Brightline Trains

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Well I am aware that deadlines have been set but have been extended twice. Also I was listening and reading to some of Darren Soto comments, supposedly Brightline is considering letting Sunrail use their tracks. Seems fare to me if Brightline will be using Sunrail tracks and some Stations. If Sunrail can use these tracks then not only do we have a connection to MCO but potentially have a way to get to UCF in the phase 1 construction. Expansion to International Drive and the tourist areas, and  Haines city may become available using phase 2 tracks to Tampa. At the rate some of these negotiations are going I’ll be dead before I can enjoy a true comprehensive transit system.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

3 hours ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Well I am aware that deadlines have been set but have been extended twice. Also I was listening and reading to some of Darren Soto comments, supposedly Brightline is considering letting Sunrail use their tracks. Seems fare to me if Brightline will be using Sunrail tracks and some Stations. If Sunrail can use these tracks then not only do we have a connection to MCO but potentially have a way to get to UCF in the phase 1 construction. Expansion to International Drive and the tourist areas, and  Haines city may become available using phase 2 tracks to Tampa. At the rate some of these negotiations are going I’ll be dead before I can enjoy a true comprehensive transit system.

Share tracks with Sunrail? 

Why? 

They run in different directions? 

I'm confused... 

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

Share tracks with Sunrail? 

Why? 

They run in different directions? 

I'm confused... 

I guess I’m odd. I’d rather upgrade Amtrak, board at a historic terminal near downtown and not line Rick Scott’s pockets. But that’s just me.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

2 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I guess I’m odd. I’d rather upgrade Amtrak, board at a historic terminal near downtown and not line Rick Scott’s pockets. But that’s just me.

That's fine. But why would the trains need to share tracks if they don't run in the same direction? 

I'm likely over thinking. Lol

[WAJAS]

21 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

That's fine. But why would the trains need to share tracks if they don't run in the same direction? 

I'm likely over thinking. Lol

Share tracks between them SunRail mainline and the airport.

 

The current plan is Brightline will following the OUC line from the airport to the Sunrail mainline. Then it will follow the Sunrail mainline until 417.

They’re already sharing ROW in the Sunrail mainline for a bit. The new proposal is for Sunrail to share the tracks with Brightline to the airport from the Sunrail mainline.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

17 minutes ago, WAJAS98 said:

Share tracks between them SunRail mainline and the airport.

 

The current plan is Brightline will following the OUC line from the airport to the Sunrail mainline. Then it will follow the Sunrail mainline until 417.

They’re already sharing ROW in the Sunrail mainline for a bit. The new proposal is for Sunrail to share the tracks with Brightline to the airport from the Sunrail mainline.

But if the terminus is the airport for Brightline, why would it need to go past the airport? 

[spenser1058]

27 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

But if the terminus is the airport for Brightline, why would it need to go past the airport? 

That’s assuming the Tampa run happens.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

4 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

That’s assuming the Tampa run happens.

Ahhhh okay. Thank you 

[aent]

Any articles on this sharing of tracks? I only heard they were interested in sharing ROW and some costs that they both would incur related to routing to the airport, but not the actual tracks themselves.

Then again, I've heard in South Florida they've been open to having Tri Rail setting up the coastal route on their tracks. Kind of, maybe.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

I believe Brightline is already allowing TriRail to connect to the Miami Central Station vía brightline tracks. Would only make sense to allow Sunrail to use the Brightline corridor(Our OUC Spur)en route to MCO. 

[jliv]

But if the terminus is the airport for Brightline, why would it need to go past the airport? 

Rep. Darren Soto actually approached Virgin Trains USA officials with the idea of sharing tracks from a point somewhere north of Meadow Woods station to 417, as a way to move forward from the stalled Sunrail Phase 3 project. It makes a lot of sense. The Obama-era high speed proposal studies found that the section planned from the airport to tourist district destinations was the only section of the entire route which could actually make money. This is a big reason Rep. John Mina didn’t get behind the route, and encouraged Gov. Scott to reject the stimulus funds. I’m sure this is not lost on Virgin Trains USA, because the proposal for the overall project emerged not long the cancellation on the Tampa-Orlando high speed project.


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[Urban Mail Carrier]

Isn’t 417 south of Meadowoods?

[HankStrong]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 8:32 AM, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Seems fare to me if Brightline will be using Sunrail tracks

*rimshot*  Train jokes!

 

 

 

Yes North of Meadow Woods station heading South to 417.  That's what they meant to say.

[codypet]

On 12/7/2019 at 8:32 AM, Urban Mail Carrier said:

Well I am aware that deadlines have been set but have been extended twice. Also I was listening and reading to some of Darren Soto comments, supposedly Brightline is considering letting Sunrail use their tracks. Seems fare to me if Brightline will be using Sunrail tracks and some Stations. If Sunrail can use these tracks then not only do we have a connection to MCO but potentially have a way to get to UCF in the phase 1 construction. Expansion to International Drive and the tourist areas, and  Haines city may become available using phase 2 tracks to Tampa. At the rate some of these negotiations are going I’ll be dead before I can enjoy a true comprehensive transit system.

It'd likely be OUC letting Brightline use the R/W.  Sunrail won't fit on VT's tracks for reasons I've stated before.  

On 12/7/2019 at 12:31 PM, WAJAS98 said:

Share tracks between them SunRail mainline and the airport.

 

The current plan is Brightline will following the OUC line from the airport to the Sunrail mainline. Then it will follow the Sunrail mainline until 417.

They’re already sharing ROW in the Sunrail mainline for a bit. The new proposal is for Sunrail to share the tracks with Brightline to the airport from the Sunrail mainline.

The "connector" for lack of a better word between Sunrail and VT/Airport is seen as a major priority to keep Sunrail afloat so everyone is negotiating on how to get that done where everyone gets what they want.  Those discussions have been going on for years.  I haven't heard anyone is close to a deal yet.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Hmmm well I don’t suppose representative Darren Soto is an engineer and I certainly don’t know where he is obtaining his information. He is on public record saying that Sunrail is compatible enough to use Brightline tracks. 
This does make me wonder though, TriRail will be using Brightline tracks and I am under the impression that Sunrail and TriRail use the same locomotive and train sets. So if TriRail can travel on these tracks why not Sunrail. Please cure my ignorance if I am mistaken.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Urban Mail Carrier

[HankStrong]

We've kinda talked about most of this before.

SunRail uses standard gauge rails.  Virgin uses standard gauge rails.  Everyone in the mix is using 4'-8.5" rails.  They both can use the exact same tracks.  This is what lets SunRail and Amtrak and CSX use the same rails.  The rails aren't the issue.

There are several differences in the dimensions of the rolling stock (the actual trains) which could cause problems, but mostly DO NOT seem to cause a ton of problems.   I don't see the problems that people keep mentioning.  If someone knows more than I do, please correct me.

See below:

 

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 1:42 PM, HankStrong said:

Brightline uses the Siemens SCB-40     https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siemens_Charger

They don't seem to list what brand of cars they use, but they are ~10' wide and single-level

SunRail uses the MotivePower MP32PH-Q      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPI_MPXpress#MP32PH-Q

They use Bombardier which are bi-level and taller, but usually locomotives are as tall as a bi-level car, but the trains are still ~10' wide. 

 

I'm not sure how the trains can't use the same stations??  They are both heavy rail and run on standard gauge tracks.  I know Brightline also uses retractable decking to bridge the "Mind the Gap" problem.  I'm not saying you are incorrect, I'm just saying there isn't anything in the surface data that makes it seem that they couldn't use the same stations.  The engines are roughly the same-ish dimensions.  BL - 71.5' long, 10' wide, and 15.5' tall and SR - 68' long, 10.5' wide, and 16' tall. 

I'm assuming the Brightline trains will have a lot more cars than a SunRail train, but you either extend the decking OR (as is the case in many old Euro stations) post that anyone looking to transfer to SunRail @ the Meadow Woods Station must sit in cars X, Y, and Z which will open and line up with the shorter platform.  There seems to be plenty of room to lengthen the Meadow Woods station, though.

 

 

[HankStrong]

Tri-Rail is currently using similar, but not identical rolling stock.

They are supposedly using Brookville BL36PH engines with the Hyundai Rotem coach cars.

[codypet]

The locomotive isn't the problem.  Its the coaches.  How they load passengers and how tall they are that's the problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_BiLevel_Coach

Tri-rail at MC has a separate platform to get around the platform issue, but GOAA's platforms are already built out.

There's ways around it, but its gonna take $$$.

Edited December 9, 2019 by codypet

[gibby]

Other than maybe the immediate area near the station, why can't both systems use the same tracks between the airport and the main Sunrail line?

[codypet]

18 minutes ago, gibby said:

Other than maybe the immediate area near the station, why can't both systems use the same tracks between the airport and the main Sunrail line?

They can as long as they can clear bridges, power lines and signals, but still $$$.

Edited December 9, 2019 by codypet

[WAJAS]

44 minutes ago, codypet said:

They can as long as they can clear bridges, power lines and signals, but still $$$.

And if the frequency of trains isn’t too high. The only so many trains can run on one set of tracks.

[WAJAS]

44 minutes ago, codypet said:

They can as long as they can clear bridges, power lines and signals, but still $$$.

And if the frequency of trains isn’t too high. The only so many trains can run on one set of tracks.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

Also what’s to say Sunrail will be using the Same stations. Just because a station works for Brightline , Sunrail May build another station along the same tracks that’s more accommodating to Orlando residents . A station that makes sense economically from a developer point of view for Orlando. Thanks for the information ppl I’ve learned a lot.

[HankStrong]

2 hours ago, codypet said:

The locomotive isn't the problem.  Its the coaches.  How they load passengers and how tall they are that's the problem.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombardier_BiLevel_Coach

Tri-rail at MC has a separate platform to get around the platform issue, but GOAA's platforms are already built out.

There's ways around it, but its gonna take $$$.

Excellent graphic.

I'm pretty sure, with this info, the loading deck height is the issue for the SunRail coaches.  Although, overall they are still under 16' tall, which is the average height for most of the widely used locomotives.

[shardoon]

Why didn't the GOAA make the intermodal center flexible for multiple types of train service. Heck, in fact, the intermodal center was designed when only Florida High Speed Rail and Sunrail were planned. How did it get to being obly able to be build out for Virgin Trains? What am I missing?