Brightline Trains

[aent]

2 hours ago, Tim3167 said:

I just saw on an OBJ tweet that Brightline and Virgin have ended their partnership. Any thoughts on the impact of this?

I agree with the others. Only one station was rebranded and none of the trains.... and they did an absolutely stunning job on the Brightline branding and train designs... very memorable and as good as, say, the WDW monorail. I'm glad they were never rebranded.

[Jernigan]

I always thought it was strange how the rebranding took forever 

[codypet]

It might be possible that the owner of Brightline wasn't too happy the deal was done with Virgin in the first place. 

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, codypet said:

It might be possible that the owner of Brightline wasn't too happy the deal was done with Virgin in the first place. 

Fortress has a history of leaving governments in the lurch when times get tough. It will be interesting to see if they do here what they did to the Winter Games in British Columbia. But, hey, when you go gold mining with a PEF, they get the gold and you get the shaft. But of course this time everything will be different!

[spenser1058]

In this article from the Palm Beach Post about the Brightline - Virgin divorce, which apparently never moved past the hype stage (it seems the Virgin minority investment was never made), perhaps most telling are the pre-COVID numbers (the line shut down with the pandemic).

The 2019 passenger numbers were less than half the company’s projections, and revenue was less than 1/5 (suggesting a high number of free riders to pump up passenger counts).

The 2020 pre-COVID numbers, noted as higher, still don’t reach the original forecast even if you project the increases forward as continuing like the pandemic never happened and if we assume the growth would have continued.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200808/virgin-trains-no-more-brightline-severs-ties-with-richard-branson-empire

Edited August 10, 2020 by spenser1058

[prahaboheme]

Is the location of the Disney station confirmed? I’m curious to see how this will tie into their larger transportation network. 
 

[spenser1058]

20 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

Is the location of the Disney station confirmed? I’m curious to see how this will tie into their larger transportation network. 
 

So far as I can see after reviewing the articles on this, Disney’s last statement was last December. (In the Brightline statement released last week, it noted design and engineering for a WDW station has proceeded without confirming a site - Disney has made no recent statement).

In it, they have yet to confirm a location site. Disney also has yet to actually name Brightline as the carrier.

I would wait until Disney says something a bit more fully baked before assuming (a) it will happen and (b) where it will happen.

Brightline needs Disney much more than Disney needs Brightline. Like @prahaboheme, I’m curious how they get a Brightline passenger from a station on property to their hotel. DME currently sorts that at MCO.

DME is a free service whose goal is to keep Disney guests on property from the moment they arrive in Orlando. I’m not sure how Brightline achieves that goal. 

Since DME is free, why would someone pay for Brightline to go to Disney, only to have to get on yet another Disney bus to their hotel?

In that case, only those already on the train from South Florida would have any incentive to proceed further than MCO. That’s a relatively small group of guests arriving at MCO who are destined for WDW. I look forward to seeing more details also.

https://insidethemagic.net/2019/12/walt-disney-world-brightline-station-confirmed-tm1/

From Inside the Magic

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/transportation/os-ne-brightline-name-returns-virgin-bankruptcy-20200807-zajziy3wsza5tjsrg7tvc5rsaa-story.html

From the Sentinel 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by spenser1058

[prahaboheme]

This is always why I’ve favored a stop at I-Drive / convention center where there is a high likelihood conventioneers would actually take the train.

[shardoon]

14 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

So far as I can see after reviewing the articles on this, Disney’s last statement was last December. (In the Brightline statement released last week, it noted design and engineering for a WDW station has proceeded without confirming a site - Disney has made no recent statement).

In it, they have yet to confirm a location site. Disney also has yet to actually name Brightline as the carrier.

I would wait until Disney says something a bit more fully baked before assuming (a) it will happen and (b) where it will happen.

Brightline needs Disney much more than Disney needs Brightline. Like @prahaboheme, I’m curious how they get a Brightline passenger from a station on property to their hotel. DME currently sorts that at MCO.

DME is a free service whose goal is to keep Disney guests on property from the moment they arrive in Orlando. I’m not sure how Brightline achieves that goal. 

Since DME is free, why would someone pay for Brightline to go to Disney, only to have to get on yet another Disney bus to their hotel?

In that case, only those already on the train from South Florida would have any incentive to proceed further than MCO. That’s a relatively small group of guests arriving at MCO who are destined for WDW. I look forward to seeing more details also.

https://insidethemagic.net/2019/12/walt-disney-world-brightline-station-confirmed-tm1/

From Inside the Magic

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/transportation/os-ne-brightline-name-returns-virgin-bankruptcy-20200807-zajziy3wsza5tjsrg7tvc5rsaa-story.html

From the Sentinel 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I always was from the school of thought that Disney pays brightline a fraction of what they pay Mears to run DME and filter all the Disney guests on the train. Everyone wins here. 

[spenser1058]

2 hours ago, shardoon said:

I always was from the school of thought that Disney pays brightline a fraction of what they pay Mears to run DME and filter all the Disney guests on the train. Everyone wins here. 

I question whether Brightline can run the same capacity as DME (several buses running every 20 minutes during peak periods). Also, if you did put them all on Brightline at MCO, you have the same problem at the end of the line. All those guests have to leave the train and then find a bus to their resort. It’s adding an unnecessary extra step for ops and guests. Also, don’t know if this is temporary or permanent but guests now have to pick up their luggage at MCO. Will they have to pick it up again after leaving the train at WDW? That’s on top of guests who have already arrived using the on-property transportation system. That’s creating a huge bottleneck only going to WDW and then emptying the train as it heads to Tampa. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by spenser1058

[aent]

On 8/10/2020 at 11:51 PM, spenser1058 said:

I question whether Brightline can run the same capacity as DME (several buses running every 20 minutes during peak periods). Also, if you did put them all on Brightline at MCO, you have the same problem at the end of the line. All those guests have to leave the train and then find a bus to their resort. It’s adding an unnecessary extra step for ops and guests. Also, don’t know if this is temporary or permanent but guests now have to pick up their luggage at MCO. Will they have to pick it up again after leaving the train at WDW? That’s on top of guests who have already arrived using the on-property transportation system. That’s creating a huge bottleneck only going to WDW and then emptying the train as it heads to Tampa. 

DME often takes 2 hours. Thats a very easy performance number to beat. The buses at the transfer station are expected to go straight to a smaller number of hotels, much like the rest of Disney's existing buses servicing the parks and Disney Springs. A short route makes that possible, while the long distance between the airport and Disney makes it necessary to have buses serve more locations. Also since the bus routes are fixed to the train with a more fixed schedule, they can ensure there is minimal or no waits for the transfer. Disney Skyliner requires getting off at most stations to transfer to the next stage of your journey, and thats not viewed as any sort of issue, as long as the total travel time is kept low.

I'm sure a number of people would love the novelty of riding a luxury higher speed train to start off their Disney trip, instead of getting from a cramped airplane to a cramped coach bus for another hour. I'd imagine that novelty and improved experience  will reduce the likelihood people rent cars... which in turn will help Disney's goal of keeping people on property.

My understanding is the luggage issue is temporary due to coronavirus. Service should be straight to the room as it was before once things return to normal.

[shardoon]

4 hours ago, aent said:

DME often takes 2 hours. Thats a very easy performance number to beat. The buses at the transfer station are expected to go straight to a smaller number of hotels, much like the rest of Disney's existing buses servicing the parks and Disney Springs. A short route makes that possible, while the long distance between the airport and Disney makes it necessary to have buses serve more locations. Also since the bus routes are fixed to the train with a more fixed schedule, they can ensure there is minimal or no waits for the transfer. Disney Skyliner requires getting off at most stations to transfer to the next stage of your journey, and thats not viewed as any sort of issue, as long as the total travel time is kept low.

I'm sure a number of people would love the novelty of riding a luxury higher speed train to start off their Disney trip, instead of getting from a cramped airplane to a cramped coach bus for another hour. I'd imagine that novelty and improved experience  will reduce the likelihood people rent cars... which in turn will help Disney's goal of keeping people on property.

My understanding is the luggage issue is temporary due to coronavirus. Service should be straight to the room as it was before once things return to normal.

That was my thinking as well. 

[AmIReal]

I know "boxjacking" has been discussed previously, but this is the 1st time I've seen it used. Pretty cool.

https://www.fox35orlando.com/video/849549

[Jerry95]

Another angle on the Goldenrod box-jack

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/transportation/os-ne-brightline-tunnel-construction-20200917-cj66ylrgafah7dlb6iiuekatye-story.html

[spenser1058]

Potential  sites for Brightline Ybor City station proposed:

https://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/news/2020/09/15/brightline-darryl-shaw-ybor-city-rail-station.html

From OBJ

Edited September 18, 2020 by spenser1058

[elefants]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Potential  sites for Brightline. Ybor City station proposed:

https://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/news/2020/09/15/brightline-darryl-shaw-ybor-city-rail-station.html

From OBJ

Yes please.  Then, if they ever build a Rays stadium there, I'd be over the moon.

[spenser1058]

18 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Brightline has just what a company more interested in development than in transporting passengers really needs: all the trappings of a train with none of the expenses of, you know, running one:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-brightline-weighs-service-resumption-20200930-mra764bogfestpnymvajoyzcqm-story.html

From The Sun-Sentinel

They missed on the name: it should be “The Potemkin Express”

[codypet]

One of their conductors took to facebook the other night and stated they won't be back to work until the Orlando leg starts running in 2022.  Positive Train Control being an issue on the existing leg.  

[aent]

5 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Brightline has just what a company more interested in development than in transporting passengers really needs: all the trappings of a train with none of the expenses of, you know, running one:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-coronavirus-brightline-weighs-service-resumption-20200930-mra764bogfestpnymvajoyzcqm-story.html

From The Sun-Sentinel

They missed on the name: it should be “The Potemkin Express”

Did you read the article you posted? If you did, I don't think you comprehended it:

Brightline, while they haven't decided a reopening date for service, broke ground on a new station (with no attached retail or other use, neglecting your entire post) at Aventura and is expecting to break ground on another station in Boca in the next month or so. So in the next couple months, Brightline will be constructing 3 new stations, all of which they will be leasing and paying the government money to operate on, and are unlike their existing stations of having no real estate value to the company, literally 100%  unequivocally proving you wrong. Including 100s of miles of new track for this too.

[jack]

14 hours ago, aent said:

Did you read the article you posted? If you did, I don't think you comprehended it:

Brightline, while they haven't decided a reopening date for service, broke ground on a new station (with no attached retail or other use, neglecting your entire post) at Aventura and is expecting to break ground on another station in Boca in the next month or so. So in the next couple months, Brightline will be constructing 3 new stations, all of which they will be leasing and paying the government money to operate on, and are unlike their existing stations of having no real estate value to the company, literally 100%  unequivocally proving you wrong. Including 100s of miles of new track for this too.

They seem pretty committed to me. 

[aent]

2 hours ago, jack said:

They seem pretty committed to me. 

Yup. I literally have never seen a more committed transit system and they really have designed something that is the envy of the world once they finish the next phase or 2. A transit system that gives the government money instead of taking tax dollars, really fancy, among the top in the world, reasonable prices, and a reasonably good schedule.

[spenser1058]

SCOTUS declined to hear Indian River County’s appeal against Brightline and thus the private rail line prevails:

https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/local/shaping-our-future/all-aboard-florida/2020/10/05/u-s-supreme-court-wont-hear-appeal-indian-river-countys-brightline-appeal/3624678001/
 

From TC Palm

[spenser1058]

Brightline promo:
 

https://youtu.be/ThAAMBR5peA

Edited October 6, 2020 by spenser1058

[spenser1058]

Miami-Dade delays vote on preferred Brightline station locations:

https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2020/10/06-digest-miami-dade-delays-vote-on-stations-for-brightline-commuter-service

From Trains.com