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Over time, it will likely be huge as Paul Mears will likely be the last family member with a major role. I expect it to become more and more corporate with less of an impact on the city.

The downside is that Mears' corporate giving will also likely decrease, which will especially have an impact on Valencia.

Good job, btw, on picking up on it. I posted about it back in April but it didn't garner much attention at the time.

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15 hours ago, aent said:

I never understood this argument, as it was cheaper then the alternatives of elevated structures, like monorails. Obviously on the friction energy loss, its more important at high speeds, but the claim was that because the trains and equipment is much lighter, each pillar and track component could be much lighter weight and cheaper to build, and cheaper to operate as well. I personally am not a fan of mass transit that is not grade seperated, especially when you get to systems that are supposed to operate on a 15-20 minute cycle, like light rail.

I agree about grade separation, although, it is not always possible (e.g. the Lymmo/streetcar I mentioned in the other thread) it is ideal.

As a fan, not an expert in the field, I believe that low speed maglevs still actually roll on rubber wheels.  There aren't a lot of functional maglev systems in the world, but this thought is one of the reasons that I think this tech is wasted at low speeds.  Friction is the enemy of maglev and rubber wheels and their efficiency is when they are up to speed.  This type of route goes against all of those perks.

I have no idea about the cost of constructing the piers going down because of the lighter trains.

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2 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I agree about grade separation, although, it is not always possible (e.g. the Lymmo/streetcar I mentioned in the other thread) it is ideal.

As a fan, not an expert in the field, I believe that low speed maglevs still actually roll on rubber wheels.  There aren't a lot of functional maglev systems in the world, but this thought is one of the reasons that I think this tech is wasted at low speeds.  Friction is the enemy of maglev and rubber wheels and their efficiency is when they are up to speed.  This type of route goes against all of those perks.

I have no idea about the cost of constructing the piers going down because of the lighter trains.

Amsterdam has LRT running down the center of it's streets.  Are we that dick-broked that we can't cope with that kind of transit-street integration here?

They really need to integrate OCCC to rail transit.  McCormick has our number on that issue.  MBC:  Must Beat Chicago... (I know I Am Reality and a few others wouldn't agree)...

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It's important to remember that the whole "Downtown Orange County" crowd has been transitphobic all along. Remember, Harris Rosen and Co. (not to mention John Morgan) were the ones who led the charge against light rail.

There seems to be a mentality among the hospitality crowd (you can see the same thing in Daytona) to be locked in a 1950's development mentality. I've never completely understood it - I've just witnessed its existence for decades.

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31 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Amsterdam has LRT running down the center of it's streets.  Are we that dick-broked that we can't cope with that kind of transit-street integration here?

They really need to integrate OCCC to rail transit.  McCormick has our number on that issue.  MBC:  Must Beat Chicago... (I know I Am Reality and a few others wouldn't agree)...

Ask Houston LRT.  I believe that's the one presently that has the highest rate of crashes.

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14 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

It's important to remember that the whole "Downtown Orange County" crowd has been transitphobic all along. Remember, Harris Rosen and Co. (not to mention John Morgan) were the ones who led the charge against light rail.

There seems to be a mentality among the hospitality crowd (you can see the same thing in Daytona) to be locked in a 1950's development mentality. I've never completely understood it - I've just witnessed its existence for decades.

my thing is build an LRT down I-Drive, but do not cut down the Oaks tree median in doing so.  I couldn't bear to see I-Drive tree less south of SLR.  The cab drivers complaining about peds can bite me.  Drive more carefully and yield to peds.  there are some jaywalkers running through the burms, I know.  But do not even cut the trees down even for BRT.  There has to be another way.

See?  Morgan's stance makes no sense (unless they want affected businesses to pay into it).  Rosen?  Hmmm.  Dunno…  He just absorbed another I-Drive hotel I think.

10 minutes ago, codypet said:

Ask Houston LRT.  I believe that's the one presently that has the highest rate of crashes.

...Europeans are crazy drivers.  But there are too many stupid drivers in The States.  My cousin drives like a cabbie, in Chicago, and scares the ever loving sh!t out of me when he's behind the wheel.  But, he knows what he's doing; he drives like it's a video game and he's The Pinball Wizard (think Elton John).

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47 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Amsterdam has LRT running down the center of it's streets.  Are we that dick-broked that we can't cope with that kind of transit-street integration here?

They really need to integrate OCCC to rail transit.  McCormick has our number on that issue.  MBC:  Must Beat Chicago... (I know I Am Reality and a few others wouldn't agree)...

I actually agree that the convention center should be linked by rail (preferably by light rail).  I think the tourist district as a whole should get rail transit.  The demand exists and it would probably subsidize other routes.

Orlando should not ignore the needs of locals however.  It needs to serve both locals and tourists.  

I looked again at the most recent Metroplan report.  All of the proposed rail action will either be in the tourist district, near the airport, or in Osceola. 

And that is through 2040.

Downtown is virtually irrelevant.  In the downtown context, the Metroplan map shows only the established SunRail route and the long-shot 441 route proposal downtown.  EVERYTHING else is for tourists. 

In other words, the only proposal Metroplan will even seriously consider involving downtown is the OBX over the next 22 years.  

Metroplan barely mentions a proposed UCF route in passing as being under advisement.

I urge everyone to look at the Metroplan plan.  I tried posting the map of all proposed rail routes through 2040 (pg 17 of the executive summary), but could not do it.  Maybe someone else has better luck.  

It's very illustrative of where our transit priorities are (geographically).

I would also point out that the Metroplan "plan" is no "plan" at all.  It is completely piecemeal.  It's has an "anything that comes along" vibe with no cohesion whatsoever.

Edited by I am Reality
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^^

OBX is the easiest and can get ridership.  They're probably of the strategy of doing that first, then, once that is up and running, plan for a UCF connector which will cost way more $$$.

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I really like the idea of the OBX.  I am just not sure there is strong demand for it yet.  I am a big proponent of building transit proactively, to anticipate future demand.  I have no doubt that OBX demand will exist in the future.  And it would be cheaper since there is lots of open land out there.

In a perfect world, it will get built.

But right now, we have much larger needs.  I think we should focus on heavily populated areas now.  It makes little sense to serve smaller populations at the expense of more populated areas, just to save money.  

Rail transit needs to go where the people are.  If not, the system is useless and destined to fail.  There are so many more intra-city routes that are needed.

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3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

my thing is build an LRT down I-Drive, but do not cut down the Oaks tree median in doing so.  I couldn't bear to see I-Drive tree less south of SLR. 

Sadly, isn't the that the plan anyways with the addition of a bus/right turn lane all the way through the entire corridor?

I posted my transit thoughts on the route the tourist corridor takes in the thread in the coffee house (basically connect it to the airport then northeast to UCF and then back to downtown for a U shaped maglev/monorail route.

John Mica, before he was voted out, claimed that OBX was a dirt cheap route, if we were able to get the old trains from Tri-Rail (which I believe they were still sent to Orlando, no idea if they are getting any use or what is happening with them), the previous track upgrades were supposedly good enough to support a commuter train (according to Mica, as the spur is only to serve a few individual businesses from my understanding, so double tracking it would be unnecessary for an initial service) so just about the only costs were supposed to be land for stations along with building the stations.

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3 minutes ago, Dale said:

Who the hell cares ? Don't urban geeks want the government to get them shiny trains ?

So much for draining the swamp?

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12 minutes ago, Dale said:

Who the hell cares ? Don't urban geeks want the government to get them shiny trains ?

I the hell care.

And there is nothing "urban" about the Orlando leg.  

A shiny train that stops in an empty field does jack for me. 

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9 hours ago, I am Reality said:

I the hell care.

And there is nothing "urban" about the Orlando leg.  

A shiny train that stops in an empty field does jack for me. 

What exactly do you want it to do then?

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I, for one, would like a personal teleportation device that whisks me from the airport to my toilet. . . but only when I need it to. 

Wait. . .this desire has horrible consequences.  .  . 

Perhaps from the 7-11 to my refrigerator to get the best select hot foods and beer stocked daily. 

Maybe my doorstep to the airport and the themeparks , but only when I want it to. But can they come back to my doorstep?

Do we get 3 wishes like with the genie in the movies? 

hmmm. . . gonna have to think about this again. . . 

Seems harder than it should be at first glance. . . Who is paying for it again, the genie? 

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Let's dial it back a little.

Brightline in Tampa and Miami is not a "personal teleportation device".  Rather, its stations are being built in centralized locations in downtown Tampa and Miami.  That is a sensible decision.  Locals can easily access those stations.  In Orlando, Brightline will require taking 3 toll roads and spending 1+ hour in traffic to get to the OIA station.  That's not from my own home (that would even be harder to access).  The 3 toll roads and 1+ hour in traffic is FROM DOWNTOWN.  The entire trip to Miami on Brightline will save only 1 hour overall.  If it takes 1+ hour to access the OIA station from downtown, what exactly is the local benefit of taking it?  (The answer:  It's not for locals).

And are we seriously considering Scott a "genie"?  Does he have magical powers all of the sudden?   Is it too much to expect an elected official to not personally profit from HIS selection of transportation options (especially from "unsolicited offers")? 

Crazy how much we can lower our expectations.  There are apologists for everything, I guess.

Edited by I am Reality
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49 minutes ago, Ivanhoe said:

It’s easy - if you don’t like Rick Scott, vote.

Haha.  I just saw a Rick Scott commercial slamming his opponent for taking money from Medicare.  Maybe people should look at his campaign ads for governor when he admitted to Medicare fraud, apologized for it, and then stated "Let's get to work."  It's so wonderfully ridiculous, it makes me want to move to...somewhere...

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If they have a brightline stop on I-Drive for the Tampa leg, that is pretty darn close to a huge portion of the population in SW Orange county........ however, a simple sun rail connection to the airport would solve everything. So easy, I wish I can print money lol. 

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3 hours ago, shardoon said:

If they have a brightline stop on I-Drive for the Tampa leg, that is pretty darn close to a huge portion of the population in SW Orange county........ however, a simple sun rail connection to the airport would solve everything. So easy, I wish I can print money lol. 

...you could if you were an illuminati heir to JP Morgan & Co...

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10 hours ago, Urban Mail Carrier said:

I wish Orlando had a rich uncle.

As long as it wasn't Rick Scott.

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The 2011 Time article re: Scott cancelling the Orlando-Tampa HSR project.  

At the time, the writer called it a "glorified Disney shuttle."  That sounds kind of familar.  In fairness, the article also said it would have created 20k+ jobs.  I don't understand where that number came from, but it seems totally unrealistic.  I may have created a couple thousand jobs at the theme parks, at most.

http://swampland.time.com/2011/02/16/floridas-rick-scott-sends-high-speed-rail-packing/

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