The Yard at Ivanhoe | Mixed-Use [Under Construction]

[Jvest55]

On 10/16/2019 at 4:41 PM, codypet said:

My mortgage for my 3/2 is $1589 and that includes homeowners insurance and property taxes.  Holy Crap!

Yeah but, where do you live? The math is not that simple. The price is high to be near the center of downtown. The price is also high to be in a brand new modern buidling with amenities, none of which a house has. I think the price is high for the convenience. For example, renters can use the community pool and never clean it.  Do you have a pool? Do you have security at the front desk who gets your packages before the homeless rob it?  I hope you get the point. 

Edited October 17, 2019 by Jvest55

[AmIReal]

2 hours ago, Jvest55 said:

Yeah but, where do you live? The math is not that simple. The price is high to be near the center of downtown. The price is also high to be in a brand new modern buidling with amenities, none of which a house has. I think the price is high for the convenience. For example, renters can use the community pool and never clean it.  Do you have a pool? Do you have security at the front desk who gets your packages before the homeless rob it?  I hope you get the point. 

I'm not the OP, but I think I do get the point. I can pay someone $50 per month to clean my pool. I live closer to downtown than the Yard is and the property value increases here are better than there. I get to deduct my property tax and interest for my mortgage on my federal tax bill. In the end, if wanted,  I can sell my place and net the profit. I've never had homeless people steal my package nor neighbors "steal" my parking place.

Value depends on what you value.

[codypet]

3 hours ago, Jvest55 said:

Yeah but, where do you live? The math is not that simple. The price is high to be near the center of downtown. The price is also high to be in a brand new modern buidling with amenities, none of which a house has. I think the price is high for the convenience. For example, renters can use the community pool and never clean it.  Do you have a pool? Do you have security at the front desk who gets your packages before the homeless rob it?  I hope you get the point. 

I'm in the milk district and judging with what some people I know and work with am friends with living in Solaire, the Grande, 55w and Paramount regarding mismanagement companies I feel like I'm ahead.  Packages get lost all the time,  the pool will get some drunk jerk to bully people out of beach chairs or break a beer bottle in the pool, the company not securing the garage, or not maintaining the gym equipment or elevators.   Not saying this will happen day 1 at the Yard but I've seen it even with my luxury apt in Raleigh that was brand new.  Knock on wood noone had yet stolen packages or broken into our car, though two of them are secured in the garage. 

[dcluley98]

Rent is exorbitant in Orlando. I live in a crappy 1 bd in NQ and its nearly $1600. . . . 

They actually didn't increase it last year and they have showings right now so I have to think that supply is outpacing demand currently. I think that the new buildings coming online is cutting into the pricing factor. I know I will be bringing it up when my lease is due for renewal next year. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by dcluley98

[HankStrong]

10 hours ago, AmIReal said:

I get to deduct my property tax and interest for my mortgage on my federal tax bill.

That's debatable in 2019.

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

That's debatable in 2019.

Is it. The current tax law (TCJA) runs 2018 thru 2025. I have not heard any rumblings of more changes, but I guess stranger things have happened.

[popsiclebrandon]

30 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

Is it. The current tax law (TCJA) runs 2018 thru 2025. I have not heard any rumblings of more changes, but I guess stranger things have happened.

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA), passed in December 2017, changed everything. Prior to its passage, 54% of taxpayers who paid interest on their mortgages received a tax benefit. Even then, a hefty 46% of homeowners paying interest received no benefit at all. With the passage of the TCJA, a 2017 White House commissioned study predicted that nine out of 10 people would opt for the standard deduction, forgoing use of the mortgage interest tax deduction entirely. That means 90% of homeowners paying interest would receive no benefit at all. Furthermore, even those who do receive a benefit would get far less than they expect.

[AmIReal]

15 minutes ago, popsiclebrandon said:

The Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA), passed in December 2017, changed everything. Prior to its passage, 54% of taxpayers who paid interest on their mortgages received a tax benefit. Even then, a hefty 46% of homeowners paying interest received no benefit at all. With the passage of the TCJA, a 2017 White House commissioned study predicted that nine out of 10 people would opt for the standard deduction, forgoing use of the mortgage interest tax deduction entirely. That means 90% of homeowners paying interest would receive no benefit at all. Furthermore, even those who do receive a benefit would get far less than they expect.

That is true for most homeowners. The tax benefit was transferred to the doubling of the standard deduction. So you do not need to own a home in order to qualify for $12k in deduction. If you claim the standard deduction you can not also claim the home deduction. OTOH, some homeowners (me) will still itemize deductions and come out better than using the standard deduction. In this case a taxpayer could have a greater deduction than the 12k standard.

I think your point is the specific benefits of homeownership tied to taxes decreased with the tax law and, for most people, I agree.

[sethM]

15 hours ago, Jvest55 said:

Yeah but, where do you live? The math is not that simple. The price is high to be near the center of downtown. The price is also high to be in a brand new modern buidling with amenities, none of which a house has. I think the price is high for the convenience. For example, renters can use the community pool and never clean it.  Do you have a pool? Do you have security at the front desk who gets your packages before the homeless rob it?  I hope you get the point. 

But just like I had posted, you can rent an entire house right down the street for hundreds less. Then you won't hear people yelling in the halls, people hitting your car in the garage, having to go up and down elevators, and a property company that only cares that you've signed a lease. 

Most apartments have paper thin walls and you'll hear all your neighbors, the yard is all cinder block so you probably won't have that problem, but you'll still have all the other things I mentioned. 

[sunshine]

I think the issue is people want to live in the city center and want to pay low rents.  They can move to Metrowest and Altamonte for that kind of deal.

[HankStrong]

17 minutes ago, sunshine said:

I think the issue is people want to live in the city center and want to pay low rents.  They can move to Metrowest and Altamonte for that kind of deal.

That's a fairly tone-deaf reply to this.  People want to live in the city center for reasonable rents.  That varies from person to person, but there is a reason large numbers of people don't live in downtown Orlando.  The rent is too high.

[Jvest55]

Yeah, I won't deny there are some obvious issues at some rental properties. Still, there is a trend where young people are not interested in maintenance activities needed for a house. Whether that's fixing broken stuff or simply cutting the lawn. There is a safety factor too, if you want to get on the extreme end. Young professional women likely gravitate to a nice shiny apartment. Anyway, the point is simply, even if your house is close to downtown, it's likely just old and is not a good comparison to a brand new rental. I am not dissing old houses, I love them, just saying....

I'd like to add although it sounds bad, the higher the rent the higher the quality tenant "CAN" be. Not always, but if you have 250 people paying on average 1800 vs paying 2500, you are going to get less of those issues such as noisy neighbors, people hitting your car, in my view. 

Edited October 18, 2019 by Jvest55

[sunshine]

 

2 hours ago, HankStrong said:

That's a fairly tone-deaf reply to this.  People want to live in the city center for reasonable rents.  That varies from person to person, but there is a reason large numbers of people don't live in downtown Orlando.  The rent is too high.

No, people want to live in downtown paying suburban rent.  The cost of maintenance for a sprawling apartment complex is vastly different from a shiny high rise. That is like me wanting to find a house in 32789 for 350k or wanting a restoration hardware furniture at Ikea price. It is supply and demand, if people want to live there, they have to pay the price..

[HankStrong]

And that sort of elitism is why so few people will.

[orlandouprise]

47 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

And that sort of elitism is why so few people will.

not really...NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, Boston, DC, SF, Austin, LA, and on and on... they all have high rents and thousands of people live there. Why, because people are willing to pay it. They can because of corporate presence. Higher education, higher paying jobs = people can afford more.  When Orlando learns to invest in education and diversifies its economy instead of continuing the endless rut of service industry minimum wage jobs...then this city will prosper and so will its urban areas.

[sunshine]

20 minutes ago, orlandouprise said:

not really...NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, Boston, DC, SF, Austin, LA, and on and on... they all have high rents and thousands of people live there. Why, because people are willing to pay it. They can because of corporate presence. Higher education, higher paying jobs = people can afford more.  When Orlando learns to invest in education and diversifies its economy instead of continuing the endless rut of service industry minimum wage jobs...then this city will prosper and so will its urban areas.

Agreed. Also, downtown Orlando also need to upgrade itself to make it attractive.

[HankStrong]

3 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

NYC, Chicago, Atlanta, Boston, DC, SF, Austin, LA,

Orlando is nothing like any of these.  Maybe Austin being the closest.

Just because you pay insane premiums to live in downtown NYC or Chicago or Boston, or LA doesn't make it ok or even reasonable in Orlando.

[gibby]

Downtown rents are low in Atlanta and Philadelphia.  Seems strange.

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, gibby said:

Downtown rents are low in Atlanta and Philadelphia.  Seems strange.

Very few people actually want to live in downtown Atlanta. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by spenser1058

[ChiDev]

A large part of why millennials are flocking to downtowns is social connectivity.  Paying a high rent & choosing a small apartment are small sacrifices in exchange for a high density population of peers they wish to meet/commune with.  Older generations saw much the same, but this generation is faced with loss to the digital abyss.  It is far less frequent to see hands unoccupied by phones, so in order to break through to their peer group (in reality) they need to find an active setting, where social incidence is high.  Its part of why rent as a share of income has jumped so startlingly.  Its the whole reason concepts like Coliving & Micro units are becoming mainstream.  Its also why you see Amenity demand skyrocketing, individuals hoping that the onsite social activities will fill this need (when in fact these amenities are often scarcely used).

 

I understand being annoyed at rent levels, and even at gentrification, but to write off people  for choosing urbanity seems like an Ass' load of assumption.

 

That said there are two main ways to encourage affordable rents in downtown Orlando.  The first would be over-zoning.  A sweeping density bump would allow enough units to shift the supply paradigm as mentioned by @dcluley98 suggests.  That seems like a conundrum for a forum with some NIMBY-ist elements.  The other is for the county to implement a rule like California's  SB10 - in which a developer can pursue additional bonus density in exchange for certain % delivery of affordable units.   Need an extra few floors to make the proforma work? Developer is able to include more affordable units and gain the excess FAR by right (and not subject to city/municipality review).  It gives developers a simple tool to both develop more units, deliver more affordable, and the only people at harm are those who would fight the neighborhood density (who are also likely to complain about affordable units in their neighborhood). 

 

Bottom line, there is no scenario here that completely satisfies everyone.

[popsiclebrandon]

Is this where we talk about the racism of zoning laws or is that a coffee house subject?

[dcluley98]

In general, increased density is desirable downtown and near real transit. TRDs and increased transportation options would help as well so people can have alternative/public transportation such as  a bike/bus/increased SunRail and live further out in clusters along those connections where land/rent is cheaper compared to DT.  Rents still seem to keep going up no matter what the supply that is produced, but I am hoping more development in Parramore and UCF/VD area will help to change that.  Those seem to be more affordable and will help to adjust the market to cheaper options on average. 

[orlandouprise]

8 hours ago, gibby said:

Downtown rents are low in Atlanta and Philadelphia.  Seems strange.

When I say Atlanta, I personally Midtown, Buckhead, Atlantic Station...very urban areas. To me DT Atlanta is more of a true CBD with little of anything else.

[leondecollao]

Bungalower posted a video tour of the project on facebook yesterday.....and what an impressive project it is. Won’t be cheap, we know, but this is premium all the way with a tremendous location, tremendous views and we’ll finally get that food hall we’ve wanted. I was hugely skeptical when such a large project was first proposed for the lot but this one’s a winner. 

[popsiclebrandon]

47 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

I spoke with two different vendors that are supposed to be in the Yard and they are concerned about delays. They did not provide much more detail.

Oops, just posted this and realized it is south Orlando section and not Ivanhoe.

I would be surprised by this. Only one of the original tenants is possibly pulling out and they already have the replacement lined up. They still have 2 spots to fill.