Brightline Trains

[jrs2]

11 hours ago, HankStrong said:

Two weeks ago the rails started being delivered to the stretch between I-95 & 520.  It's being laid right now.  There was video of it being laid on the big curve near I-95 then and the guy shooting the video's estimate was that most of the actual rail to get to 520 was dropped off in that shipment.

yeah, they got those rails and the crushed rock they lay it on top of; it's got a name... they haul that rock up on those freight train cars (like coal), and then dump it.  they still need a lot of that on that stretch...

22 hours ago, AmIReal said:

I can't remember, has it already been mentioned that "Brightline intercity high-speed passenger rail delays Orlando construction completion"

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/07/21/brightline-orlando-construction-florida-rail-delay.html

"Miami-based Brightline in a June construction report tied to its bond disclosures said the completion of the route from West Palm Beach to Orlando International Airport now is set for early 2023 rather than by the end of 2022."

yeah, those videos usually say early 2023 as the start date of service...

[spenser1058]

Everybody sing!

https://youtu.be/sHR6ALVzjeo

[jrs2]

12 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Everybody sing!

https://youtu.be/sHR6ALVzjeo

it didn't imbed your video from Youtube.  it's supposed to automatically when you paste the link.  huh...

[HankStrong]

12 hours ago, jrs2 said:

yeah, they got those rails and the crushed rock they lay it on top of; it's got a name... they haul that rock up on those freight train cars (like coal), and then dump it.  they still need a lot of that on that stretch...

yeah, those videos usually say early 2023 as the start date of service...

Ballast?

[shardoon]

Update for today. Rail completed to about 1 miles east of 520. Occasional truck here and there this morning delivering those concrete slabs that the rails would sit on, two trucks noted on shoulder east of St John's Bridge. Rails delivered east of St John's Bridge laid out on ground, not installed on slabs just east of St John's. However, slabs sinstalled near 95. It seems they are working on sections and will connect eventually, u guess more efficient that way.

Also, the original plan was test runs and training by Christmas and passengers by spring. 

Edited July 29, 2022 by shardoon

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

Ballast?

Yes!  that's it...

31 minutes ago, shardoon said:

Update for today. Rail completed to about 1 miles east of 520. Occasional truck here and there this morning delivering those concrete slabs that the rails would sit on, two trucks noted on shoulder east of St John's Bridge. Rails delivered east of St John's Bridge laid out on ground, not installed on slabs just east of St John's. However, slabs sinstalled near 95. It seems they are working on sections and will connect eventually, u guess more efficient that way.

Also, the original plan was test runs and training by Christmas and passengers by spring. 

I've noticed in the past two years of images and videos they replaced the classic wood "slats"? with concrete or reinforced concrete...rail ties?  they look sturdier and probably are...

[jrs2]

what's interesting about Brightline, is that now, with the Maintenance Facility at OIA, and the number of trains that will be housed there at least for this Orlando to Miami portion,  and the Intermodal facility just up the track from there, this train system is just as much Orlando's as it is Miami's.  FEC may be HQ'd there, but there is important infrastructure here as well.  And when they do the Sunshine Corridor and two more stations open up at OCCC and Xentury City, even more so.

[spenser1058]

Just a wee clarification: Florida East Coast Industries, which includes Brightline, is headquartered in Coral Gables.

The Florida East Coast Railway is headquartered in Jacksonville and is now owned by Grupo Mexico.

Edited July 29, 2022 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

12 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Just a wee clarification: Florida East Coast Industries, which includes Brightline, is headquartered in Coral Gables.

The Florida East Coast Railway is headquartered in Jacksonville and is now owned by Grupo Mexico.

Grupo?  Is that a branch of the Spain-based company that was looking to partner with Maglev?

I get the HQ thing.  But it's like having a corporation based in Delaware yet they occupy  300k sq ft in an office building in NYC.  Not so much here since FEC probably owns thousands of acres of industrial land adjacent to their line.  The Jax-Miami thing is a natural geography thing because the line connected the two cities.  But now the line will also connect to Orlando.  And...And...they still earmarked land to the east of 417 on Ranch property for a freight intermodal center.  Regardless of what's been written in the past about whether freight trains can travel on that track or not, they still planned for it and I saw those plans a few years back...And...if you look on Google Map, they also just built a SB rail connection to the CSX line (at ICP Blvd) that eventually leads from the coal plant to Taft through Lake Nona.  And that's right around the location earmarked for that future terminal.  There is going to be more of a presence in Orlando than originally anticipated...   

[spenser1058]

Not sure of Grupo Mexico’s provenance, but, as I understand it, they own the tracks and the freight line and Industries (controlled by PEF Fortress) gets all the glamorous stuff.

When Fortress spun off the railroad, I’m sure they contracted to do what they want as far as running Brightline. I’m also just guessing Brightline kept the part between the mainline and MCO. Our train experts may know more about the spinoff.

[spenser1058]

Fun Fact: when FEC moved to Jax, there was concern about what would happen to the railroad’s historic three-story headquarters building in St. Augustine along the tracks.

The good news is, Flagler College got them. Based on how they’ve handled the Henry Flagler hotel they started the college in, it’s the best possible result. The college has been an excellent steward of the past.

[spenser1058]

Grupo Mexico seems to be independent. It only goes back to 1978:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grupo_M%C3%A9xico

[codypet]

6 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Not sure of Grupo Mexico’s provenance, but, as I understand it, they own the tracks and the freight line and Industries (controlled by PEF Fortress) gets all the glamorous stuff.

When Fortress spun off the railroad, I’m sure they contracted to do what they want as far as running Brightline. I’m also just guessing Brightline kept the part between the mainline and MCO. Our train experts may know more about the spinoff.

Nope its operated by BL (via a lease) but that's owned by the State.

Edited July 29, 2022 by codypet

[jrs2]

I would've just gone in there like Jim Hopper before me, but, my cohones ain't THAT big

[jrs2]

 

[jrs2]

So if you watch the video, the drone hovers over the several interchanges along The 528.  Of note, the BL bridges are single track yet the width can handle a second track, although the embankment currently does not.

[codypet]

Cost savings

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

Cost savings

how will they time it though?  Like how often will a train debark for Miami and embark to OIA?  it's almost like a single train would have to clear Cocoa to OIA stretch, and, OIA to Cocoa stretch, before another one can enter that track, right?  So it's that time travel increment times 2, right?  Two trips between those two points? Or, will there be a double track somewhere in between that can hold one train while the other one passes?

[HankStrong]

There are doubletracks along the trip from Miami.  What I don't know is if there are doubletrack spots between I-95 and the airport, but i don't actually remember seeing any.

The estimated time between the airport & I-95 is less than 15 minutes.  There is a doubletrack spot just South of the I-95 junction for sure because I've seen many videos showing 2 trains there.  There are doubletracks on the airport property, as well.

 

The best part is that all the bridges and crunch points can be doubletracked with minimal effort.  At least minimal effort in the train world.  They built this correctly for expansion.

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

how will they time it though?  Like how often will a train debark for Miami and embark to OIA?  it's almost like a single train would have to clear Cocoa to OIA stretch, and, OIA to Cocoa stretch, before another one can enter that track, right?  So it's that time travel increment times 2, right?  Two trips between those two points? Or, will there be a double track somewhere in between that can hold one train while the other one passes?

Not 2x the increment.  Only one because both ends have doubletrack for sure.  However, there may be a pass point in the middle that I just don't remember seeing.

[HankStrong]

Thanks to the 1st video below, I was able to confirm that some sections of the piece between I-95 and the airport are doubletracked.

What I can confirm:

• From the intermodal station to 528 is fully doubletracked (about 2.5 miles)
• Estimate that it is still doubletracked for a little bit heading East out of the airport along 528 (about 0.5 mile)
• From just East of Narcoossee Road to about 1 mile East of the 528 Mainline toll plaza is definitely doubletracked (about 4 miles)

From the 2nd video, there are many places without track, but the bed gets much wider.

What I think:

• There appears to be a section from about Lake Charlie Road to just East of the St. John's river that appears like it could be doubletracked (about 1.5 miles)

 

 

 

 

 

[codypet]

18 hours ago, HankStrong said:

There are doubletracks along the trip from Miami.  What I don't know is if there are doubletrack spots between I-95 and the airport, but i don't actually remember seeing any.

The estimated time between the airport & I-95 is less than 15 minutes.  There is a doubletrack spot just South of the I-95 junction for sure because I've seen many videos showing 2 trains there.  There are doubletracks on the airport property, as well.

 

The best part is that all the bridges and crunch points can be doubletracked with minimal effort.  At least minimal effort in the train world.  They built this correctly for expansion.

Not 2x the increment.  Only one because both ends have doubletrack for sure.  However, there may be a pass point in the middle that I just don't remember seeing.

IIRC they had a timing schedule.  Coordination with freight on the N-S part even with 2 tracks is probably trickier than the 30 some miles of single track heading to the airport.

[HankStrong]

38 minutes ago, codypet said:

IIRC they had a timing schedule.  Coordination with freight on the N-S part even with 2 tracks is probably trickier than the 30 some miles of single track heading to the airport.

But it's not just single.  See my comment below that one.

[codypet]

49 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

But it's not just single.  See my comment below that one.

I know, the sidings are strategically placed based on the modeling.   Also the spur from OUC doesn't count. 

[aent]

22 hours ago, jrs2 said:

how will they time it though?  Like how often will a train debark for Miami and embark to OIA?  it's almost like a single train would have to clear Cocoa to OIA stretch, and, OIA to Cocoa stretch, before another one can enter that track, right?  So it's that time travel increment times 2, right?  Two trips between those two points? Or, will there be a double track somewhere in between that can hold one train while the other one passes?

MCO is the end of the line for the moment though, so the train that heads west to MCO is also the one that is going to be heading east out of MCO. With the timing supposed to be an hour between trains, leaving MCO and getting onto the double tracked North-South track should probably be a max of 20 minutes considering its higher speed, so they'll have 40 minutes for another train to come in, and load up. Its only 30 miles of section at 125mph, which should be clearable in 15 minutes. It will all be double tracked as part of the Tampa extension, and portions may be double tracked during the WDW extension.

They also announced earlier this year they're exploring having some sections move at 150mph, especially on the Tampa route.

[HankStrong]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

I know, the sidings are strategically placed based on the modeling.   Also the spur from OUC doesn't count. 

From what I've read the OUC spur will be removed.  I didn't count that in my list.