Brightline Trains

[WAJAS]

1 hour ago, gibby said:

So that people traveling from Miami to Jacksonville would avoid stopping in Orlando to change trains, for example.

Oh, so for like transfers. That's interesting.

Depending on the frequency of trains, it might be just as fast to transfer in Orlando. If the the train you'd be transferring in either scenario are actually the same train, then the only difference would be the length of the layover and location.

They might want to consolidate transfers in Orlando though because its large size and amenities means people wouldn't mind waiting there. However, it would add about an hour to the trip, which means it might barely edge out traveling by car.

[smileguy]

16 hours ago, gibby said:

So that people traveling from Miami to Jacksonville would avoid stopping in Orlando to change trains, for example.

Why not a direct train between Miami and Jax that doesn't stop in Cocoa and doesn't come to Orlando?

[Urban Mail Carrier]

I don’t think ( correct me if I’m wrong) that a line alone from Miami to Jacksonville would be profitable. Jacksonville is not a destination.

[gibby]

2 hours ago, smileguy said:

Why not a direct train between Miami and Jax that doesn't stop in Cocoa and doesn't come to Orlando?

If they want to keep their hourly schedule down south, then that would give them two trains running the same route every hour, with one branching off for Orlando and the other continuing on to Jax.  It would be cheaper to have one train from Miami to Cocoa and then passengers would choose between Jax and Orlando.

22 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

I don’t think ( correct me if I’m wrong) that a line alone from Miami to Jacksonville would be profitable. Jacksonville is not a destination.

I agree but if the Southeast High Speed Rail efforts continue and it eventually reaches Jax, then the demand would be huge.  They're already making good progress from DC to Richmond and some progress from Richmond to Raleigh.

[aent]

1 hour ago, gibby said:

I agree but if the Southeast High Speed Rail efforts continue and it eventually reaches Jax, then the demand would be huge.  They're already making good progress from DC to Richmond and some progress from Richmond to Raleigh.

Honestly unless this happens I can't really see why Brightline would really want to bother with Jacksonville. Clearly its not a priority since they already have tracks, it'd likely be far cheaper to extend to Jacksonville next instead of Tampa, but they're obviously not going that route. I think they left Jax as a long term plan in case the situation with Jax changes, such as that corridor getting completed. Even so, I think you're starting to get into too long of a distance for people beyond Jax where they'd just rather fly to save time. It seems unlikely that route is going to be as fast as Brightline or any sort of actual high speed rail.

[WAJAS]

I think Jacksonville is about as far as high-speed rail makes sense. I wouldn't take it from Miami to Atlanta, which would likely be the next big destination after Jacksonville. However, Orlando to Atlanta through Jacksonville might make sense depending on the speeds of the line in Georgia. Orlando is evidently going to become the hub for the area tho, so if I did go Miami to Atlanta it would probably stop in Orlando.

[dcluley98]

I think I always saw a plan from Jax to Savannah. I would definitely do that trip from Orlando. 

[codypet]

On 12/4/2020 at 7:48 PM, dcluley98 said:

I think I always saw a plan from Jax to Savannah. I would definitely do that trip from Orlando. 

You go to Savanah, you just as well should go to Charleston. 

[HankStrong]

That's the thing, Savannah and Charleston would be great.  It's not always the entire route that's interesting, it's the combo in between that is.

 

• Miami to Orlando?  Great!
• Orlando to Savannah?  Great!
• Jax to Tampa?  Great!
• Charleston to Savannah?  Great!
• Savannah to DC?  Great!
• Richmond to Charleston?  Great!

I don't think DC to Miami is likely the focus, but the options in between.  However, someone could then theoretically do that.  My uncle rode trains as his preference.  He was unable to drive due to medical problems and rode them back and forth across the country many times.  He was scared of flying and unable to drive.  He found Amtrak preferable to a bus.  I don't think he's the target of anyone's marketing, though, as he's well outside the normal user.

 

[spenser1058]

11 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

That's the thing, Savannah and Charleston would be great.  It's not always the entire route that's interesting, it's the combo in between that is.

 

• Miami to Orlando?  Great!
• Orlando to Savannah?  Great!
• Jax to Tampa?  Great!
• Charleston to Savannah?  Great!
• Savannah to DC?  Great!
• Richmond to Charleston?  Great!

I don't think DC to Miami is likely the focus, but the options in between.  However, someone could then theoretically do that.  My uncle rode trains as his preference.  He was unable to drive due to medical problems and rode them back and forth across the country many times.  He was scared of flying and unable to drive.  He found Amtrak preferable to a bus.  I don't think he's the target of anyone's marketing, though, as he's well outside the normal user.

 

Don’t forget if you’re promoting historical travel that the FEC tracks go right through St. Augustine as well. In fact, the one-time headquarters buildings (which were still in good shape the last tIme I saw them but not being used as the railroad decamped for Jax some time back) are right along the rails.

[smileguy]

7 hours ago, HankStrong said:

That's the thing, Savannah and Charleston would be great.  It's not always the entire route that's interesting, it's the combo in between that is.

• Miami to Orlando?  Great!
• Orlando to Savannah?  Great!
• Jax to Tampa?  Great!
• Charleston to Savannah?  Great!
• Savannah to DC?  Great!
• Richmond to Charleston?  Great!

I don't think DC to Miami is likely the focus, but the options in between.  However, someone could then theoretically do that.  My uncle rode trains as his preference.  He was unable to drive due to medical problems and rode them back and forth across the country many times.  He was scared of flying and unable to drive.  He found Amtrak preferable to a bus.  I don't think he's the target of anyone's marketing, though, as he's well outside the normal user.

I rode Amtrak from Orlando to Flagstaff, AZ (via DC and Chicago) the summer after I graduated High School. It was a wonderful experience - a great way to see the country - except for the first leg out of Orlando - filled full of families with kids coming down off their Disney highs. 

[prahaboheme]

10 hours ago, HankStrong said:

That's the thing, Savannah and Charleston would be great.  It's not always the entire route that's interesting, it's the combo in between that is.

 

• Miami to Orlando?  Great!
• Orlando to Savannah?  Great!
• Jax to Tampa?  Great!
• Charleston to Savannah?  Great!
• Savannah to DC?  Great!
• Richmond to Charleston?  Great!

I don't think DC to Miami is likely the focus, but the options in between.  However, someone could then theoretically do that.  My uncle rode trains as his preference.  He was unable to drive due to medical problems and rode them back and forth across the country many times.  He was scared of flying and unable to drive.  He found Amtrak preferable to a bus.  I don't think he's the target of anyone's marketing, though, as he's well outside the normal user.

 

Totally agree with this.  I did a train ride between Paris and Berlin.  During that time I was able to jump off in Brussels and Cologne -- places that really weren't on the itinerary at the time and yet made the trip worthwhile. 

[HankStrong]

On 12/14/2020 at 10:47 PM, prahaboheme said:

Totally agree with this.  I did a train ride between Paris and Berlin.  During that time I was able to jump off in Brussels and Cologne -- places that really weren't on the itinerary at the time and yet made the trip worthwhile. 

I've done the same trip, but added in London, Frankfurt, and Amsterdam

[Jernigan]

Even today, Amtrak is my mode of choice for getting to Savannah.  Don’t need a car up there and the additional time is minimal enough that the improved quality of life getting there and back  more that makes up for it.

[spenser1058]

And now, we’re gonna have the Amtrak president and Mayor Pete at DOT. All aboard, America, all aboard Amtrak! There’s something about a train...

[aent]

34 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

And now, we’re gonna have the Amtrak president and Mayor Pete at DOT. All aboard, America, all aboard Amtrak! There’s something about a train...

Unfortunately that sounds like terrible news for Florida! We aren't an Amtrak state, Floridians were more interested in a state of the art, modern train system that is privately funded instead of extremely slow trains that are uncomfortable and full of homeless people.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

State of the art is nice but what good is it if your priced out? Well reserve judgment once the darn system is up and running. As for homeless ppl I certainly haven’t seen it on AMTRAK. 

[spenser1058]

31 minutes ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

State of the art is nice but what good is it if your priced out? Well reserve judgment once the darn system is up and running. As for homeless ppl I certainly haven’t seen it on AMTRAK. 

It’s also notable Amtrak is back and running (albeit with some reduction in service) compared to Brightline. God help you if you NEEDED Brightline to get anywhere.  
 
Not to mention the fact Amtrak was providing service throughout Florida for decades when FECRR couldn’t be bothered with passenger rail and actively  kept Amtrak from using its rails, leaving a huge chunk of the state’s east coast without rail service.

Let’s also note it’s  Amtrak that provides service from Downtown Orlando, Winter Park and Kissimmee, which is what folks in here are always clamoring for. Meanwhile, Brightline is primarily interested in the tourists at MCO and WDW.

Once again, residents are left to pick up the scraps from the tourism industry.

Edited December 18, 2020 by spenser1058

[WAJAS]

14 hours ago, aent said:

Unfortunately that sounds like terrible news for Florida! We aren't an Amtrak state, Floridians were more interested in a state of the art, modern train system that is privately funded instead of extremely slow trains that are uncomfortable and full of homeless people.

Biden at least has shown to not be pro-Amtrak at the expense of innovation. He is one of the main reasons why Acela exists and was a proponent of the high-speed rail initiative under Obama. Pete has less of a history to dissect in this area though.

[aent]

Yes, the high speed rail initiative that has literally nothing to show for it after spending $8 billion.

[WAJAS]

16 hours ago, aent said:

Yes, the high speed rail initiative that has literally nothing to show for it after spending $8 billion.

Well a large portion of that funding never actually made it to the projects after 2010 due to the change in legislature. Then, Trump's admin cancelled the remaining billion dollars that California was allotted.

The northeast corridor funding has allowed trains to travel faster over there. It also indirectly resulted in the improvement of rail infrastructure in many corridors through the "projects laying the foundation for high-speed passenger rail" category, which improved rails in California, Michigan, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia, and a few others I can't recall. I also don't think its a coincidence that all of these private projects came up after the government started pursuing it. The increased investment prompted the interest of the private companies.

But that is all beside the point. I don't understand your position. You originally stated the following.

On 12/18/2020 at 10:18 AM, aent said:

Unfortunately that sounds like terrible news for Florida! We aren't an Amtrak state, Floridians were more interested in a state of the art, modern train system that is privately funded instead of extremely slow trains that are uncomfortable and full of homeless people.

This says that Biden is bad for Florida because we would rather have high-speed rail. I then show you where Biden has supported high-speed rail. You also point out that you prefer the privately run system, and Biden has made no indication that he is against or would impede private passenger rail. I don't see how this is bad for Florida per your points. At the very least, it is neutral is Floridians truly don't care about Amtrak, which is a pretty significant assumption.

Edited December 20, 2020 by WAJAS

[aent]

Brightline says they want the WDW station open by the end of 2023, approximately a year after the MCO station is supposed to open:

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2020/12/23/brightline-disney-springs-station-timeline.html

[codypet]

Orlando to Miami was supposed to start running in 2014, then 2016, then 2020 just for perspective.

[smileguy]

2 minutes ago, codypet said:

Orlando to Miami was supposed to start running in 2014, then 2016, then 2020 just for perspective.

And Dr. Phillips Center had a big "2012" flag flying over the site for years.

Maybe if someone other than  Mayor-For-Life Buddy "The Dozer" Dyer was in office, these large, expensive, and complicated projects that depend on public interest and outside investment would have appeared out of the ground overnight. 

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, smileguy said:

And Dr. Phillips Center had a big "2012" flag flying over the site for years.

Maybe if someone other than  Mayor-For-Life Buddy "The Dozer" Dyer was in office, these large, expensive, and complicated projects that depend on public interest and outside investment would have appeared out of the ground overnight. 

It’s also helpful of course when said person doesn’t divert monies to his billionaire buddies who don’t share the community’s values when the priority should have been to finish DPCPA first as borne out by several polls. Good way to rewrite history!

Brightline is another issue entirely. It’s worth noting when your priorities have little to do with providing the actual service how it muddies the results. Which, of course, is why Amtrak has been operating for decades (including currently). It’s also worth noting this organization has had problems before with its operations (in Canada) and its onetime partner Virgin was so bad they were removed from rail routes in the UK. Of course, Medicare Fraud Rick Scott has never been bothered with schemes to feather one’s nest.

Bottom line: if your priorities are diluted, the service you provide suffers accordingly.

Edited December 30, 2020 by spenser1058