Brightline Trains

[prahaboheme]

13 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

Here's the thing. People think buses are garbage, slow, inefficient and for poor people. Make dedicated lanes separated from traffic with little automated electric pod cars that have less capacity but run more frequently and have wi-fi and better operating cost efficiency, and suddenly. HOLY CRAP THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER. 

The millennials and automation are coming. Might as well get in front of it and do it right. Everybody else, including poor people, will benefit too.

Please let's do this! Better than trains, for sure for around town.  

Not to mention just how easy it would be to run BRT routes down the medians of a majority of Orlando metro major roads.

[Naqiy90]

9 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Here's the thing. People think buses are garbage, slow, inefficient and for poor people. Make dedicated lanes separated from traffic with little automated electric pod cars that have less capacity but run more frequently and have wi-fi and better operating cost efficiency, and suddenly. HOLY CRAP THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER. 

The millennials and automation are coming. Might as well get in front of it and do it right. Everybody else, including poor people, will benefit too.

Please let's do this! Better than trains, for sure for around town.  

Automated cars will never exist in our lifetimes.  Dedicated lanes with regular electric buses are what we need; no need to wastes time and money on technology that is vaporware from the beginning.

[jrs2]

10 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Here's the thing. People think buses are garbage, slow, inefficient and for poor people. Make dedicated lanes separated from traffic with little automated electric pod cars that have less capacity but run more frequently and have wi-fi and better operating cost efficiency, and suddenly. HOLY CRAP THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER. 

The millennials and automation are coming. Might as well get in front of it and do it right. Everybody else, including poor people, will benefit too.

Please let's do this! Better than trains, for sure for around town.  

Historically I have viewed buses as garbage.  The reason is because the counties have done a piss poor job of incorporating bus stops in a civilized manner.  You drive down the street and you see people standing on weeds next to a sign in the hot sun or rain waiting for the bus.  It’s like a form of transit hell.  Hell no am I gonna wait on the side of the road like some homeless person for a bus.

Now, if they changed things and created drive ups and driveways for buses up against mall buildings and/or hospitals or dedicated transit stops that were fully covered- reasonably, that is, so that you didn’t feel like you got evicted out of your house, then that would be different.  A park and ride bus lot would be different also.  It’s just these images of these bus stops along Kirkman  Rd and the like that I can’t get out of my head.  I feel for those people.

Even that bus stop off of US 192 in that shopping plaza which was also a transfer station.  It was up against regular width sidewalks and everyone waiting was waiting up against the wall of the building standing on sand and weeds, just like in the old days waiting for first period to start at my old junior high, like a bunch of vagabonds.  Well, in the words of Jay from Jay & Silent Bob “Well, f@ck that!”

[sunshine]

In this country, using bus as transportation is after thought and bike is recreation. Other countries, bus is an important form of transportation and so are bicycles.

[jliv]

2 hours ago, Naqiy90 said:

Automated cars will never exist in our lifetimes.  Dedicated lanes with regular electric buses are what we need; no need to wastes time and money on technology that is vaporware from the beginning.

Not true...

 

 

[dcluley98]

?  I don't understand. These closed system pod-type smaller transport cars already exist now.  The closed loop systems are the only thing that does not exist. It's really not all that difficult, could be passenger type vans/minivans with the uber/tesla type autopilot and some jersey barriers to separate from other traffic/pedestrians. Have set openings for cross traffic and pedestrian crosswalks and set the system to pause there when the signal says to stop and detect if something is in the way or jumped onto or obstructed the main path. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by dcluley98

[leondecollao]

12 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

Here's the thing. People think buses are garbage, slow, inefficient and for poor people. Make dedicated lanes separated from traffic with little automated electric pod cars that have less capacity but run more frequently and have wi-fi and better operating cost efficiency, and suddenly. HOLY CRAP THIS IS THE BEST THING EVER. 

The millennials and automation are coming. Might as well get in front of it and do it right. Everybody else, including poor people, will benefit too.

Please let's do this! Better than trains, for sure for around town.  

This is what I have been thinking the whole time reading this discussion. Automated cars will soon start to change the whole dynamic. They are coming and coming fast.  Rail might not make that much sense long term. Automated cars have the potential to fix our sprawl and transportation issues and they will not need dedicated lanes or any major infrastructure above and beyond what we currently have. 

[HankStrong]

4 hours ago, Naqiy90 said:

Automated cars will never exist in our lifetimes.  Dedicated lanes with regular electric buses are what we need; no need to wastes time and money on technology that is vaporware from the beginning.

Yeah, what you are selling, I'm not buying.  I think they will very much become a huge player in the very near future.  VERY near future.

[spenser1058]

9 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

Yeah, what you are selling, I'm not buying.  I think they will very much become a huge player in the very near future.  VERY near future.

Ford and GM sure think so. They're altering their businesses left and right to figure out how to take electrification and automation to scale.

[dcluley98]

Quite frankly, it will likely be the insurance companies that dictate what happens with this. The technology exists; that is not the issue. 

[Naqiy90]

Fully automated vehicles that can drive in real world conditions will not exist anytime soon if ever. The technology is definitely not there. Automated trains or buses on a guided track are viable tho, which is what transit systems should focus on. Here's a few article that back up my stance.

https://jalopnik.com/even-tesla-seems-to-be-getting-real-about-self-driving-1831644553

https://jalopnik.com/2018-was-a-hard-reality-check-for-autonomous-cars-1831182272

No need to reinvent the wheel; the secret to successful transit systems doesn't require A/Vs, Seattle has had massive increases in transit ridership just by increasing the quality of service.  AVs might be viable for the downtown Lymmo circulators or other small scale systems, but for a large regional system they're not helpful, unless we create a large automated and elevated train system like Skytrain in Vancouver and other automated rapid transit systems.

 

[jrs2]

35 minutes ago, Naqiy90 said:

Fully automated vehicles that can drive in real world conditions will not exist anytime soon if ever. The technology is definitely not there. Automated trains or buses on a guided track are viable tho, which is what transit systems should focus on. Here's a few article that back up my stance.

https://jalopnik.com/even-tesla-seems-to-be-getting-real-about-self-driving-1831644553

https://jalopnik.com/2018-was-a-hard-reality-check-for-autonomous-cars-1831182272

No need to reinvent the wheel; the secret to successful transit systems doesn't require A/Vs, Seattle has had massive increases in transit ridership just by increasing the quality of service.  AVs might be viable for the downtown Lymmo circulators or other small scale systems, but for a large regional system they're not helpful, unless we create a large automated and elevated train system like Skytrain in Vancouver and other automated rapid transit systems.

 

Yeah, I’ve spoken to a neighbor who has a Tesla and he told me about the self driving option (purchase now or later) and how they changed that recently.

The Pods example above- interesting system.  But it’s not too different in concept to the AGT at MCO.  It still needs a rail or guideway no matter how you slice it.  That, is nothing even remotely similar to a car automatically traveling down Kirkman Road and making a left turn onto Vineland and switching lanes, while avoiding pedestrians, potholes, red lights, getting cut off, and accidents.  Uniformity in road conditions is a major component of the viability of an automated car.  There is uniformity to a point.

[dcluley98]

2 hours ago, Naqiy90 said:

Automated trains or buses on a guided track are viable tho, which is what transit systems should focus on. 

AVs might be viable for the downtown Lymmo circulators or other small scale systems.
 

This is exactly what I am talking about. A closed system with guide-like barriers on each side.  The buses/cars/pods (whatever they end up) will be limited in their route and can be programmed to stop on through crossings and in case of emergency if a hazard or obstacle appears to impede their movement. That technology already exists. 

I don't think we will get to "fully automated" vehicles that everybody uses in a non-closed environment in my lifetime. I DO think we will get to see this on closed systems relatively soon.  

One of my best friends is an Intelligent Traffic Systems engineer for AECOM. He told me the technology is viable now, but everybody is afraid to do it because of the liability. In fact, he also told me that one reason we are seeing an increase in Variable Toll Lanes (Lexus lanes ) on major new highway projects is to somewhat future proof for the possibility of closed automated systems. It is very interesting. 

Edited January 11, 2019 by dcluley98

[Naqiy90]

28 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

This is exactly what I am talking about. A closed system with guide-like barriers on each side.  The buses/cars/pods (whatever they end up) will be limited in their route and can be programmed to stop on through crossings and in case of emergency if a hazard or obstacle appears to impede their movement. That technology already exists. 

I don't think we will get to "fully automated" vehicles that everybody uses in a non-closed environment in my lifetime. I DO think we will get to see this on closed systems relatively soon.  

One of my best friends is an Intelligent Traffic Systems engineer for AECOM. He told me the technology is viable now, but everybody is afraid to do it because of the liability. In fact, he also told me that one reason we are seeing an increase in Variable Toll Lanes (Lexus lanes ) on major new highway projects is to somewhat future proof for the possibility of closed automated systems. It is very interesting. 

Ahh okay, that sounds reasonable, sorry for the misunderstanding! I suppose such a system would be useful for limited corridors, I-Drive would be a great place for automated shuttles, but Orlando really is in dire need of a strong regional transit system. I'm hoping LYNX takes advantage of the new I-4 express lanes to create a strong system of express buses. Downtown, the theme parks, and I-Drive are the destinations for the majority of transit riders,  the system needs to be structured to transport people to and from these destinations efficiently and effectively without having to transfer downtown as required for most routes in the current system.

[prahaboheme]

ChicagoReaders take on the CDMX Metrobús:

https://m.chicagoreader.com/chicago/mexico-city-metrobus-bus-rapit-transit-lessons/Content?oid=21143743

Perhaps an example for Orlando courtesy of our southern neighbor.

Edited January 12, 2019 by prahaboheme

[jrs2]

On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 8:32 PM, prahaboheme said:

ChicagoReaders take on the CDMX Metrobús:

https://m.chicagoreader.com/chicago/mexico-city-metrobus-bus-rapit-transit-lessons/Content?oid=21143743

Perhaps an example for Orlando courtesy of our southern neighbor.

that could totally work here in Orlando I think.  easement is the big issue, though.  I'd like to see that on I-Drive, but I just don't want to see them tearing down the tree-laden median south of SLR.

[jliv]

15 hours ago, jrs2 said:

that could totally work here in Orlando I think.  easement is the big issue, though.  I'd like to see that on I-Drive, but I just don't want to see them tearing down the tree-laden median south of SLR.

The most viable alignment, IMHO, is Amelia to OBT to Sand Lake to Universal Drive.  The busiest Lynx routes are along that corridor, and OBT certainly can give up two lanes.

[Uncommon]

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2019/01/24/brightline-exec-theme-park-station-on-orlando-to.html?iana=hpmvp_orl_news_headline

The intercity passenger rail system Brightline is eyeing a potential stop for tourists in its future Orlando-to-Tampa route. 

“On our way to Tampa we will likely have a station somewhere around theme parks in Orlando and we think that’s going to be a great thing for our partnership with the Tampa airport," Bob O'Malley, Brightline’s vice president of governmental affairs, said during the Synapse Summit on Jan. 23. 

Which Orlando-area theme park was not named; however, in Brightline's bid to the Florida Department of Transportation, it had suggested Brightline may have a connection to Central Florida's commuter rail SunRail as well as a potential stop in Lakeland, and in a previous document it had revealed possible plans for a stop at Disney World.

In a preliminary prospectus inside of the rebranding as Virgin Trains USA in a U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission filing, Brightline had shown a map train of its current and future routes.

Enlarge

Brightline's current and future stops

UNITED STATES SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION DOCUMENTS

Two pink dots indicate future stations including one at Tampa and one at Disney. Although the map showed a possible Disney station in the SEC filing, it was not mentioned in the proposal to FDOT.

Further details were not revealed, but if Brightline were to pursue a station at or near Disney, it could prove difficult. Others such as Georgia-based American Maglev Technology Inc.wanted a potential for a stop at Disney during a future phase on its once-proposed $400 million Maglev elevated magnetic-levitation passenger train system. The proposed Los Angeles-based Virgin Hyperloop One tube train — a concept from Tesla and SpaceX CEO Elon Musk — also proposed a Disney stop as one of its destinations on its 257-mile route from Orlando to Miami. 

However, Brightline was looking at connecting to the SunRail Meadow Woods station in metro Orlando, which would provide easy access to Osceola County. 

The company plans to use rights of way along Interstate 4, State Road 528 and State Road 417 for the Tampa-to-Orlando connection. 

The Tampa expansion from the Tampa International Airport to an undisclosed Tampa terminal is expected to cost $1.7 billion. 

Brightline anticipates commencing passenger rail operations for the Tampa expansion in 2021 and that the Tampa route, being served with Virgin trains, would only be an hourlong travel time period for passengers. A one-way ticket will cost $35 for the Orlando-to-Tampa route. 

O'Malley said Brightline is considering other routes, as well. "We are reinventing train travel in the United States. It’s not a knock on Amtrak. Amtrak is a national system and connects lots of smaller markets and that’s what we aren’t trying to do," he said, explaining how Brightline looks for major city pairs. 

For example, Brightline is looking at a connection from Los Angeles to Las Vegas, and O'Malley said it may look at other connections such as Atlanta to Charlotte.

^Didn’t know if the paywall was active or not so I posted the entire article. Sorry for formatting suckiness.

[spenser1058]

Maybe it’s gonna stop at Gatorland!

[Urban25]

Total waste honestly, I wonder when will there be something that serves the actual residents of the Orlando area besides the sun rail

[spenser1058]

7 minutes ago, Urban25 said:

Total waste honestly, I wonder when will there be something that serves the actual residents of the Orlando area besides the sun rail

I concur on a local option like light rail but for intercity rail Amtrak stops in downtown Orlando, Winter Park and Kissimmee. It also makes non-downtown stops in Sanford and (Delightful!) DeLand.

[HankStrong]

22 minutes ago, Urban25 said:

Total waste honestly, I wonder when will there be something that serves the actual residents of the Orlando area besides the sun rail

For you. 

For me, it will do a lot and isn't a waste at all.  I'm an actual resident.

[Urban25]

1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

For you. 

For me, it will do a lot and isn't a waste at all.  I'm an actual resident.

What part of town do you stay in?

[HankStrong]

Don't get me wrong, I want a lot more options.  I'm very interested in rail and a big supporter of it.

To say that the Brightline is a total waste that doesn't serve actual residents of Orlando is a broad brush that you wield because it doesn't work for you.

 

If you made a grid of where I work, live, and play (for the most part) it would be

But I should add that I regularly travel to Tampa, WPB, FLL, and Miami for pleasure.  As well as Jax & Cocoa for future Virgin/Brightline stops.

[jliv]

Total waste honestly, I wonder when will there be something that serves the actual residents of the Orlando area besides the sun rail [emoji20]

A system which benefits all local residents isn’t going to be 100% privately-funded like this system. Some government support is needed, and local government hasn’t been supportive enough (and collaborative) over the decades to build momentum for a comprehensive system.


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