Brightline Trains

[aent]

5 hours ago, jack said:

Lucky for them!

Not quote. My understanding is as a result of Uber, Lyft, Disney's Minnie Rides, etc, they lost so much business they stopped building their new facility mid way through. It was no longer feasible, and they sold most of the company off around the same time. Since then, I believe they have lost UCF as a customer, Disney's dropping them at the end of the year, and not much else seems to be going their way. Mears looks like they're on its death bed. And its among the most deserved of anybody.

[jrs2]

12 minutes ago, aent said:

Not quote. My understanding is as a result of Uber, Lyft, Disney's Minnie Rides, etc, they lost so much business they stopped building their new facility mid way through. It was no longer feasible, and they sold most of the company off around the same time. Since then, I believe they have lost UCF as a customer, Disney's dropping them at the end of the year, and not much else seems to be going their way. Mears looks like they're on its death bed. And its among the most deserved of anybody.

too bad it didn't happen five years ago when Globvalia was trying to negotiate with MCO...  they caused their damage now they are bowing out gracefully...

[spenser1058]

20 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

too bad it didn't happen five years ago when Globvalia was trying to negotiate with MCO...  they caused their damage now they are bowing out gracefully...

A lot of Mears’ business was based on handshake deals over the years. As the players (people like Dick Nunis) who golfed with the scions of the family moved on, those who weren’t around when the deals were put together questioned them. Once the company got sold, it became purely corporate decisions. It’s just one more way the old Orlando is passing by.

In some ways, it’s like the end of the Champ Williams era, albeit with a lot less drama. 

The only good FFO tussle at the moment is Luma and the Battaglias.
 

Edited June 16, 2021 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

32 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

A lot of Mears’ business was based on handshake deals over the years. As the players (people like Dick Nunis) who golfed with the scions of the family moved on, those who weren’t around when the deals were put together questioned them. Once the company got sold, it became purely corporate decisions. It’s just one more way the old Orlando is passing by.

In some ways, it’s like the end of the Champ Williams era, albeit with a lot less drama. 

The only good FFO tussle at the moment is Luma and the Battaglias.
 

Ok.  I just traced on google map the entire line from US-1 to MCO for BL.  This is a very big undertaking; bridges, tunnels, clearings...wow... that's $$$ right there.

As for Luma, you  mean Luma from Park Ave, right?  What's going on with that? (maybe continue in the WP thread?)

[spenser1058]

28 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Ok.  I just traced on google map the entire line from US-1 to MCO for BL.  This is a very big undertaking; bridges, tunnels, clearings...wow... that's $$$ right there.

As for Luma, you  mean Luma from Park Ave, right?  What's going on with that? (maybe continue in the WP thread?)

It’s dueling lawsuits between Luma and their landlord (one of the Battaglias). Scott J is covering it and you can find it in the WP thread. Speaking of which, the Holler family, who used to control most of the Ave., has been very quiet lately. Wonder what’s up with that?

[jack]

3 hours ago, aent said:

Not quote. My understanding is as a result of Uber, Lyft, Disney's Minnie Rides, etc, they lost so much business they stopped building their new facility mid way through. It was no longer feasible, and they sold most of the company off around the same time. Since then, I believe they have lost UCF as a customer, Disney's dropping them at the end of the year, and not much else seems to be going their way. Mears looks like they're on its death bed. And its among the most deserved of anybody.

Nevermind. I thought they sold prior to all of that. 

[spenser1058]

Train Wars: The Sentinel goes in-depth on the players trying to pilot and derail Brightline between MCO and Disney:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/transportation/os-ne-brightline-pivotal-route-decision-20210715-fqrdxxccdjdlhalvfyqy3dqnqq-story.html

The ghost of Clarence Hoenstine lives on!

 

[Uncommon]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Train Wars: The Sentinel goes in-depth on the players trying to pilot and derail Brightline between MCO and Disney:

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/transportation/os-ne-brightline-pivotal-route-decision-20210715-fqrdxxccdjdlhalvfyqy3dqnqq-story.html

The ghost of Clarence Hoenstine lives on!

 

Wow smfh I should’ve known this would not happen. The theme parks exert far too much influence in central Florida. If Universal kills Brightline to Tampa, it’ll just be another piece of evidence that Orlando will always be a Mickey Mouse, second-rate city. Damn shame.

[jgardnerucf]

The construction of the sound walls down there are a ghost for the rail line IMO. They wouldn't be reinforcing deep along that route with the sight lines and cross over I4 with survey markers already done, no connection to BTU. Just sayin.   Been wanting to say this for weeks/months?

[jrs2]

10 hours ago, jgardnerucf said:

The construction of the sound walls down there are a ghost for the rail line IMO. They wouldn't be reinforcing deep along that route with the sight lines and cross over I4 with survey markers already done, no connection to BTU. Just sayin.   Been wanting to say this for weeks/months?

what exactly does that mean?  Also, what is BTU?  Thx.

[jrs2]

16 hours ago, Uncommon said:

Wow smfh I should’ve known this would not happen. The theme parks exert far too much influence in central Florida. If Universal kills Brightline to Tampa, it’ll just be another piece of evidence that Orlando will always be a Mickey Mouse, second-rate city. Damn shame.

Well, my take on the first leg between ORL and MIA is that it is a huge development for Orlando for tourism and business travelers and connectivity to Miami.  It's big; it's huge.  Even if that's all it ever becomes in the future.  You fly into the MCO mecca, and you can take a train to Miami, FTL, or PB.  How cool is that?  A stop at Port Canaveral or close by would have been nice, but Brevard shot down the expansion for rail freight a few years ago when they kicked out their former president b/c he made some remark against a NIMBY; so the new guy said "let's slow things down a bit..."  Ok, meanwhile JaxPort and the ports north of there in GA are bringing in automotive freight like it's going out of style.  Port Canaveral screwed up me thinks.  And this leads me to believe that Brevard wouldn't pony up anything to connect a BL stop near US-1 with PC and that they would expect BL to pay for it.  Maybe, maybe not...

The leg to Tampa... personally I feel that bypassing I-Drive and the OCCC is a major no no.  The County run OCCC has to position itself for survival and competitiveness into the future.  A BL station at it's doorstep would  help it greatly and would probably spurn new development there, more hotel rooms, etc.  I know Epic U is going to spurn new development there as well, off of Universal Blvd and the Kirkman Rd extension perhaps, but I mean more convention class hotel rooms along I-Drive near the stop.

A leg to Tampa that goes directly to WDW property benefits nobody other than WDW.  It would be tucked away behind tall pine trees on the west side of I-4.  But a route that goes to the OCCC and then to WDW benefits both.  DIsney, IMO, can stick it.  And they probably will have to b/c Universal is backed by Comcast...cha ching... and they see the utility and benefit.

Trust me, if FEC really needs that line to go to Tampa to make money or to WDW to make even more money between WDW and MCO, they will do what needs to be done to make it happen---throw a ton of money now knowing that future returns will be coming.

[jgardnerucf]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

what is BTU?

Beyond The Ultimate.

[Uncommon]

53 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

The leg to Tampa... personally I feel that bypassing I-Drive and the OCCC is a major no no.  The County run OCCC has to position itself for survival and competitiveness into the future.  A BL station at it's doorstep would  help it greatly and would probably spurn new development there, more hotel rooms, etc.  I know Epic U is going to spurn new development there as well, off of Universal Blvd and the Kirkman Rd extension perhaps, but I mean more convention class hotel rooms along I-Drive near the stop.

A leg to Tampa that goes directly to WDW property benefits nobody other than WDW.  It would be tucked away behind tall pine trees on the west side of I-4.  But a route that goes to the OCCC and then to WDW benefits both.  DIsney, IMO, can stick it.  And they probably will have to b/c Universal is backed by Comcast...cha ching... and they see the utility and benefit.

Trust me, if FEC really needs that line to go to Tampa to make money or to WDW to make even more money between WDW and MCO, they will do what needs to be done to make it happen---throw a ton of money now knowing that future returns will be coming.

Agreed entirely. But I don’t think your second to last paragraph is feasible. The route that goes to I-Drive and Disney is double the cost. Brightline has already all but said they will double the expense just to appease people who want Brightline to function as light rail with various stops within Orlando. Brightline is designed to stop less frequently, so why would they willingly pay more to operate in an unintended manner?

Also, your last paragraph is not that simple. I can totally see a scenario where Universal helps kill the train to Tampa entirely like a screaming child who doesn’t get their way: “if I can’t have it, nobody can.” The article discusses that something similar happened previously with light rail in the 90s. If Universal believes they are being left out of the cold, I cannot see them or Comcast or Orange County ponying up funds to get the more expensive route built, especially when Disney is not paying anything for the 417 route. Brightline wants that route and it feels like Universal is threatened. In all likelihood, if Universal wants to kill the train, they can and will. That’s a doomsday scenario.

[jrs2]

9 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

Agreed entirely. But I don’t think your second to last paragraph is feasible. The route that goes to I-Drive and Disney is double the cost. Brightline has already all but said they will double the expense just to appease people who want Brightline to function as light rail with various stops within Orlando. Brightline is designed to stop less frequently, so why would they willingly pay more to operate in an unintended manner?

Also, your last paragraph is not that simple. I can totally see a scenario where Universal helps kill the train to Tampa entirely like a screaming child who doesn’t get their way: “if I can’t have it, nobody can.” The article discusses that something similar happened previously with light rail in the 90s. If Universal believes they are being left out of the cold, I cannot see them or Comcast or Orange County ponying up funds to get the more expensive route built, especially when Disney is not paying anything for the 417 route. Brightline wants that route and it feels like Universal is threatened. In all likelihood, if Universal wants to kill the train, they can and will. That’s a doomsday scenario.

I thought that prior LRT proposal under Hood included a stop at Uni's parking deck by design.  Maybe not.

BL is already breaking protocol with this train.  Didn't they announce new stops in the Tri-County area of SoFla a few months back?  I thought they did.

I don't think it would be Universal killing it- maybe in the public eye it would be.  I think Orange County is backing Universal's stance but behind closed doors for various reasons.  GOAA already killed the Globalvia proposal; I can't see them not making a serious effort to remediate that with BL.  Sunrail ain't going there, ya know...  Shoot...BL may even link Sunrail to MCO ala Taft or Meadowoods Station, which would fix the non-funded $200M spur along OUC's line that FDOT can't afford or won't pay for.  So who knows what may happen.  Universal may pony up some $$$ along with Orange Co. and get some money from the State and Fed for the route change.

Just remember, when Scott nixed Obama-rail HSR, the BL plan was already secretly in the works and he knew it when he nixed it.  He foretold of possible private rail investment in the future which would make better financial sense for the State, and lo and behold, no sooner did he say this, did FEC announced their plan.  Wow!  Scott was a foretelling genius! 

So, just because the BL alignment to OCCC looks un-doable, it doesn't mean that it can't or won't get done.  It just means that we currently don't know how it's going to get paid for.  But you are correct, it is not that simple.  

[jliv]

20 hours ago, Uncommon said:

Wow smfh I should’ve known this would not happen. The theme parks exert far too much influence in central Florida. If Universal kills Brightline to Tampa, it’ll just be another piece of evidence that Orlando will always be a Mickey Mouse, second-rate city. Damn shame.

I love how the theme park unit of NBCUniversal, a subsidiary of Comcast, a $100 billion/year corporation, doesn't once mention how it plans to contribute to its wild plans for spending other people's money (i.e. the Brightline investors' money).  

Edited July 16, 2021 by jliv

[codypet]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

Just remember, when Scott nixed Obama-rail HSR, the BL plan was already secretly in the works and he knew it when he nixed it.  He foretold of possible private rail investment in the future which would make better financial sense for the State, and lo and behold, no sooner did he say this, did FEC announced their plan.  Wow!  Scott was a foretelling genius! 

So, just because the BL alignment to OCCC looks un-doable, it doesn't mean that it can't or won't get done.  It just means that we currently don't know how it's going to get paid for.  But you are correct, it is not that simple.  

It was almost like he knew somebody at FEC wanted to do it and he was in the unique position to help them realize their goal.     

[jrs2]

4 minutes ago, codypet said:

It was almost like he knew somebody at FEC wanted to do it and he was in the unique position to help them realize their goal.     

I think they either paid him off or they advised him to nix the plan because of their soon to be made public plan which would make him look like a genius.  I usually assume the worst. 

Spenser should be chiming in pretty soon about this I'm sure...

12 minutes ago, jliv said:

I love how the theme park unit of NBCUniversal, a subsidiary of Comcast, a $100 billion/year corporation, doesn't once mention how it plans to contribute to its wild idea of spending other people's money (i.e. the Brightline investors' money).  

is that from the pay wall article?  can you elaborate at all on what they said?  thx.

[Uncommon]

12 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

I think they either paid him off or they advised him to nix the plan because of their soon to be made public plan which would make him look like a genius.  I usually assume the worst. 

Spenser should be chiming in pretty soon about this I'm sure...

is that from the pay wall article?  can you elaborate at all on what they said?  thx.

Universal’s opposition to proposed service by Brightline Trains from Orlando’s airport to Walt Disney World and Tampa echoes the region’s history of missteps and failures in launching passenger rail.

Universal wants Brightline to construct what looks to be a vastly more costly route from the airport to the tourist strip that spans International Drive, Universal’s attractions and Orange County’s convention center, before continuing on to Disney and Tampa.

Brightline’s plan to make Orlando the Florida hub of upscale, higher-speed passenger rail is widely regarded with enthusiasm as a boost for the region. But Universal’s intervention could break Brightline’s budget, its officials say, and bring upheaval to other transportation, including the SunRail commuter system.

The matter is likely to be dealt with by many government agencies but is poised for pivotal action July 20 by the Central Florida Expressway Authority, where the passenger-rail company is seeking access to a segment of the road right-of-way.

But a Universal consultant has countered that Brightline has ineptly figured route choices and construction options and is overstating the additional expense of Universal’s proposed alternative.

Universal’s consultant, VHB, also disclosed this month that Universal’s route would cost between $294 million and $814 million more than Brightline’s version.

VHB was employed by Universal and then additionally by International Drive’s chamber of commerce. The chamber declined to disclose the consultant’s fee, which could indicate the depth of its work.

“We believe the cost differential can continue to shrink between the two alignments if further due diligence and analysis is conducted,” VHB stated.

Asked about continuing to shrink costs for the Universal route, Brightline officials said such cost-cutting may not fit their standards for quality and safety.

Universal is undeterred and its backers are suggesting without specifics that taxpayers or other private investors could cover the extra costs of its preferred route.

“Brightline’s current planned route is not the right one for our community,” said Tom Schroder, spokesperson for Universal Parks & Resorts, the parent of Universal Orlando.

A central figure in the controversy, Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings, doused hopes that funding for Universal’s route could come from county coffers.

“It’s fascinating to have the conversation about the other [Universal] route but someone is going to have to pay,” Demings said.

“The chatter that I hear — I was a law enforcement officer for a long time and have ears to the ground — is that somehow and at some point there will be an ask for Orange County to fill the gap,” Demings said at a meeting of expressway authority in June. “I’m simply going on the record, sensitizing everyone to the fact that that may not be the best assumption to make.”

In the late 1990s, many Central Florida leaders were rankled by what they saw as Universal failing to rally or even undermining support for regional light rail that would have connected from north of Orlando to International Drive. The proposed system was dropped after Orange County commissioners opted out with a 4-3 vote.

That episode is widely remembered for the more than $225 million in pledged federal support for Central Florida light rail that was redirected largely to Charlotte, which now runs light rail that carries nearly 30,000 riders daily.

Central Florida’s SunRail, launched in 2014 and still struggling to gain popularity, is a heavy-rail commuter train that is less accessible to riders than light-rail systems. SunRail hauls about 7,000 passengers daily among 16 stations along 49 miles in Volusia, Seminole, Orange and Osceola counties.

Two decades ago, Universal was a major financial backer of a campaign that derailed a proposed high-speed train from Orlando to Tampa, which would have included a stop at Disney but not at the International Drive tourism corridor.

The most recent blow for Central Florida rail proponents was a decade ago when then-Gov. Rick Scott rejected $2.4 billion in federal dollars for high-speed service between Orlando and Tampa.

Linda Chapin, Orange County’s mayor through the 1990s and a leading voice for mass transit, said Central Florida has had to weather crushing setbacks over rail.

“Universal has been one of the biggest factors in killing worthwhile efforts,” Chapin said. “Apparently, if they don’t get their way with Brightline, they are willing to kill it too.”

Orlando’s mayor is a staunch supporter of SunRail.

“I’m not making any deal that does not accommodate SunRail to the airport,” Dyer said. “What Brightline has on the table does facilitate SunRail to the airport.”

Also, a priority for Dyer is expanding SunRail schedule to run more often, later at night and on weekends, all costly moves that have no current funding allocation or plan except for a potential increase in sales tax.

But Universal, as part of its push for a Brightline route to the International Drive tourist strip, has introduced a sweeping vision for SunRail.

John Sprouls, executive vice president and chief administrative officer for Universal Parks & Resorts, urged company employees earlier this month to advocate for a Brightline route to International Drive.

“SunRail will be able to use Brightline’s track,” Sprouls said. “If we can convince our government agencies to consider a route that serves the I-Drive corridor, this will have huge benefits for those of you who want to use SunRail to commute to work.”

Universal also has amplified worries about Brightline’s preferred route, arising from trains that would follow S.R. 417 through 3.5 miles of the Hunter’s Creek community.

In his email to employees, Sprouls stated: “We specifically want to speak with those of you who live in the Hunter’s Creek area” and he then paraphrased the community’s concerns about “noise, safety concerns, impact to property values and dirt from high-speed trains.”

Leaders of the community of 25,000 residents just west of U.S. Highway 441 in south Orange County have implored the expressway authority to make Brightline account for the potential impacts of trains running along that section of S.R. 417.

That portion of S.R. 417 also ranks among the region’s busiest roads, carrying nearly 80,000 cars daily.

Brightline has said in presentations that its trains, with one passing in each direction every hour, will travel through Hunter’s Creek at 70 to 80 mph, or about the same as traffic. Elsewhere, trains will reach 125 mph in east Orange County and also peak at 125 mph along I-4 en route to Tampa.

Passing through Hunter’s Creek, according to Brightline’s initial tests, trains will be audible for seven seconds at 62 decibels, or at the volume of “background conversation” to someone 150 feet away. Without road crossings, no warning horns and bells will sound.

Brightline has begun talks with Hunter’s Creek over solutions, erecting sound walls, for example, and financial compensation.

Beyond costs and routes, Brightline has stressed that its intercity trains are poorly suited for commutes between Orlando’s airport and International Drive and that expecting its trains to fill that role would run the risk of failing to draw ridership.

Brightline trains involve airport-like security checks, have one-hour frequencies, remain at stations for luggage handling significantly longer than light-rail stops, and have tickets priced for upscale service.

Nicole Wilson, an Orange County commissioner whose district spans Hunter’s Creek, said she has been adamant that Brightline solves residents’ concerns.

“They are not opposed to high-speed rail in Hunter’s Creek,” Wilson said. “They are opposed to having decreased property values and decreased quality of life.”

An advocate for mass transit, Wilson said that International Drive should have passenger rail but that Brightline is not the answer.

“It’s ridiculous that it hasn’t happened,” Wilson said of rail service for the tourist strip. “But asking Brightline to make that stop is like asking Delta airlines to make that stop.”

Of the Central Florida Expressway Authority’s 10 board members, seven are locally elected commissioners and mayors, including Dyer and Demings, and three are governor appointees.

Two of the appointees have been vocal in calling for further consideration of Universal’s preferred route. They are Maier, director of NextEra Energy fiber development, and Jay Madara, chief financial officer for Golf Channel until May and now senior vice president at PGA Tour.

Golf Channel, based in Orlando, and Universal Orlando are under the ownership of NBCUniversal.

“Private entities could be tapped to fill that gap,” Maier said during an expressway authority meeting in June. Madara said in the same meeting that federal funding could be in the offing. “You could be our best lobbyist,” Madara said, addressing Dyer.

Maier and Madara declined requests for comment.

Another board member at that meeting, Osceola County Commissioner Brandon Arrington, noted Demings’ warning that Orange County isn’t likely to cover extra costs of Universal’s route. Further proceedings would waste time, said Arrington, who backs Brightline’s planned route.

“All I’m seeing is delays,” he said.

[Uncommon]

36 minutes ago, jliv said:

I love how the theme park unit of NBCUniversal, a subsidiary of Comcast, a $100 billion/year corporation, doesn't once mention how it plans to contribute to its wild plans for spending other people's money (i.e. the Brightline investors' money).  

After having read the article again, I’m even more furious lol

[jrs2]

10 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

After having read the article again, I’m even more furious lol

well, the article does kind of tick me off too.  Lots of entities related to Universal.  Yes, I remember how Universal was against Skyplex' height at those hearings/meetings.  As it turned out Skyplex didn't have the deep pockets needed anyway to build that complex...yet.

But the article does favor WDW and is skewed in their favor.  Cost of the study dictates how much in depth it was? C'mon... 

Regardless of the players involved, Universal is right about this.  The OCCC needs a rail stop from MCO.  I think that would guarantee more hotel rooms, and more shows, and more customers for Pointe Orlando and Icon Park, etc, and perhaps new development.  

What I'd like to know is what exactly is BL's plan to connect Sunrail to MCO? use of their easement track by Sunrail locomotives, or use of a BL train every time it goes west to east and east to west at Meadowwoods Station?   And this of course is the flip side to the argument- a bona fide connection to MCO will boost Sunrail numbers and help secure it's future.  Sunrail is an FDOT project.  OCCC is a County project.  Which one should take precedence if that's what we're left with?  Uni makes a good point that conceptually, Sunrail could use the track BL will be on to connect it to I-Drive,.  Is that true or would that create a logistical nightmare?  Or, would a Sunrail rider simply board BL and take it to I-Drive instead?

I dunno...

[Uncommon]

14 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

well, the article does kind of tick me off too.  Lots of entities related to Universal.  Yes, I remember how Universal was against Skyplex' height at those hearings/meetings.  As it turned out Skyplex didn't have the deep pockets needed anyway to build that complex...yet.

But the article does favor WDW and is skewed in their favor.  Cost of the study dictates how much in depth it was? C'mon... 

Regardless of the players involved, Universal is right about this.  The OCCC needs a rail stop from MCO.  I think that would guarantee more hotel rooms, and more shows, and more customers for Pointe Orlando and Icon Park, etc, and perhaps new development.  

What I'd like to know is what exactly is BL's plan to connect Sunrail to MCO? use of their easement track by Sunrail locomotives, or use of a BL train every time it goes west to east and east to west at Meadowwoods Station?   And this of course is the flip side to the argument- a bona fide connection to MCO will boost Sunrail numbers and help secure it's future.  Sunrail is an FDOT project.  OCCC is a County project.  Which one should take precedence if that's what we're left with?  Uni makes a good point that conceptually, Sunrail could use the track BL will be on to connect it to I-Drive,.  Is that true or would that create a logistical nightmare?  Or, would a Sunrail rider simply board BL and take it to I-Drive instead?

I dunno...

If I-Drive/Universal wants rail so much, they can pay for it. But why essentially strongarm Brightline out of building anything at all? It seems like that’s universal’s goal. If they aren’t benefited, then they’re going to do what they can to kill the project entirely (at least, that’s the article’s slant).

Rail to I-Drive should’ve happened a long time ago. It’s not up to a high speed rail company to fix Orlando’s transportation woes.

I very clearly see Universal’s side in all of this. But I despise the idea and the potential of them flexing their muscles and nixing the entire project to Tampa to the detriment of the city and region of Orlando.

[Uncommon]

This is starting to get ugly:

“Say No to Universal, Yes to Brightline Train” From the Sentinel: https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/editorials/os-op-brightline-orlando-universal-disney-route-20210716-3qm53insfvgbnditm7uexewa4e-story.html

Orlando has the chance of a lifetime: A privately funded fast-rail system that starts in Miami that will connect our airport with Disney World on its way down the Interstate 4 median to Tampa.

Imagine watching all of that standstill traffic on I-4 from your train window.

There’s lots to like about a rail system — again, a non-government, privately runrail system — that’ll connect three of the state’s major urban centers with airports and tourist destinations.

And yet, the region might once again squander an opportunity to do something about its exasperating traffic problems because of needless, self-interested squabbling.

Universal Orlando is trying to force Brightline to reroute the tracks closer to Universal’s theme parks. To get its way, Universal’s leaning on the Central Florida Expressway Authority, which controls the State Road 417 rights of way that Brightline wants to use for its preferred route to Disney.

The Expressway Authority is meeting Tuesday to decide whether it supportsusing its rights of way for the Brightline project, and the answer must be yes unless the region wants to risk leaving another transportation opportunity on the trash heap. 

Brightline already has trains zipping between Miami and West Palm Beach. It’s working on a connection to Orlando International Airport. From there, it wants to extend the line to Tampa via Walt Disney World.

The cost isn’t coming out of your pocketbook. It’s coming out of Brightline’s. It’s just seeking to operate on publicly owned rights of way, which won’t come free to the company. 

Brightline wants to use the S.R. 417 path to reach Disney’s property at Disney Springs. The route is logical and more cost effective than the alternatives being proposed by tourism interests along International Drive. 

We’re primarily talking about Universal, which wants the train closer to its resorts so it can profit off Brightline’s investment.

The irony here is rich.

Universal’s been sponging off the public for years now, mostly through a special taxing district that’s provided millions in tax money to build roads and related projects that Universal wanted, including $4.5 million in 2013 for a pedestrian bridge to connect a new hotel with its theme parks. 

Jul 15, 2021 at 3:22 PM 

You don’t have to reach back that far into time to recall last year’s decision by the Orange County Commission to give Universal $100 million in tax money to build a road it needs for a new theme park.

And now, this corporate addict of taxpayer money is trying to use its considerable influence to make a company that’s paying its own way serve Universal’s needs.

Universal and other I-Drive businesses want Brightline’s airport-to-Disney track to generally follow the State Road 528 corridor, and then down Interstate 4, instead of sticking primarily to the 417. 

But an expressway consultant estimates that would add another $600 million to $1.1 billion to the price, which would blow up the company’s financial plan. 

A Universal consultant thinks that additional cost could be lowered to somewhere between $294 million and $814 million. 

So who picks up that tab? Brightline? Maybe not.

The Sentinel’s Kevin Spear reported suggestions had emerged that taxpayers might be asked to shoulder part of the extra cost. (We could have seen that one coming a mile away.)

Fortunately, Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings quickly nixed the idea that county taxes are in play. 

Anyway, I-Drive would be better served with some type of light-rail or trolley system that can make frequent stops, not a heavy train system designed to reach speeds of 125 mph. Brightline’s train won’t do anything to stop local authorities from planning a separate, more fitting rail system to serve the region’s tourism hub.

This isn’t Universal’s first foray into rail mischief. 

In 1999, when a light rail for Central Florida was nearing reality, a swing vote on the County Commission ended up killing the idea. The commissioner who voted it down said at the time that a conversation with Universal officials influenced his nay vote.

A few years later Universal and I-Drive businesses were agitating against a Tampa-to-Orlando high-speed rail proposal they didn’t like.

Enough already. At some point Central Florida leaders need to start acting in the public’s best interests. And the public’s best interest is to take a privately-funded rail deal right in front of them over one that involves using tax money.

Brightline still has more work to do in planning its Central Florida route. It has to negotiate with the state Department of Transportation and with residents of the Hunter’s Creek development, which is right on the 417 route. 

But there is no reason why the Expressway Authority shouldn’t give Brightline the go-ahead for the route it’s chosen so long as it remains a self-funded project.

It really shouldn’t be so hard to say yes to a new transportation system when it’s someone else’s money paying for it.

[smileguy]

I know so many want this to be the local link to MCO, but with frequency and nature of the service, it's not really going to fill that need. The hourly service to Orlando stops wouldn't be meant for MCO traffic, although you could use it for that.  We should be thinking of it as a ride from South Florida or Tampa Bay to I-Drive or to Disney. 

[Poe Tempkin]

On 7/16/2021 at 5:28 PM, smileguy said:

I know so many want this to be the local link to MCO, but with frequency and nature of the service, it's not really going to fill that need. The hourly service to Orlando stops wouldn't be meant for MCO traffic, although you could use it for that.  We should be thinking of it as a ride from South Florida or Tampa Bay to I-Drive or to Disney. 

Correct. This is an express service, not a commuter service.

[jrs2]

any word on where the talks left off?