Brightline Trains

[aent]

10 hours ago, I am Reality said:

Let me state the obvious...the Brightline project is not for Orlando.

It's for the tourists.

Another slight on the local residents.

Wake me when the developers find it economically feasible to bring it downtown.

And it isn't getting our tax dollars. Its a win because we, as residents, can get a nice train without having to raise our taxes, and we can utilize it as we please. Infact, if it brings more tourists here, its a huge win as more tax dollars will be available for downtown and the rest of Orlando.

Considering our system for "the locals" (SunRail) is a huge boondoggle that literally doesn't even collect enough money to cover the cost of collecting money, let alone operating the trains or paying for its cost, I'm glad thats the approach we got with this system. And it has the infrastructure to support those who want to take the Magic Express to Disney, or want to rent a car, or take a bus to whatever hotel they're staying at, versus downtown where we'd have to hope all of those services are recreated (and they won't be)

[I am Reality]

Brightline is designed for getting tourists from the airport to Miami.

The intended flow of Brightline traffic is OUT of Orlando (and back).  That's why the station is at the freaking airport.  If I were a Disney or Universal, I would hate it.  It would mean less tourist dollars for me, as the tourists would be spending LESS time here.

As for convenience, it will take me 3 toll roads and an hour + to get there from downtown.

That gets to another failure of local politicians....failing to build the Central Connector.  We have no easy/direct route from downtown to the airport!  Who's half-assed idea was that? 

[HankStrong]

I'll stand against Negative Nancy on this one, too. 

I see BL as both a win and a very positive thing for the region.  Plus, as a train lover, and someone who frequently drives to SE FL I'm excited to try it and save myself a ton of pain.

[alex]

I love Brightline as a whole, but always lamented that they didn't come to downtown Orlando. But maybe there's still hope with all the expansion they're planning.

I'm really disappointed in Lake Nona's lack of public transit. Early on it was partially billed as an "aerotropolis," a community where you can hop on a flight real quick and get to anywhere in the world and anyone can visit us for top-notch medical treatment, education, and recreation. So far it's just a generic suburb in an "aircraft noise overlay district" with no easy way to get to the airport (or the train station).

[sunshine]

Entire Lake Nona is a giant suburbs that is waste of opportunity.

[gibby]

It was a massive missed opportunity for them to not have a stop downtown.  The airport, along with State money, has built the big facility for them.  The Mayor is on the airport board.  He should have required at least some kind of plan for downtown to be connected before agreeing to build the facility.  OUC owns the existing spur that connects the airport to the Sunrail tracks.  He's on the OUC board too.  The State owns the Sunrail tracks.  Maybe the State agreement on the Sunrail tracks prohibits other users (besides Amtrak) to use those tracks.  I don't know but something could have been done.  

[shardoon]

10 hours ago, I am Reality said:

Brightline is designed for getting tourists from the airport to Miami.

The intended flow of Brightline traffic is OUT of Orlando (and back).  That's why the station is at the freaking airport.  If I were a Disney or Universal, I would hate it.  It would mean less tourist dollars for me, as the tourists would be spending LESS time here.

As for convenience, it will take me 3 toll roads and an hour + to get there from downtown.

That gets to another failure of local politicians....failing to build the Central Connector.  We have no easy/direct route from downtown to the airport!  Who's half-assed idea was that? 

I don't understand your logic. There are many people in South Florida that visit Disney and actually stay at the resort.  Seems like a fairly easy trip would be to take the train to Orlando and then hope on Magical Express.  Yes, some will do side trips to Miami, but I have to think the same is true for the opposite.  Miami has a huge Latin population and has many visitors from South America. I can just as easily see them doing a side trip to Orlando with their family for the parks.  

[spenser1058]

The Central Connector was shot down by the fine burghers of the City of Edgewood. They were able to do so by statutes passed by the Florida Legislature when I4 was originally built. OOCEA, Orlando and Orange County were all apoplectic about it but the NIMBYs had an avenue and used it. Pro-transit folks quietly smiled and hoped for light rail or something to materialize.

[I am Reality]

42 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

The Central Connector was shot down by the fine burghers of the City of Edgewood. They were able to do so by statutes passed by the Florida Legislature when I4 was originally built. OOCEA, Orlando and Orange County were all apoplectic about it but the NIMBYs had an avenue and used it. Pro-transit folks quietly smiled and hoped for light rail or something to materialize.

The failure to build the Central Connector is part of the reason Orlando is so decentralized. There is no wheel-and-spoke layout, or at least an incomplete one. 

Has there been any talk to revive it? It's more needed now than ever. We need easy access to the airport.

Edited March 23, 2018 by I am Reality

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, I am Reality said:

The failure to build the Central Connector is part of the reason Orlando is so decentralized. There is no wheel-and-spoke layout, or at least an incomplete one. 

Has there been any talk to revive it? It's more needed now than ever. We need easy access to the airport.

I-4 to TNPK to 528, or 408 to SR 436.  Is the Central Connector what would have been an elevated expressway over Orange Ave or the RR easement or both, picking up around where Michigan St. is?

[spenser1058]

7 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

I-4 to TNPK to 528, or 408 to SR 436.  Is the Central Connector what would have been an elevated expressway over Orange Ave or the RR easement or both, picking up around where Michigan St. is?

That was the one.

[jrs2]

7 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

That was the one.

could they have done it, i.e., did they have the space to do it?

[spenser1058]

Just now, jrs2 said:

could they have done it, i.e., did they have the space to do it?

They had the space just to the west of the tracks if I remember but then residents of Edgewood used the statute WP originally passed to move I4 west and the road was no longer feasible. Funny thing is those areas today aren't much to write home about, but to do it now would anger the transit lobby that would be opposed to any new roads to the airport. They much prefer the SCL/OUC railroad connection. Between the residents and the transit folks, it's unlikely to happen at this point.

[jrs2]

7 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

They had the space just to the west of the tracks if I remember but then residents of Edgewood used the statute WP originally passed to move I4 west and the road was no longer feasible. Funny thing is those areas today aren't much to write home about, but to do it now would anger the transit lobby that would be opposed to any new roads to the airport. They much prefer the SCL/OUC railroad connection. Between the residents and the transit folks, it's unlikely to happen at this point.

I know this is Brightline thread, but regarding the Sunrail Phase III, is that still something they can get money to do?

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, jrs2 said:

I know this is Brightline thread, but regarding the Sunrail Phase III, is that still something they can get money to do?

Probably only if there's a big change in Tallahassee come November.

[jrs2]

22 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Probably only if there's a big change in Tallahassee come November.

What about more Federal dollars.  Didn't "He" campaign on infrastructure improvements?

[spenser1058]

2 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

What about more Federal dollars.  Didn't "He" campaign on infrastructure improvements?

That seems to have been mostly campaign hype as there's been no real move forward on infrastructure yet (given the total disarray of his administration - we've never gone through so many appointees and left so many positions unfilled before - but even if he decides tomorrow is the day to do it, the GOP leadership in Congress wants nothing to do with transit.

[jrs2]

6 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

That seems to have been mostly campaign hype as there's been no real move forward on infrastructure yet (given the total disarray of his administration - we've never gone through so many appointees and left so many positions unfilled before - but even if he decides tomorrow is the day to do it, the GOP leadership in Congress wants nothing to do with transit.

true.   At least with Mica, we had some juice...

[Dale]

7 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

true.   At least with Mica, we had some juice...

Central Floridians got tired of Mica doing stuff for them.

[jgardnerucf]

Ah, we're back to talking about the Connector again eh?

[steve_o]

On 3/23/2018 at 2:21 AM, I am Reality said:

Brightline is designed for getting tourists from the airport to Miami.

The intended flow of Brightline traffic is OUT of Orlando (and back).  That's why the station is at the freaking airport.  If I were a Disney or Universal, I would hate it.  It would mean less tourist dollars for me, as the tourists would be spending LESS time here.

As for convenience, it will take me 3 toll roads and an hour + to get there from downtown.

That gets to another failure of local politicians....failing to build the Central Connector.  We have no easy/direct route from downtown to the airport!  Who's half-assed idea was that? 

This is correct.  Brightline is not being built for Orlando residents.  Its intent is to lure the 65 million + tourists to visit S Florida for a few days (I still believe for future casinos).  Look at the south Floirda stations in comparison to Orlando.  They are all centrally located and will have massive real estate built up on site.  Orlando gets a maintenance facility and a turnstile for the numbers.  

Would have been great to go through downtown Orlando but thats not the draw or where the money is in this town!

[jrs2]

13 minutes ago, steve_o said:

This is correct.  Brightline is not being built for Orlando residents.  Its intent is to lure the 65 million + tourists to visit S Florida for a few days (I still believe for future casinos).  Look at the south Floirda stations in comparison to Orlando.  They are all centrally located and will have massive real estate built up on site.  Orlando gets a maintenance facility and a turnstile for the numbers.  

Would have been great to go through downtown Orlando but thats not the draw or where the money is in this town!

I have to admit that I was shocked when I first learned that the rail line Brightline was going to use was the FEC rail line which went right through the central part of those cities.  With that in mind there is no reason why they couldn't extend it up to downtown (logistically).

I think there's a heavy Miami contingent that would come up here for the theme parks.  If there wasn't, Disney I'm sure would've politicked Scott to not give $$$ for the intermodal center at OIA if they feared a threat to their bottom line.

[codypet]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I have to admit that I was shocked when I first learned that the rail line Brightline was going to use was the FEC rail line which went right through the central part of those cities.  With that in mind there is no reason why they couldn't extend it up to downtown (logistically).

Track ownership is the issue as well as how straight the Sunrail tracks are vs. FEC.  They're having a hell of a time getting off the ground with all the NIMBY's in those SoFla cities.

[alex]

Orlando International Airport exec shares more on Brightline's timeline, plans

via OBJ

Not sure if this article was posted already, but a few good tidbits:

• Orlando leg to be operational by the end of 2020 or the beginning of 2021
• Coming down from State Road 528, coming to the property from past Narcoossee Road through Lake Nona, start to come on property on the northern edge underneath Goldenrod Road
• 70-acre Vehicle Maintenance Facility built on Orlando International Airport property

[jrs2]

42 minutes ago, alex said:

Orlando International Airport exec shares more on Brightline's timeline, plans

via OBJ

Not sure if this article was posted already, but a few good tidbits:

• Orlando leg to be operational by the end of 2020 or the beginning of 2021
• Coming down from State Road 528, coming to the property from past Narcoossee Road through Lake Nona, start to come on property on the northern edge underneath Goldenrod Road
• 70-acre Vehicle Maintenance Facility built on Orlando International Airport property

And if I recall, 8 of the 12 trains will be based here.