Brightline Trains

[aent]

1 hour ago, cubanbread said:

Once you start digging a bit further into the news that Disney backed out you start to realize that all they did was weasel themselves out of building the station while simultaneously continuing to benefit from a nearby stop. 

Maybe this opens the door to a casino stop in Tampa now since Brightline doesn't have to cater to what Disney wants. 

Disney was never building the station, even when it was on their property, it was just going to be leased to Brigthline to build and operate it.

[jrs2]

11 minutes ago, aent said:

Disney was never building the station, even when it was on their property, it was just going to be leased to Brigthline to build and operate it.

well if that's the case, then there is no reconsidering it's stance on the part of Disney.  wow.  I thought they were just trying to get out of paying for it at worst.  but this means they won't even allow a station's construction on their property.  what a bunch of _____.  At the end of the day, I get it b/c they've spent a ton of $$$ on new restaurants, hotels, rides, etc., and they want to protect their investment. 

If I was Comcast, I would develop a 3.5 mile or so train link between Universal Proper and the new planned station and really integrate the transit for their parks (and off site hotels).  Maybe they're planning to do this anyway.  I saw the impact the Harry Potter train had on pushing multi-day and multi-park passes; a train connecting Universal Proper to Epic and the BL/Sunrail stop would be monumental.  They could use the Kirkman Road (old and new) easement.  They probably don't need to b/c the busses can do the same thing.  But it would market them even more to tourists vs Disney...

[cubanbread]

1 hour ago, aent said:

Disney was never building the station, even when it was on their property, it was just going to be leased to Brigthline to build and operate it.

If that's true, then I think that explains even further why Brightline doesn't seemed phased. They had a back up plan and now they don't have to adhere to any Disney specs. 
 

[codypet]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

If I was Comcast, I would develop a 3.5 mile or so train link between Universal Proper and the new planned station and really integrate the transit for their parks (and off site hotels).  Maybe they're planning to do this anyway.  I saw the impact the Harry Potter train had on pushing multi-day and multi-park passes; a train connecting Universal Proper to Epic and the BL/Sunrail stop would be monumental.  They could use the Kirkman Road (old and new) easement.  They probably don't need to b/c the busses can do the same thing.  But it would market them even more to tourists vs Disney...

Is there already a BRT lane planned between Universal's main campus and Epic Universe?  Seems to me extending the BRT route to the intermodal station would make the most fiscal sense.

[jrs2]

20 minutes ago, codypet said:

Is there already a BRT lane planned between Universal's main campus and Epic Universe?  Seems to me extending the BRT route to the intermodal station would make the most fiscal sense.

I know I-Drive has it; I don't know if Kirkman has it or what the plan is.

1 hour ago, cubanbread said:

If that's true, then I think that explains even further why Brightline doesn't seemed phased. They had a back up plan and now they don't have to adhere to any Disney specs. 
 

I am stunned that in the press, Disney's statement makes you think they were going to build a station themselves for BL.  If people knew the truth, that they are just now allowing it, when BL was going to lease and build it, they would get a lot of bad press. Amazing...

[prahaboheme]

This route seems to confirm the S International Drive alignment.

[prahaboheme]

Mickey Views has a great overview of the current situation with the Sunshine Corridor expansion where BL and SR will share the tracks. I did not realize that Sunrail would extend all the way to the S. International Drive location. With this news, I am much more pulling for this location over Disney Springs as this brings a true park n’ ride Sunrail stop all the way to Disney / w192 / Celebration.  
 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lpyela9jzM

 

[dcluley98]

4 hours ago, codypet said:

Is there already a BRT lane planned between Universal's main campus and Epic Universe?  Seems to me extending the BRT route to the intermodal station would make the most fiscal sense.

Yes. That was part of the Kirkman Road extension past Sand Lake to Epic Universe. They are putting in dedicated lanes for BRT service between parks. 

[jrs2]

3 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

Mickey Views has a great overview of the current situation with the Sunshine Corridor expansion where BL and SR will share the tracks. I did not realize that Sunrail would extend all the way to the S. International Drive location. With this news, I am much more pulling for this location over Disney Springs as this brings a true park n’ ride Sunrail stop all the way to Disney / w192 / Celebration.  
 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lpyela9jzM

 

This guy is really thorough. So that proposed location means they would enter Disney from 536.  However,  I never understood the original alignment and what appeared to be a very sharp turn south after BL entered Disney property from a perpendicular angle.  He thinks Universal was behind the Reedy Creek fiasco.  Wow, I didn't think of that.  Also, he is depicting the Sunshine corridor as a separate phase than the remainder of the leg to Tampa,  which is what I was also wondering.  Also, that universal has big plans beyond Epic U.  I've got theories on that.  Maybe another entertainment complex;it was relayed at those Skyplex hearings as to why they were against the project.  So much just from that video. Great find.

[jgardnerucf]

13 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

This route seems to confirm the S International Drive alignment.

Wrong.     It's this route.

Already moving dirt.  Duh.

[spenser1058]

Y’all sure you’re not reading chicken entrails?

[prahaboheme]

1 hour ago, jgardnerucf said:

Wrong.     It's this route.

Already moving dirt.  Duh.

You need a better camera phone!

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Y’all sure you’re not reading chicken entrails?

you may lay it on thick sometimes, Spense, but I am LMAO right now! I didn't know that was a...thing...in the Bayou maybe?

2 hours ago, jgardnerucf said:

Wrong.     It's this route.

Already moving dirt.  Duh.

I am confused...again...

This is the original route down 417.  I thought they abandoned it for now for the Sunshine Corridor.  No?

[spenser1058]

I think Gypsies but the Voodoo folks might do it, too!

As for me, I’d rather just scarf down a mess of fried cheeken livers (MFC, I miss you so)!

[codypet]

3 hours ago, jgardnerucf said:

Wrong.     It's this route.

Already moving dirt.  Duh.

I know that room.  Do we cross paths often?

[HankStrong]

2 hours ago, codypet said:

I know that room.  Do we cross paths often?

[shardoon]

On 7/7/2022 at 3:04 PM, jrs2 said:

well if that's the case, then there is no reconsidering it's stance on the part of Disney.  wow.  I thought they were just trying to get out of paying for it at worst.  but this means they won't even allow a station's construction on their property.  what a bunch of _____.  At the end of the day, I get it b/c they've spent a ton of $$$ on new restaurants, hotels, rides, etc., and they want to protect their investment. 

If I was Comcast, I would develop a 3.5 mile or so train link between Universal Proper and the new planned station and really integrate the transit for their parks (and off site hotels).  Maybe they're planning to do this anyway.  I saw the impact the Harry Potter train had on pushing multi-day and multi-park passes; a train connecting Universal Proper to Epic and the BL/Sunrail stop would be monumental.  They could use the Kirkman Road (old and new) easement.  They probably don't need to b/c the busses can do the same thing.  But it would market them even more to tourists vs Disney...

Although it would be amazing for the tram to go from the station with stops at epic, Surfside hotels, and the main universal property.......that type of investment may rival building another theme park. 

[aent]

On 7/7/2022 at 3:34 PM, cubanbread said:

If that's true, then I think that explains even further why Brightline doesn't seemed phased. They had a back up plan and now they don't have to adhere to any Disney specs. 
 

I'm not sure Brightline isn't phased by this... Brightline was fighting hard to follow the 417 route and to bypass I-Drive to do exactly what Disney wanted. Just Universal was fighting hard, likely with full knowledge it would cause Disney to back out, to force that route to be changed to this "Sunshine corridor". Brightline never wanted it, Brightline' s been public that this corridor is not only more expensive, but would result in massive delays on expanding their service. Their plans for the 417 route had them putting shovels in the ground already, and having service to Disney World by next Thanksgiving, and likely getting to Tampa by 2030. As it is now, we're likely looking at 2030 to get near Disney. Funding was within budget for Brightline to get to Disney before, but as of now, there is a $800 million budget shortfall to get to Disney on this new route that makes it infeasible unless the government steps in (and my guess is that is under budget for the problems that are likely to come up). Brightline now needs the cooperation of probably 10-15 additional entities to make this happen, including a portion of the corridor likely having to be built by the state instead of Brightline, and thus having to conform to the state's contractor requirements instead of private industry, resulting in many more expenses and a much slower construction time. The only reason Brightline gave up on the 417 corridor is they knew they had a problem with the Democrats in power locally demanding their route or no train, and they weren't going to be able to overcome that. They were saying their route, or no train. We still might get that no train option, I believe there are huge problems with this Sunshine corridor still that need to be overcome.

On 7/7/2022 at 9:00 PM, prahaboheme said:

Mickey Views has a great overview of the current situation with the Sunshine Corridor expansion where BL and SR will share the tracks. I did not realize that Sunrail would extend all the way to the S. International Drive location. With this news, I am much more pulling for this location over Disney Springs as this brings a true park n’ ride Sunrail stop all the way to Disney / w192 / Celebration.  
 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Lpyela9jzM

My sources say they are expecting a much lower ridership at an off Disney property station compared to on property. That video is overall very good, however, the I-4 corridor south of 417 has retained the ROW for rail in the median to Tampa in all "Beyond the Ultimate" designs.

On 7/8/2022 at 12:24 AM, jrs2 said:

This guy is really thorough. So that proposed location means they would enter Disney from 536.  However,  I never understood the original alignment and what appeared to be a very sharp turn south after BL entered Disney property from a perpendicular angle.  He thinks Universal was behind the Reedy Creek fiasco.  Wow, I didn't think of that.  Also, he is depicting the Sunshine corridor as a separate phase than the remainder of the leg to Tampa,  which is what I was also wondering.  Also, that universal has big plans beyond Epic U.  I've got theories on that.  Maybe another entertainment complex;it was relayed at those Skyplex hearings as to why they were against the project.  So much just from that video. Great find.

Brightline has a while ago stated they were splitting it into separate phases, the MCO to Disney was planned to be an earlier phase. Brightline early on figured out its much easier to build, get financing, and deal with opposition by splitting everything into much smaller phases. If they had MCO to Tampa as a phase, they'd have to deal with the Orlando opposition they're dealing with now on top of the opposition they're going to get along those not getting served on the way to Tampa, and likely some opposition in Tampa. They need to get to Disney World, basically past Orlando, to make sure they aren't battling both sides at once. Once Brightline hits Disney, nobody in Orlando is going to oppose extending it to Tampa.

Universal's new property has been laid out to add another water park, 2 theme parks (one being Epic Universe) and numerous hotels. They have plans to get to the same number of parks and water parks as Disney World with the new land in the long term, that's the only way they can be on an equal level with them as "the destination" and not just an add on to Disney.

5 hours ago, shardoon said:

Although it would be amazing for the tram to go from the station with stops at epic, Surfside hotels, and the main universal property.......that type of investment may rival building another theme park. 

Although I've disappointedly heard nothing, it doesn't have to cost a fortune, they could use systems like Disney's Skyliner to do it on the cheap. They are building bus lanes on their new roads though, so I'm guessing we'll get nothing innovative on the transport front. Maybe driverless buses since they'll have their own lanes?

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, aent said:

I'm not sure Brightline isn't phased by this... Brightline was fighting hard to follow the 417 route and to bypass I-Drive to do exactly what Disney wanted. Just Universal was fighting hard, likely with full knowledge it would cause Disney to back out, to force that route to be changed to this "Sunshine corridor". Brightline never wanted it, Brightline' s been public that this corridor is not only more expensive, but would result in massive delays on expanding their service. Their plans for the 417 route had them putting shovels in the ground already, and having service to Disney World by next Thanksgiving, and likely getting to Tampa by 2030. As it is now, we're likely looking at 2030 to get near Disney. Funding was within budget for Brightline to get to Disney before, but as of now, there is a $800 million budget shortfall to get to Disney on this new route that makes it infeasible unless the government steps in (and my guess is that is under budget for the problems that are likely to come up). Brightline now needs the cooperation of probably 10-15 additional entities to make this happen, including a portion of the corridor likely having to be built by the state instead of Brightline, and thus having to conform to the state's contractor requirements instead of private industry, resulting in many more expenses and a much slower construction time. The only reason Brightline gave up on the 417 corridor is they knew they had a problem with the Democrats in power locally demanding their route or no train, and they weren't going to be able to overcome that. They were saying their route, or no train. We still might get that no train option, I believe there are huge problems with this Sunshine corridor still that need to be overcome.

A few points.  

If nothing else ever materializes with BL, people from Miami are taking BL to Orlando to go to Disney in early 2023.  Are they now  not coming because the train lets them off at OIA?  Isn’t the Orlando route the whole point?  Why did they build the Intermodal Center at OIA?  Wouldn’t BL have been better off taking the Fla TNPK corridor straight to Disney if that was the main intention?  They received easement along 528; they didn’t have to go to OIA.  Why would a Miami tourist have to take a train to OIA?  Or, did they choose OIA b/c it’s as good a place for a station as any?

The whole point to BL coming to Orlando is to connect the two largest tourist destinations in the state, with one of them being the largest in the US and maybe the world.  Yeah, I get their master plan to connect all the major cities in Florida.  Unless they planned from the onset to have a station at Disney before they even designed their Miami station.  

It’s not a “Democrats” issue, IMO.  If the Democrats didn’t do what they are doing now with the Sunshine Corridor proposal, I would label them as crappy politicians and civic leaders.  In fact, when the SC proposal was made public, I applauded them for thinking out of the box and trying to also improve the Sunrail system at the same time.  I don’t care if its high or higher speed rail, but you need a train to the OCCC from OIA, period.  And, simultaneously, you “should” also service Universal with the investment Comcast has made in that corridor.  

And regarding the extra stops, since when does Aventura Mall warrant a HSR stop?  Or Boca Town Center? Use that same HSR-slowing logic here.  Except here, the Democrats have a good chance of getting that money for the Sunrail EW corridor and to OIA and BL won’t have to do it- only lease it.  Oh they may spend money on the stations, but so will Universal.  Disney was never gonna spend $1 on a station.

So, Miami tourists will take the BL to OIA to go to Disney in early 2023.  What’s closer, that station or one at Xentury City adjacent to 536 and that first exit to Buena Vista Drive?

[jrs2]

Yay.  Trainsets 2 and 3 just arrived at the Orlando Maintenance Facility.

 

[HankStrong]

YES!

[spenser1058]

57 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

YES!

@HankStrongLOVES trains!

[AmIReal]

I can't remember, has it already been mentioned that "Brightline intercity high-speed passenger rail delays Orlando construction completion"

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/07/21/brightline-orlando-construction-florida-rail-delay.html

"Miami-based Brightline in a June construction report tied to its bond disclosures said the completion of the route from West Palm Beach to Orlando International Airport now is set for early 2023 rather than by the end of 2022."

[shardoon]

It makes sense. A lot of the work still need to be completed East of 520 on 528. Rail has not even been laid there yet. 

[HankStrong]

9 hours ago, shardoon said:

It makes sense. A lot of the work still need to be completed East of 520 on 528. Rail has not even been laid there yet. 

Two weeks ago the rails started being delivered to the stretch between I-95 & 520.  It's being laid right now.  There was video of it being laid on the big curve near I-95 then and the guy shooting the video's estimate was that most of the actual rail to get to 520 was dropped off in that shipment.