The Yard at Ivanhoe | Mixed-Use [Under Construction]

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

It's been tried before with Expo Centre but was not terribly successful. Maybe that will change but I think the powers that be are gunshy about trying again.

I think that with smaller shows, they are hotel controlled.  Take the Wyndham at I-Drive 360(ish).  they are always busy with shows...maybe because of their location...dunno.

[AndyPok1]

2 hours ago, sunshine said:

As for the Yard, I agree, it should be bigger. If the entire Virginia Dr can be lined with 3 to 5 stories retails with condo above, it will look great. Is there any chance that they can just close the street from traffic permenantly?

In other cities, the have a program which they would close down the street on certain day of the year...Virginia drive is perfect for that.

I know we don't generally see eye-to-eye, and this isn't meant as hostile... but... WHAT?!

Don't get me wrong, I'd loooooove a new mini-cavern neighborhood street with 5 story retail/condos.  A bigger/modern/Thornton Park in essence.  Grant in SoDo has potential for something like that.  But Virginia?  That's INSANE.  That would completely ruin the entire fabric of the neighborhood.

The Yard is just an endcap, just like Mills Park is on the other end.

[aent]

2 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

This is exactly why I would like to see a smaller conv center DT. We can have 2. Its not exclusive...

We have a number of ginormous convention hotels... Rosen Shingle Creek, Gaylord Palms, and several other Disney hotels have space that is larger then, say,  Jacksonville or West Palm's convention centers. Infact, Gaylord Palms announced they're doing an expansion to double their space. I can't imagine a smaller downtown  convention center competing with these.

[sunshine]

Well, it has to start somewhere, NYC does not start from 50 plus story tower on day 1.  I see 5 story retails/condos will enhance the neighbourhood and will increase density. Isnt it the point of being close to the center?  Isnt this entire street zoned for 50 ft height (not sure)?

[prahaboheme]

2 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

I know we don't generally see eye-to-eye, and this isn't meant as hostile... but... WHAT?!

Don't get me wrong, I'd loooooove a new mini-cavern neighborhood street with 5 story retail/condos.  A bigger/modern/Thornton Park in essence.  Grant in SoDo has potential for something like that.  But Virginia?  That's INSANE.  That would completely ruin the entire fabric of the neighborhood.

The Yard is just an endcap, just like Mills Park is on the other end.

It’s an endcap for now, but one that encroaches already on the neighborhood. 

I agree with sunshine that this street has huge potential and should go taller.

[AndyPok1]

I love all the one-story repurposed buildings.  I'd argue Virginia/Ivanhoe is our most successful organically grown neighborhood, even more than Thornton these days.  Why you would want to mess with that leisurely character it has developed is beyond me.

[prahaboheme]

Growth is going to happen — how’s its managed will enhance or “mess with” its character. Change is coming either way.

 

[AndyPok1]

Fair point, and there's absolutely opportunity within the corridor (car lot for one).  Just on my list of places things need built, Virginia isn't even in the top 25 of my list of traditional city locations.

[spenser1058]

Several things occur to me:

• I always wondered when Penn Station was torn down exactly what they were thinking. I also wondered who could possibly think Robert Moses’ idea to bulldoze Greenwich Village was a good thing. At least I seem to have encountered folks in here with that mindset so it’s now my chance to live and learn;

• Some seem to have an opinion that the Perimeter and Buckhead (to use Atlanta as an example) are the sine qua non of our aspirations. I guess I’m odd but when I’m there I rarely visit those places (except my pilgrimage to Lenox Square - it’s required of preppy Southerners.) Instead, I’m much more likely to go to Little Five Points, Ponce ,  Grant Park and Piedmont. Maybe block after block of high rises don’t have to be sterile but that’s been my experience.

• Where is it written that College Parkers, oftentimes longtime multi-generational residents, have no right to say what becomes of their neighborhood. So much for democracy.

I’m not innately opposed to height and density is ok, but more often than not Jane Jacobs was right: these big projects often seem to be solutions in search of a problem more often than the other way ‘round.

[prahaboheme]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Several things occur to me:

• I always wondered when Penn Station was torn down exactly what they were thinking. I also wondered who could possibly think Robert Moses’ idea to bulldoze Greenwich Village was a good thing. At least I seem to have encountered folks in here with that mindset so it’s now my chance to live and learn;

• Some seem to have an opinion that the Perimeter and Buckhead (to use Atlanta as an example) are the sine qua non of our aspirations. I guess I’m odd but when I’m there I rarely visit those places (except my pilgrimage to Lenox Square - it’s required of preppy Southerners.) Instead, I’m much more likely to go to Little Five Points, Ponce ,  Grant Park and Piedmont. Maybe block after block of high rises don’t have to be sterile but that’s been my experience.

• Where is it written that College Parkers, oftentimes longtime multi-generational residents, have no right to say what becomes of their neighborhood. So much for democracy.

I’m not innately opposed to height and density is ok, but more often than not Jane Jacobs was right: these big projects often seem to be solutions in search of a problem more often than the other way ‘round.

A few things about this post:

- The demolition of Penn Station is universally lambasted.  Pinning oneself on the side of its preservation, to argue that others lack the foresight to protect it, seems a bit strange in the context of Virginia Ave (a cute street but hardly Main Street USA).

- College Parker’s have every right to speak out against development. If they took a less NIMBY-stance to literally everything, they may actually help to improve the quality of new development rather than just try to obstruct it. They could take a note from Winter Park or Winter Garden. Not sure what democracy has to do with this (unless of course this eludes to trend that wealthy multi-generational CPers more often than not get their way politically and economically in our Republic).

- Jane Jacobs tied herself to a tree in the Village to protect NYC from an east-west downtown expressway running through Greenwich Village — one of the most urbane sections of America and the world. No doubt her lessons should be carried forward to a new generation. And on that note, it would be wonderful to see a continuous street wall on Virgina, with a completely pedestrian friendly stretch of restaurants, retail, and additional residential units to support them.  

Lake Ivanhoe is not about to turn into Buckhead; I guess that is what Millenia and Lake Nona are for.

[gibby]

This project is really coming together.

[Xander]

 monstrosity.... 

[Kaz]

Really hoping that food hall being discussed happens. It’ll have the right mix of parking and walk ability to be successful.

[jrs2]

23 hours ago, Xander said:

 monstrosity.... 

technically, from those shots, it does look like one... not that I, personally am complaining.  I like this project because just a few years back, Mills Park was an abandoned mill.  Back then, no one would've ever imagined development there and here, on the wrong side of Alden, in a very unlikely strip of land.  that's why I like this, because of the uniqueness of the location.

[smileguy]

On 1/15/2019 at 2:51 PM, jrs2 said:

technically, from those shots, it does look like one... not that I, personally am complaining.  I like this project because just a few years back, Mills Park was an abandoned mill.  Back then, no one would've ever imagined development there and here, on the wrong side of Alden, in a very unlikely strip of land.  that's why I like this, because of the uniqueness of the location.

I was driving past it today, and it looks like there will be plenty of variation in setbacks along this wall. Hopefully that helps break it up visually.  

[spenser1058]

This article from the Orlando Weekly confirms that, no matter how noble the intentions of the Yard’s developers, the dynamic of the neighborhood is about to change:

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2019/01/21/the-venue-is-closing-on-sept-12-and-it-wont-be-moving-into-the-yard-at-ivanhoe

[orlandoguy]

Blue: “We’d consider a move to the Hourglass.”

Hourglass: “Can I show you something in a size Former Walgreens?”

[Naqiy90]

11 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

This article from the Orlando Weekly confirms that, no matter how noble the intentions of the Yard’s developers, the dynamic of the neighborhood is about to change:

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2019/01/21/the-venue-is-closing-on-sept-12-and-it-wont-be-moving-into-the-yard-at-ivanhoe

People act like Ivanhoe was completely unknown before the Yard was proposed.  Adventist Health and Loch Haven Park  draw more traffic to the area then the Yard will. Hopefully the influx of new residents compels the city to improve the pedestrian experience along Orange Ave. My  wish is that the City would eliminate the street parking and add a bike lane and widen the sidewalks.

[dcluley98]

There is a pedestrian desert on Orange between Virginia and the Lure strip to Ivanhoe Village due to the RR tracks on the east side. This has always struck me as wrong from an urban planning standpoint. I suppose they think you can cross the street at Virginia, and be safe for the rest, but this is not how it works in Real Life and in practice. 

The businesses are all on the east side from Virginia, and there is no safe crossing back in the Ivanhoe Village area by Hampshire or Vanderbilt, like there is with blinking ped crossings on Virginia at the OUT or at Thornton Park. 

It is a big hole in pedestrian connectivity that needs to be addressed.  There needs to be a pedestrian connection on the east side of Orange of a sidewalk at least along the tracks.

Don't really know how to fix it since the space is so limited there between the RR tracks and the street, but over the long term, a solution should be thought about. 

They could probably take from the side-street parking and easement from the west side of Orange to allow for a pedestrian/bike lane on the east side to ease connectivity, but that would need re-alignment of the street and signals for a ways. 

Just my random thoughts.

Edited January 23, 2019 by dcluley98

[sunshine]

19 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

This article from the Orlando Weekly confirms that, no matter how noble the intentions of the Yard’s developers, the dynamic of the neighborhood is about to change:

https://m.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2019/01/21/the-venue-is-closing-on-sept-12-and-it-wont-be-moving-into-the-yard-at-ivanhoe

For the better....

[cwetteland]

Sometimes reading an Orlando Weekly article is like listening to the guy complaining about X-Orlando because that's where his dog pees.

[spenser1058]

As an alt-weekly, though, they do have some clue about the funkier parts of town.

Because of the cheap rent, Ivanhoe Village picked up a lot of the interesting locally-owned spots that were forced out of downtown when the rent skyrocketed to build rather sterile towers.

The inaccurate shorthand term would be gentrification and it’s ok to acknowledge the fact we may be losing an interesting part of our recent history when it happens.

It may well be inevitable, but we can mourn the loss.

In my own case, for example, I can say that the vibe in South Eola today is totally different than it was just 15 years ago.

As I’ve mentioned before, Armistead Maupin writes with passion about this in the “Tales of the City” series when comparing life in Mrs. Madrigal’s rooming house with Mary Ann’s sterile condo at The Summit in San Francisco.

Edited January 23, 2019 by spenser1058

[prahaboheme]

Sounds like the Yard made a good faith effort to incorporate Blue Star into the development. 

[spenser1058]

12 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Sounds like the Yard made a good faith effort to incorporate Blue Star into the development. 

Agreed. I fully understand, however, that the Blue Star’s owner recognized it would likely change the whole atmosphere, particularly since, sooner or later, the rent is bound to increase.

Now, maybe she can look at the latest funky affordable area like the Milk District. However, as we’ve seen with huge self-storage facilities replacing Colonial Lanes (and even if they have a new smaller bowling alley, that will feel very different from the old well-worn building), that area is also on borrowed time.

It’s amazing that our goal for every neighborhood that has an interesting feel about it is to tear it down and replace it with sterile, generic buildings. 

Put another way - I love to visit downtown Winter Garden and have no interest in visiting Baldwin Park.

Edited January 23, 2019 by spenser1058

[prahaboheme]

3 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Agreed. I fully understand, however, that the Blue Star’s owner recognized it would likely change the whole atmosphere, particularly since, sooner or later, the rent is bound to increase.

Now, maybe she can look at the latest funky affordable area like the Milk District. However, as we’ve seen with huge self-storage facilities replacing Colonial Lanes (and even if they have a new smaller bowling alley, that will feel very different from the old well-worn building), that area is also on borrowed time.

It’s amazing that our goal for every neighborhood that has an interesting feel about it is to tear it down and replace it with sterile, generic buildings. 

I understand the sentiment and agree that Orlando needs to demand better design in modern development. I’ve been one of the biggest proponents of preservation on this forum over the years. 

It’s hardly an Orlando phenomenon, though. What is uniquely Orlando is that there is a lack of civic engagement in preservation and demand to incorporate existing structures into new development.

I also think this city is incredibly slow at enhancing the uniqueness of its neighborhoods. It seems to rely too heavily on developers to make changes in order to force improvement. An example that always strikes me is that Orlando doesn’t really update streetscapes unless a new development is built (hence the patchwork look of Rosalind, for example).