smeagolsfree

The Gulch Projects

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I'll echo what some of you are saying...this elevation could very much be the exact same building without the questionable vertical stripe.  Elevations rarely make for a great understanding of a building.  I'd bet that the architect is upset that this drawing was chosen to represent the design.

 

That's probably the one that was sent to the paper. They also probably don't have everything about the facade figured out yet, so a general elevation is what they rolled out with. 

 

I still don't understand people getting upset with no detail and "boxes". I thought we already had the architecture on a budget discussion.

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That's probably the one that was sent to the paper. They also probably don't have everything about the facade figured out yet, so a general elevation is what they rolled out with. 

 

I still don't understand people getting upset with no detail and "boxes". I thought we already had the architecture on a budget discussion.

I can find a similiar sized project, similiar budget, being developed in another city and the architecture would be 10x better.

 

Not upset, just saying more can be done with what we have.

 

That's all.

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I wish it were taller, but this building looks to be built mostly on spec. Building a 15 story building in an unproven office neighborhood without a primary tenant is pretty significant in this economy.

I know this was a while back, but I feel like I remember something about Sony Music wanting to move into this building. Is that not still the case?

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I can find a similiar sized project, similiar budget, being developed in another city and the architecture would be 10x better.

 

Not upset, just saying more can be done with what we have.

 

That's all.

I just don't know how you could know that from an elevation.

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I can find a similiar sized project, similiar budget, being developed in another city and the architecture would be 10x better.

 

Not upset, just saying more can be done with what we have.

 

That's all.

 

I'm sure the lease amount is substantially larger as well. 

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I know this was a while back, but I feel like I remember something about Sony Music wanting to move into this building. Is that not still the case?

I hope not.  They have that really cool refurbished "Home for the Aged" building on the Row they've been in for about 15 years that I'd hate to see them leave.  Someone would probably come behind them and tear it down.

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underwhelming to say the least... we are in Nashville's 'Golden Age' and 'they' build 11 stories shorter than the codes allow????? 

To sum it up - 99% of Nashville developers lack ANY vision. In fact the ONLY developer that comes close is Tony G. but he has no money, ha.

Maybe the two go hand in hand.

 

You can add to that unfortunate lack of vision the boxes that are proposed/planned in the North Gulch. The largest corporate "citizen" in Nashville blows off a signature office tower (or two!) and bolts for squatty boxes... notwithstanding Alex Palmer's failure to get financing for it.  I wonder what the untold back story of that one is. 

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You can add to that unfortunate lack of vision the boxes that are proposed/planned in the North Gulch. The largest corporate "citizen" in Nashville blows off a signature office tower (or two!) and bolts for squatty boxes... notwithstanding Alex Palmer's failure to get financing for it.  I wonder what the untold back story of that one is.

1) no one has shared a rendering of HCA in North Gulch. We don't know the size or shape.

2) the design of WES, while likely taller, was very underwhelming.

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1) no one has shared a rendering of HCA in North Gulch. We don't know the size or shape.

2) the design of WES, while likely taller, was very underwhelming.

 

1) Not publicly, but we have a good idea what it will look like (this is why it's good to come to our meetings in person!). Not specifically HCA, but I can say that along with the renders we have seen thus far, NoGul will look like a solid development. It won't be skyscrapers that are not all-glass, but they will be mid-rises that aren't all-glass.

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I do come to the damn meetings.

My point is that a 'glass box' for HCA is still speculation at this point.

North Gulch as a whole seems to draw a lot of hate based on speculation alone. I guess the silver lining is people are setting their expectations to Cool Springs levels.

Edited by UTgrad09

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Boys, take a chiller.  This is all just throwing opinions around at this stage.  Toe-may-toe, tuh-mah-toe!  

 

We've seen very little of North Gulch, but from the looks of the the architects' other works, don't expect anything even as attractive as WES might have looked at that prominent spot on West End. 

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I just don't know how you could know that from an elevation.

 I agree that the elavation non-detailed rendering leaves much to imagine...but let's see

 

ATL is proposing an Omni to their convention center for $207-245 mil. 800 room (doesnt say how tall)

 

Definitely taller and nice than ours (in my opinion), and for $320mil we get a concrete box

gwcc-hotel-v06-final-sm*600.jpg

gwcc-hotel-v05-final-sm*600.jpg

 

Downtown Louisville 600 room Omni,400 apartments, high-end grocery store, parking development $261mil

 

Still a box, but more bang for the buck

City-Center-4_3_2013.jpg

 

 

Spec building in Arlington County - 20 stories and 410,000 square feet

Cost 110mil

 

4040wilson2-cx*304.jpg

 

10 story spec $75mil  - Tempe, AZ

 

60014_1393345827_haydeniii.jpg

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Yes, that's a stunning rendering... but you guys have said it so many many times... it's more the client (MDHA and Omni) than the architect.  It is sort of amusing to hear the guys at Omni now admit that they were too conservative (in so many words, of course).  They know they could have sold out every room, with a 1000 room hotel.  If they had, they might have precluded one (or more) of these competing hotels that have announced. 

 

And don't misunderstand, I am glad for the street front activation that the Omni has brought.  And I understand the rooms are quite fine.  I also appreciate the idea behind the North Gulch.. to spread out the urban zones downtown.  But I still have to agree with the point that the clients and developers in town are way way boring.  That's the basis for what I expect from HCA.  

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Could be wrong...but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that the HCA development has to be pretty short because of the "capitol view" issue in that area.

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 I agree that the elavation non-detailed rendering leaves much to imagine...but let's see

 

ATL is proposing an Omni to their convention center for $207-245 mil. 800 room (doesnt say how tall)

 

Definitely taller and nice than ours (in my opinion), and for $320mil we get a concrete box

gwcc-hotel-v06-final-sm*600.jpg

gwcc-hotel-v05-final-sm*600.jpg

 

Downtown Louisville 600 room Omni,400 apartments, high-end grocery store, parking development $261mil

 

Still a box, but more bang for the buck

City-Center-4_3_2013.jpg

 

 

Spec building in Arlington County - 20 stories and 410,000 square feet

Cost 110mil

 

4040wilson2-cx*304.jpg

 

10 story spec $75mil  - Tempe, AZ

 

60014_1393345827_haydeniii.jpg

 

Wait until either Omni is complete or even built.  Do you not recall the original Omni rendering for Nashville?  It was a nice concept with differing window elevations and gradating sizes.

 

Personally speaking, that curved Tempe spec looks weak and the Arlington building better look nice if $110 million buys you 410,000 sf. 

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Yes, that's a stunning rendering... but you guys have said it so many many times... it's more the client (MDHA and Omni) than the architect.  It is sort of amusing to hear the guys at Omni now admit that they were too conservative (in so many words, of course).  They know they could have sold out every room, with a 1000 room hotel.  If they had, they might have precluded one (or more) of these competing hotels that have announced. 

 

And don't misunderstand, I am glad for the street front activation that the Omni has brought.  And I understand the rooms are quite fine.  I also appreciate the idea behind the North Gulch.. to spread out the urban zones downtown.  But I still have to agree with the point that the clients and developers in town are way way boring.  That's the basis for what I expect from HCA.  

 

It's the market more than anything.  Nashville is barely ready to pay $300/night for the Omni for the "luxury experience".  The Standard at the High Line is 66% more expensive a night...so, yeah...buildings are gonna have more finesse to them where there is more investment involved.

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Wait until either Omni is complete or even built.  Do you not recall the original Omni rendering for Nashville?  It was a nice concept with differing window elevations and gradating sizes.

 

Personally speaking, that curved Tempe spec looks weak and the Arlington building better look nice if $110 million buys you 410,000 sf. 

 

Well, it's an apples to oranges comparison, IMO. 

 

-The "experimental" hotel for a new convention center in Nashville (Omni funds only correct?)

 

vs

 

-The anchor hotel for a new convention center and stadium in Atlanta (speculating here, but city money, Omni money, somewhere down the line Falcons/NFL money)

-A hotel/residential tower combination in Louisville (Hotel money, residential developer's money, bank's money)

-A spec tower in a DC suburb (different use = different developers = different amount of money required)

-And a 10 story spec building in Tempe (same as the spec tower)

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Well, it's an apples to oranges comparison, IMO. 

 

-The "experimental" hotel for a new convention center in Nashville (Omni funds only correct?)

 

vs

 

-The anchor hotel for a new convention center and stadium in Atlanta (speculating here, but city money, Omni money, somewhere down the line Falcons/NFL money)

-A hotel/residential tower combination in Louisville (Hotel money, residential developer's money, bank's money)

-A spec tower in a DC suburb (different use = different developers = different amount of money required)

-And a 10 story spec building in Tempe (same as the spec tower)

The examples I gave were of similar sized projects, with similar budgets/finance structures, but a little bit different architecture. 

 

The Falcons/nfl have nothing to do with the atl Omni project . It's a public private deal like the Nashville project, same with Louisville, they just added a residential /retail component to it. 

 

The spec buildings were examples of developers building on speculation with no signed leases. The use will be the same - get it 100% leased.

 

I Guess bland square boxes are the norm these days...seems like developers/architects in every city are doing it. 

 

Oh well... Maybe one day

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The examples I gave were of similar sized projects, with similar budgets/finance structures, but a little bit different architecture. 

 

The Falcons/nfl have nothing to do with the atl Omni project . It's a public private deal like the Nashville project, same with Louisville, they just added a residential /retail component to it. 

 

The spec buildings were examples of developers building on speculation with no signed leases. The use will be the same - get it 100% leased.

 

I Guess bland square boxes are the norm these days...seems like developers/architects in every city are doing it. 

 

Oh well... Maybe one day

The fact that you're comparing a hospitality related developed to commercial development still confuses me. Two completely different finance structures, two completely different mindsets from both the development and design standpoint. 

 

The Falcons have everything to do with that Omni project seeing as their need/want for a new stadium is somewhat what sparked all of this. Notice they took the time to include the new stadium in those renderings; that's not just for the location relationship. Believe me, developers and design teams collaborate to show more than just the design. 

 

Of course the lease will be the same, but you can't compare the designs/rents/lease agreements to buildings in Nashville to those when the leases there are more than likely significantly much more than those of Nashville. 

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Don't forget, the earliest renderings for the 12/12 and office building looked like this...

 

Eakin6_zps8d66b4a1.jpg

 

It wasn't an appealing representation of what eventually became the finished product.

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I'm curious, though, whether the parking structures of the two (Eakin and 1212) will abut or have some kind of connecting element like in the early rendering?    Eakin will have retail on both Demonbreun and 12th.    Ideally, Eakin's retail on 12th would seamlessly adjoin the 1212 retail.      Seamlessly, meaning without a physical break - not that they need to look similar in design or materials.    

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Nobody was complaining about the Eakin when it was supposedly going to be 20 stories tall. Now all of the sudden that it turns out to be a little bit shorter than expected it's a bland glass box?... :dontknow:  It looks to me like it's pretty much the same building, just shorter. Not EVERYTHING we are getting is a boring box like some make it seem, look at the SoBro. There is nothing boring or bland about that tower.  

 

I'm just happy that we're seeing the amount of development that we're getting and parking lots are slowly disappearing. There are a lot of other cities that would be jumping for joy for projects like the Westin and Eakin, yet here all you hear is complaining. I mean, I could see maybe being a little picky if we were getting skyscrapers built left and right, but that's not really the case. You would think an announcement of a projects like these would be welcomed with open arms...but it isn't. I'm just wondering...when the hell did we all start getting so damn picky? 

Amen...

 

Any plans for a Fendi or Versace in the retail components of any of these new developments?

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