish he would put stickers on the 6 packs tho, I lose track of how the prices compare to the 4 stop on Woodland.

I really think they get from the same "beer service" so the prices are likely identical or off by such a small amount it doesn't matter.  I think I tried to log all the prices at one time and it was that way but I may be wrong.  I try to shop at all the guys with good selections these days, Kwik Sak, 4 Way Market, 4 Stop, Sinkers, that gas station in 5 Points.

[bwithers1]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 11:21 AM, AronG said:

Appreciate your work Brett, but I hope you're registering that there's a generational split going on around what's desirable in our neighborhoods. You call the recording studio a good fit for 1700 Fatherland, by which I guess you mean it's less likely to stir up the older crowd that has cornered our current feedback process and is focused on "parking congestion" above all else. But there are other ways to deal with parking congestion besides pushing all restaurants and shops out to the arterials, and the neighborhood's going to suffer if that's the default we settle on.

I live on the 1800 block of Fatherland, which is about half young families and half older residents. All but a few of the older residents are highly appreciative of neighborhood amenities like The Post, even though (or because) they are popular and pull people into the neighborhood. I'm sure if The Post was an empty lot today you'd face pressure from the same loud detractors to resist something awful like a popular coffee shop that would inspire people to park along 17th. But the walkability of our neighborhood is what makes it special, and the restaurants and shops embedded in the neighborhood, like The Post, Lockeland Table, the 4 way Market, Urban Cowboy, Sweet 16, etc. are what gives people a destination to walk to. Working to attract faceless recording studios or chiropractors or whatever instead of actual interesting retail businesses may be the easiest way to mollify the loud complainers, but it adds nothing to the neighborhood.

Oh, I would totally disagree that bringing a quiet user to an historic church structure that has been falling apart since at least as far back as when the bell tower was demolished in 1983 "adds nothing to the neighborhood."  I would totally disagree with that statement.  A neighborhood is made up of more than just restaurants/bars.  Those come and go, and during economic down cycles, they can be the first to go as local discretionary spending is reined in, tourism wanes, etc.  Sometimes areas become oversaturated with restaurants -- even in San Francisco -- and there are diminishing returns.  Even thinking locally, look at Hillsboro Village.  Sometimes an area can be overdone, then the rents increase and competition becomes fierce, and then an economic cycle happens and/or a new hip spot emerges and the old spot becomes faded or vacant. 

Sometimes there are only so many restaurants or retail businesses that a community can support.  A little diversification can be a good thing. 

I believe that allowing an existing East Nashville local business to expand to a larger space within the neighborhood while also funding the stabilization of an historic church structure is a great thing.  That's just my opinion.  And what is more Nashville than a recording studio or music-industry business?

I would also somewhat disagree that perceptions about noise or even driving-versus-biking is as generational as one might imagine.  Some of the biggest (by which I mean, loudest) bike advocates in East Nashville are seniors.  Some of the folks who raise the most concerns about parking congestion and noise arising from businesses adjacent to or near residences are young people, especially young people with young families/children.  It just depends.

Edited January 23, 2019 by bwithers1

[bwithers1]

On ‎1‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 1:46 PM, FatherLand said:

@bwithers1 thank you very much for the info. Question on the recording studio @ 1700 Fatherland...is it a done deal? Does this fit within the existing zoning thus no community involvement is required? Or will there be meetings and discussions? 

The proposed use is permitted within the existing commercial zoning entitlements on the parcel.  The architecture team has maintained communication with Codes and the Metro Historic Zoning Commission staff and with me.  So far nothing has emerged that would require a public hearing either for exterior alterations of the building or for other variances.  If something does arise that requires a public hearing, then community discussion will take place.

[FatherLand]

4 minutes ago, bwithers1 said:

Oh, I would totally disagree that bringing a quiet user to an historic church structure that has been falling apart since at least as far back as when the bell tower was demolished in 1983 "adds nothing to the neighborhood."  I would totally disagree with that statement.  A neighborhood is made up of more than just restaurants/bars.  Those come and go, and during economic down cycles, they can be the first to go as local discretionary spending is reined in, tourism wanes, etc.  Sometimes areas become oversaturated with restaurants -- even in San Francisco -- and there are diminishing returns.  Even thinking locally, look at Hillsboro Village.  Sometimes an area can be overdone, then the rents increase and competition becomes fierce, and then an economic cycle happens and/or a new hip spot emerges and the old spot becomes faded or vacant. 

Sometimes there are only so many restaurants or retail businesses that a community can support.  A little diversification can be a good thing. 

I believe that allowing an existing East Nashville local business to expand to a larger space within the neighborhood while also funding the stabilization of an historic church structure is a great thing.  That's just my opinion.  And what is more Nashville than a recording studio or music-industry business?

I would also somewhat disagree that perceptions about noise or even driving-versus-biking is as generational as one might imagine.  Some of the biggest (by which I mean, loudest) bike advocates in East Nashville are senior citizens.  Some of the folks who complain the most about parking congestion and noise concerns are young people, especially young people with young families/children.  It just depends.

@bwithers1 regarding your 'quiet user' description of a recording studio...does that mean that we can assume that a recording studio has such amazing soundproofing that the music played within is not audible to neighbors? I don't know anything about music studios, and my initial thought was a music studio would be VERY LOUD

[bwithers1]

2 minutes ago, FatherLand said:

@bwithers1 regarding your 'quiet user' description of a recording studio...does that mean that we can assume that a recording studio has such amazing soundproofing that the music played within is not audible to neighbors? I don't know anything about music studios, and my initial thought was a music studio would be VERY LOUD

Recording studios are different from event venues or practice spaces.  Recording studios tend to require that no external sound bleed into the room.  And therefore they tend to be quite well soundproofed which prevents outside sound from coming in and inside sound from escaping. I can't recall to what extent a recording studio is included in plans for this building.  But in any event the plan was not a concert space or anything like that. 

Technically, music from the Post East could generate sound that can be plainly audible at the adjacent residential property line and therefore be in violation of the noise ordinances.  I haven't heard any of those particular complaints.  I do receive periodic emails from residents along 17th Street about other matters, though.

[fishsticks176]

A recording studio isn’t going to be loud for the neighbors. The goal is to block noise from outside and to control the noise inside, so inherently a good studio is pretty quiet from the outside. Soundproof padding, diffusers, floating floors/ceilings, etc. I can’t see it being a problem.

[BnaBreaker]

1 hour ago, fishsticks176 said:

A recording studio isn’t going to be loud for the neighbors. The goal is to block noise from outside and to control the noise inside, so inherently a good studio is pretty quiet from the outside. Soundproof padding, diffusers, floating floors/ceilings, etc. I can’t see it being a problem.

Exactly.  This isn't like band practice in mom's garage.  Recording studios are designed to keep the sound in.

[WebberThomas4]

http://bizj.us/1pssng

Sean Brock (Husk) reveals his plans for an Appalachian-focused 2-story, 10,000 sqft restaurant in east Nashville. No address was given, but it will be in a “converted industrial building”. Any guesses?

 

 

[FatherLand]

2 minutes ago, WebberThomas4 said:

http://bizj.us/1pssng

Sean Brock (Husk) reveals his plans for an Appalachian-focused 2-story, 10,000 sqft restaurant in east Nashville. No address was given, but it will be in a “converted industrial building”. Any guesses?

 

 

My first guess is the older building on Main st the "Industrial Staffing" spot: 

[Nashville Cliff]

My first guess (I'm wishing; two blocks from the house).  Krispy Kreme/Wholesale Meats site on Gallatin