Brightline Trains

[jrs2]

15 hours ago, jgardnerucf said:

I have a feeling it's all being done behind scenes.  The razing of the hotel next to OCC where the station would be is almost done.  Plenty of soil sampling been being done along that interchange for flyover and piles.    And besides, the walls all put up along 417 now with expansion done, leave no room along the wall to road.       Just my opinion.     Hunter Creekians ain't on here anyway, they can enjoy their big walls now and feel like they're in West Germany or something.

so...are you saying you've got a hunch they are already prepping for the realignment that Uni wants?  I think you said as much but I was shocked to hear it and rather pleased I must say if true.

[jgardnerucf]

Dump dated days inn next to Rosen centre.    Gone.

[jrs2]

21 minutes ago, jgardnerucf said:

Dump dated days inn next to Rosen centre.    Gone.

say that five times quickly.  LOL.

I like what I'm hearing.  

[jliv]

20 hours ago, jgardnerucf said:

I have a feeling it's all being done behind scenes.  The razing of the hotel next to OCC where the station would be is almost done.  Plenty of soil sampling been being done along that interchange for flyover and piles.    And besides, the walls all put up along 417 now with expansion done, leave no room along the wall to road.       Just my opinion.     Hunter Creekians ain't on here anyway, they can enjoy their big walls now and feel like they're in West Germany or something.

Well, there is that inconvenient problem of acres of industrial private property along Taft-Vineland Road they will have to procure for a right-of-way, which will involve negotiations with dozens of separate owners all agreeing to sell, and a lot of money Brightline wasn't planning to spend.   I like the idea, but I doubt there's anything "behind-the-scenes" happening.

[Urban Mail Carrier]

I hope it turns out to be true. The next question to be answered is if Sunrail will be allowed to operate that route as a separate line. 

[jgardnerucf]

Brightline route.      Run a sunrail during PGA and big conventions.   It's almost a duh plan.  (Universal Epic, OCCC, big turn at I4 toward Downtown Disney, onward to Orlampa, next to ybor amtrak. Done deal. Simple.)

Tell me. Who does not see this?

Heck with the hunters creek route.

 

Edited January 30, 2022 by jgardnerucf
text

[aent]

On 1/27/2022 at 4:19 PM, jrs2 said:

well, here's something interesting to consider...

when Maglev was trying to get a route between MCO and I-Drive along 528 and/or SLR or a combination of both, wasn't the County donating the easement?  So, if Universal wants BL to realign so that they and the OCCC both benefit, then why all of the sudden is this an extra $1B to do that alignment?

Maglev was supposed to be super light weight trains/track on a line that was entirely elevated. Brightline is heavy and planned to build on the ground and only bridge over intersections.

[Poe Tempkin]

On 1/27/2022 at 2:42 PM, HankStrong said:

Having watched all these meetings, I will say that I never knew the NIMBYs in Hunter's Creek had it in them.  "Please place the train over THEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRE, with the poor people!" They sound like they live in College Park or something.

 

I have strong feelings that anyone who wishes to re-route this train should be putting up the money to make that happen.  The comment keeps being made that "it won't cost anything close to $1B to go the way WE want it to go!  It will be a fraction of that!" but the interesting thing is that I've never heard them say they will pay that fraction.

People have no clue how little impact these trains have.  I've seen them in operation in South FL.  They're quiet and pass quickly.  We're not talking miles long freight behemoths.

[JFW657]

Yesterday on Central Florida Spotlight, the guest was Brightline CEO Mike Reininger.

Pretty interesting episode.

The trains are now on the track for testing purposes and Cocoa is looking to get a stop.

https://www.wftv.com/news/central-florida-spotlight-brightline/0defbbb8-3db1-4e0c-b914-1df949b14ee6/ 

[jrs2]

On 1/29/2022 at 12:51 AM, jgardnerucf said:

Brightline route.      Run a sunrail during PGA and big conventions.   It's almost a duh plan.  (Universal Epic, OCCC, big turn at I4 toward Downtown Disney, onward to Orlampa, next to ybor amtrak. Done deal. Simple.)

Tell me. Who does not see this?

Heck with the hunters creek route.

 

I am Emiril and...BAM!!!

14 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Yesterday on Central Florida Spotlight, the guest was Brightline CEO Mike Reininger.

Pretty interesting episode.

The trains are now on the track for testing purposes and Cocoa is looking to get a stop.

https://www.wftv.com/news/central-florida-spotlight-brightline/0defbbb8-3db1-4e0c-b914-1df949b14ee6/ 

I totally agree.  I've seen the junction area from N/S to E/W and it's location.  The problem for PC is the same problem they had when they shot down that freight line proposal that would come in from the north-- the thing might as well be on an island and bridges are expensive.  I am assuming the BL stop would be on the mainland and they would do that "final mile" bussing or whatever to PC.  But it would be sexier to have an actual spur and station at the port itself.  But they make money already with people driving to the port so if the Port Authority was considering spending money on that vs a new terminal, it probably wouldn't make sense.

[AmIReal]

What it takes to get a train station in your South Florida city- https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-brightline-train-station-development-20220129-xku6n3dtsvhqboywns6ncesa2q-story.html

This starts off as a history lesson on Boca trying to get in the race for a station, but there were some good portions about the region's larger plans, particularly the Coastal Link. I know you train watcher know this, but I wasn't aware Deerfield, Pompano Beach, Oakland Park, Fort Lauderdale, the Fort Lauderdale Hollywood International Airport and Hollywood have been named as preliminary station locations for the proposed Coastal Link commuter system now under study by the Florida Department of Transportation. "The line is slated to become a reality in 2027." Also, "State and county planners envision slower commuter trains that would operate separately, but also along the same Florida East Coast corridor used by Brightline."

[JFW657]

5 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I am Emiril and...BAM!!!

I totally agree.  I've seen the junction area from N/S to E/W and it's location.  The problem for PC is the same problem they had when they shot down that freight line proposal that would come in from the north-- the thing might as well be on an island and bridges are expensive.  I am assuming the BL stop would be on the mainland and they would do that "final mile" bussing or whatever to PC.  But it would be sexier to have an actual spur and station at the port itself.  But they make money already with people driving to the port so if the Port Authority was considering spending money on that vs a new terminal, it probably wouldn't make sense.

I doubt they're talking about the port or anything across the intracoastal waterway.

By "Cocoa" I'm sure they mean Cocoa proper. 

I'm sure some kind of transportation arrangement would be made to accommodate the port and all the passenger$ it would attract. 

[codypet]

On 1/28/2022 at 12:06 PM, jgardnerucf said:

Dump dated days inn next to Rosen centre.    Gone.

Holy crap.  I can't find WMD permits for that one.  Never expected that to go.

On 1/28/2022 at 4:46 PM, jliv said:

Well, there is that inconvenient problem of acres of industrial private property along Taft-Vineland Road they will have to procure for a right-of-way, which will involve negotiations with dozens of separate owners all agreeing to sell, and a lot of money Brightline wasn't planning to spend.   I like the idea, but I doubt there's anything "behind-the-scenes" happening.

TVR is gone for an alignment.  HSR had to be on viaduct much of the way, something BL isn't going to be willing to do.   Too many roadway crossings there.  It wouldn't be able to hit the speeds it wanted to with all those crossings at grade.

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, AmIReal said:

Also, "State and county planners envision slower commuter trains that would operate separately, but also along the same Florida East Coast corridor used by Brightline."

...maybe they apply this standard to Orlando and Sunrail...

[jgardnerucf]

4 hours ago, codypet said:

Holy crap.  I can't find WMD permits for that one.  Never expected that to go.

Welp, not the Days Inn, but the Whatever 2-story oldie old deal behind it.  That's what I I mean't.

[codypet]

1 hour ago, jgardnerucf said:

Welp, not the Days Inn, but the Whatever 2-story oldie old deal behind it.  That's what I I mean't.

Oh interesting.  The old Red Roof Inn and the Clarion next to it operated as an independent flag together and now they're both gone.   I thought it sounded like something Rosen would do and a quick look at OCPA reveals.

Ding Ding Ding.  Rosen.   Soooo they're either planning a new hotel or its parking for the old one.   I'll have to do some more sleuthing.

[HankStrong]

On 1/27/2022 at 4:19 PM, jrs2 said:

well, here's something interesting to consider...

when Maglev was trying to get a route between MCO and I-Drive along 528 and/or SLR or a combination of both, wasn't the County donating the easement?  So, if Universal wants BL to realign so that they and the OCCC both benefit, then why all of the sudden is this an extra $1B to do that alignment?

It is important to note that the BL route that the I-Drive folks want is not the same route as the proposed Maglev train.  There are similarities, but it isn't the same route.  That route was mostly down Sand Lake Blvd.

[CFL Rez]

It makes no sense to divert BL to I Drive (OCCC/Universal) area. Except for a community to hijack the project to benefit them without any financial skin in the game!

BL is inter-city rail and will operate at the most once or twice per hour in high demand times and once every 2 hours at other times. This is not the type of rail that is needed to service the I Drive corridor from the airport.

Sunrail (with an increase in service that airport service would demand) would be best for this. This is why BL is negotiating with Sunrail to run service on the airport to Disney line, because that is the proper type (or light rail) to service that area.

Even better would be a light rail line for I Drive that connected to BL at 417 and I Drive/World Center Dr. That line could service ALL of I Drive (Vineland Outlets/Sea World/OCCC/ICON Park/Univeral/International Outlets/Mall of Millenia) and connect beyond. 

[HankStrong]

9 hours ago, CFL Rez said:

This is why BL is negotiating with Sunrail to run service on the airport to Disney line, because that is the proper type (or light rail) to service that area.

I had no idea that was being considered.  That's cool.

You are saying under this proposal: BL runs MCO to Tampa nonstop skipping DS altogther, but a seperate SR train on the BL track would just do the MCO to DS route back and forth all day (avoiding the times of the BL runs) so they'd run much more often?

[jgardnerucf]

33 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

You are saying under this proposal: BL runs MCO to Tampa nonstop skipping DS altogther, but a seperate SR train on the BL track would just do the MCO to DS route back and forth all day (avoiding the times of the BL runs) so they'd run much more often?

That paragraph much clearer to understand and that is what has been trying to say in here.  Consolidate the systems on the new line. BL gets their route. SR gets some runs in.

[aent]

1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

I had no idea that was being considered.  That's cool.

You are saying under this proposal: BL runs MCO to Tampa nonstop skipping DS altogther, but a seperate SR train on the BL track would just do the MCO to DS route back and forth all day (avoiding the times of the BL runs) so they'd run much more often?

My understanding is thats not correct in several ways:

1) Brightline plans to run 1 train per hour in off-peak, and every 30 min peak, as they're already running in South Florida. Sunrail runs 1 hr 20 min during off peak and every 30 min peak. Sunrail has a longer peak time during the day with 30 min service, but the off-peak times it runs less often then Brightline. For airport service to Disney, I imagine that longer off peak is more important.

2) Brightline has made it clear Disney service is critical to their service, which makes sense.

3) Brightline has offered to let Sunrail use their tracks, but I'm not sure if Sunrail would have a Disney stop along with Brightline, there's been no negotiation in that regard. If they share tracks, multiple other stops could be built for Sunrail, as Brightline has indicated they only want 2 stops in the Orlando area, Disney and MCO.

As FDOT drops its operation for Sunrail in a few years after the phase 2 expansion is built, Brightline and Lynx are being considered to take over operation of Sunrail:

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/02/02/lynx-cfx-brightline-may-operate-sunrail-orlando.html

It probably makes sense to hand it over to Brightline

[jliv]

3 hours ago, aent said:

My understanding is thats not correct in several ways:

1) Brightline plans to run 1 train per hour in off-peak, and every 30 min peak, as they're already running in South Florida. Sunrail runs 1 hr 20 min during off peak and every 30 min peak. Sunrail has a longer peak time during the day with 30 min service, but the off-peak times it runs less often then Brightline. For airport service to Disney, I imagine that longer off peak is more important.

2) Brightline has made it clear Disney service is critical to their service, which makes sense.

3) Brightline has offered to let Sunrail use their tracks, but I'm not sure if Sunrail would have a Disney stop along with Brightline, there's been no negotiation in that regard. If they share tracks, multiple other stops could be built for Sunrail, as Brightline has indicated they only want 2 stops in the Orlando area, Disney and MCO.

As FDOT drops its operation for Sunrail in a few years after the phase 2 expansion is built, Brightline and Lynx are being considered to take over operation of Sunrail:

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/02/02/lynx-cfx-brightline-may-operate-sunrail-orlando.html

It probably makes sense to hand it over to Brightline

A few points to make:

1. One thing missing from all of this:  Orange County has had plans for widening Taft-Vineland between OBT and Orange from 2 lanes to 4 lanes in the design phases for years.  If this project was to move out of design phase as a priority project, many of those right-of-way concerns could be addressed through the power of eminent domain, if a rail envelope was included in this project.  It's how CFX was able to procure land to expand its envelope for Brightline along 528 during the 2010's, through a mere threat of exercising that power.  The Obama plan from 2010, inherited from work done as part of the state constitution amendment voted for in 2000, would've also benefited from having a government agency owning the project because of this power.   I wouldn't be surprised if this becomes a component of any future proposals, if the Hunters Creek legal hurdles are found to be insurmountable.

2. I wouldn't call any system connecting the airport to tourist attactions "commuter rail" similar to the current Sunrail service.  There would be a mixture of workers commuting to their jobs in the area, and leisure travellers heading to the parks and hotels.  An I-Drive stop would also include business travellers attending trade conventions at OCCC.  Such a line would need higher frequency and higher train capacity than a typical "commuter rail" system.   I certainly wouldn't expect to see the bi-level cars pulled by a locomotive along that route.  I would expect trains running every 20 minutes until midnight, 7 days a week, if the constant traffic jam along I-4 from US 27 to the Conroy Road interchange through that area is any indication of potential demand.

3. I'm just surprised Brightline hasn't considered the opportunity of an I-Drive station being the catalyst for real estate development similar in scale to their MiamiCentral station, given the Convention Center and future Epic Universe nearby.  They wouldn't have the same opportunity on Disney property, but perhaps there is a stunning rendering of a Disney Springs station yet to be revealed.  They may still be holding their cards close.

 

Edited February 4, 2022 by jliv

[codypet]

3.) Harris Rosen owns much of that land and his company knows what's up so getting land in that area on the cheap is probably impossible.  Especially with the land value baked in already from the convention center itself.

[dcluley98]

Stupid Mainstream Media Headline and Propaganda, but nonetheless: 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by dcluley98

[dcluley98]

Here is a better non-propaganda non-Faux news video, (LOL Orlando TV news is the WORST):