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Brightline Trains


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4 hours ago, dcluley98 said:

...but the minus is you have do deal with getting in an out of the station and getting local transport once you are at your destination.  At this time, that's maybe not enough to convince people to take the train instead of driving.

That's my issue with it. Living close to downtown Orlando, I would take it in a heartbeat if the station was downtown ($6 Uber ride from my house or get dropped off). To get the the airport is a whole other story for most people, unless you live in Lake Nona or off Semoran. Once you're in Miami, though, you have a lot more options. 

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The target market also includes people going on cruises out of Miami/Fort Lauderdale and flying out of Miami/WPB/Fort Lauderdale.

If I can take the train AND not pay to park at the airport or cruise terminal that saves me even more money.

 

The bigger picture issue is that it also helps the prospect of National Rail improving in future generations.  I know people love to only see as far as the end of their nose, but that's actually important.  If rail hadn't been dumped in the mid-20th century, we'd already be where most of the world is* or much further ahead.

 

 

* caveat being that I also am smart enough to know what automobile excellence did to this country in the world market, too.

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  • 3 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2017/01/20/miami-to-orlando-train-chugging-along-in-track.html

" All Aboard Florida expects the second phase of the project, running between West Palm Beach and Orlando International Airport, to begin operating before year-end."

Im quoting this from the article - but it's not an actual quote in the article (meaning the writer wrote/inferred it).

The OBJ - Pushing out alternative facts before it was cool!

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29 minutes ago, Jernigan said:

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2017/01/20/miami-to-orlando-train-chugging-along-in-track.html

" All Aboard Florida expects the second phase of the project, running between West Palm Beach and Orlando International Airport, to begin operating before year-end."

Im quoting this from the article - but it's not an actual quote in the article (meaning the writer wrote/inferred it).

The OBJ - Pushing out alternative facts before it was cool!

Had no idea that Kellyanne had another job. And right here in town, too!!! 

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Haha way off.  I almost thought it was a typeo and they meant to say West Palm to Miami end of this year.  I have a date now for Orlando service but I wouldn't put too much stock in it now.  My experience now with seeing Sunrail and Brightline is they won't know when revenue service will start until a month out because testing gets so finicky.  

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  • 1 month later...

Construction update on the OIA south terminal and intermodal complex:

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2017/02/14/touring-oias-new-intermodal-complex-photos.html

The whole complex should be completed by 2020 according to the article. I was hoping the Brightline and SunRail would match the opening but it looks like that isn't happening. I'm not sure at this point if either Brightline or Sunrail would get to OIA first, and it probably won't be another 5-10 years after that before the I-Drive light rail happens.

It's starting to look like the worst case scenario is being realized: the south terminal and intermodal facility will open without any rail service, only the people mover.

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4 hours ago, shardoon said:

They just interviewed the new CEO. He said there is now a 2.5 year delay for the Orlando route due to ongoing litigation with the local counties along the route. 

What a joke. Could Orlando wind up with a beautiful trainstation with no train?

I would imagine that Brevard County is a litigant. At some point the station to get MCO passengers to Port Canaveral needs to be built. Even if it's not a Brightline Train that services it. A partnership perhaps?  

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19 hours ago, metal93 said:

Construction update on the OIA south terminal and intermodal complex:

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2017/02/14/touring-oias-new-intermodal-complex-photos.html

The whole complex should be completed by 2020 according to the article. I was hoping the Brightline and SunRail would match the opening but it looks like that isn't happening. I'm not sure at this point if either Brightline or Sunrail would get to OIA first, and it probably won't be another 5-10 years after that before the I-Drive light rail happens.

It's starting to look like the worst case scenario is being realized: the south terminal and intermodal facility will open without any rail service, only the people mover.

Which is why there's a big push to build Terminal C quickly.

17 hours ago, Boomer136 said:

I would imagine that Brevard County is a litigant. At some point the station to get MCO passengers to Port Canaveral needs to be built. Even if it's not a Brightline Train that services it. A partnership perhaps?  

That's going to be a long ways off.

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I think GOAA knew all along this was a long shot but decided to use the momentum to build while they had the cash and an agreeable board.  To be honest, the Sunrail and convention center connection means a million times more to this community than a non-high speed train to S. Florida.  The only true benefit for Central Floridians of this proposed line is the MCO - Cruise Terminal portion, in my opinion.  The S. Florida connection is nice but not necessary.

That said, having the station already built will go a LONG way toward actually realizing the Sunrail and I4 connections.  Once it's done GOAA and their political might will be behind the projects so it doesn't look like a boondoggle 

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31 minutes ago, Universe_Explorer said:

I think GOAA knew all along this was a long shot but decided to use the momentum to build while they had the cash and an agreeable board.  To be honest, the Sunrail and convention center connection means a million times more to this community than a non-high speed train to S. Florida.  The only true benefit for Central Floridians of this proposed line is the MCO - Cruise Terminal portion, in my opinion.  The S. Florida connection is nice but not necessary.

That said, having the station already built will go a LONG way toward actually realizing the Sunrail and I4 connections.  Once it's done GOAA and their political might will be behind the projects so it doesn't look like a boondoggle 

 

I think Brightline is going to expand faster than we are expecting once they get the line to Orlando built.  Whatever the ruling on the current court case is may set a precedent that will prevent Lake and Osceola counties from trying to block construction of Brightline through to Tamp.  They also already own rail line that goes to Jacksonville, so that should be no problem.

With the current presidential administration's commitment to infrastructure and the pro-business attitudes it has, I would expect this to have the full support of the government for tax-free bonds and cheap loans for any future expansions.

But this all does depend on the precedent set by the ruling in the current lawsuit.

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A friend who worked on the project told me a while back that the company was registering the "All Aboard" name for all 50 states, e.g. All Aboard Florida, All Aboard Georgia, etc. It definitely seemed like Brightline is only the first route or leg of a larger system. Basically, it sounds like All Aboard will run routes like "Brightline" the way Amtrak runs routes like "Silver Star" and "Silver Meteor." 

The legal friction is getting on my nerves. At the risk of generalizing, I feel like those who are against the train a) didn't want the government to fund the Orlando-Tampa high-speed rail and/or b) are all for private sector business and property rights. People need to decide if they want to support government projects and have a say in them, or leave it to the will of the private sector. But you can't push everything on the private sector and then complain about them using their own land how they want to use it. 

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It comes down to the basic culture war that usually becomes referred to as R vs D of red vs blue and the principals associated therein.

But to see the sharp pivot from "if this was a good idea the private sector would do it" to "safety" concerns shows that they just don't support the idea of transit for cultural reasons whether it's an association with certain "types" of people or if just feels "too Europe."

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Right after posting my comment I came across this article over lunch:

Bill could put brakes on Orlando-to-Miami rail plans
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/politics/os-orlando-miami-rail-service-20170314-story.html

Couple interesting tidbits:

  • Phase II: "The company plans to run at speeds up to 79 mph between Miami and West Palm Beach. When the northern route is opened, Brightline trains are expected to travel up to 110 mph from Jupiter to Cocoa and then at 125 mph to Orlando." 
     
  • Future Phases: "Roberts added that the regulations threaten the company's plans to expand to Orlando and could hinder future connections to Tampa and Jacksonville."
     
  • "The measure also would require private passenger rail to cover the costs of installing and maintaining safety technology at crossings unless such contracts are agreed to by local governments...During her presentation to the committee, Mayfield twice said 'All Aboard Florida' before correcting herself to say 'any high-speed rail company' while explaining that Florida East Coast Industries currently is contracted to pass on repair costs to local governments."

I think the opposition is still trying hard to spin their stance as being fiscally conservative. But, realistically, the railroad is being nice by letting public roads cross their tracks, so I don't totally agree that the railroad should have to pay for the safety of public roads crossing their properties. 

On a general note, I would've definitely preferred the federally funded HSR option. The cronyism that went into making AAF happen left a bad taste in my mouth. But, now that we're here, let's make this happen. If people want to complain about public costs, safety, or cultural changes, they need to get some more substantial arguments. 

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The hypocrisy level is insane.  There is a subset of people on this planet that actually don't want anything to be ok unless it's something they personally want.  They take a formal position on the issue using a prop to disguise their TRUE feelings.  They don't want people to know their real reason, they want a convenient out.  (HUGE EXAMPLE: the College Park construction)

 

 

I actually just hate bunnies.

Someone proposes a bunny farm.  I go on record opposing it because of greenhouse gases caused by bunny farts. I love the environment!  I don't hate bunnies!

They propose a solution that turns bunny turds into a fart scrubbing miracle invention, so actually the more bunny turds produced = a cleaner environment.  The fart gasses are no problem!

I now oppose bunny farms because the cages are cruel in the scrubbing machines.

They make the cages into luxury bunny hotels.

I now oppose bunny luxury hotels because they cost too much.

On and on and on.  I will hate everything as much as I hate admitting my real position.

 

 

FYI, I actually love bunnies.

This garbage happens every time progress is on the horizon.  The Baby Boomers blamed the Silent Generation and said they wouldn't be caught dead doing this kind of thing.  The Silents have started to die off and now Gen X blames the Baby Boomers, who have taken on the role of killing progress.  The Millennials will blame (probably already are blaming) Gen X, who will no doubt assume the role.  The point being that instead of a type of thinking actually dying off, it just gets passed on.

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