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fwiw this will be my last post in this thread. I respect your right to an opinion. I hope you respect mine as well. I want my city and state to be a welcoming place for all people, especially intellectual forward thinking people. That's all

 

Samson, the problem is that you went off in a bunch of directions. I just simply asked the question that you didn't answer. You said definitively that Tennessee's legislature was the worst in the nation. I wanted to know what you considered to have the best.

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I was intending to post a rather lengthy response, but for now, I'll just refrain seeing as how FieldMarshaldj essentially proved my argument far better than I ever could anyway.  Generally, I'm not worried about people of that ilk.  Why?  Because despite the paranoid, frantic, desperate, fear and sometimes hate (which is just an expression of fear) centered ravings and rantings of some social conservatives (note that I said social, not fiscal) throughout the ages, society has always and will always eventually progress once those folks slowly have their mostly irrational fears adequately quelled. 

 

Fear is a natural thing, and in some cases, it's even healthy.  It's just a shame though that real human beings, through no fault of their own, have to suffer, sometimes severely, in the meantime simply because some would rather fear things and people that they do not understand rather than simply make an attempt to understand them.  What makes matters even worse is that often times, those people aren't able to deal with their fears in a healthy manner, and would prefer instead to lash out at the object of their fears (whether that object is ethnic minorities, empowered women, homosexuals, immigrants, atheists, tenants of a religion unfamiliar to them etc.) and then compound the issue by attempting to create an aire of fake nobility and virtue around their negative words and actions by attributing them to some skewed concept of patriotism and/or religious duty.  Some, like our friend FieldMarshaldj even go so far as to create completely alternate realities in which they are, somehow, the true victims, even though they're almost always the ones on the offensive.  These schemes, of course, hint at the probability that deep down, they are aware that their beliefs are wrong, but they generally do whatever it takes to maintain the facade so they can avoid having to confront their fears (and the subsequent guilt) like mature adults. It's actually some pretty complex psychology, but it's a game that most rational individuals can see right through, I think.  It's just unfortunate that it sometimes takes so long for people to come to terms with it themselves and admit that it's all an elaborate charade.

 

 

Damn, BNA, how I love being psychoanalyzed by a member of the august opposition (emphasis on "psycho."). I think you'd be interested to know I was once on that side of the political rainbow when I was younger, and fortunately grew up and out of that strange and curious malady. It was only because when you got right down to it, the mental gymnastics required to remain on that side, coupled with jettisoning time-honored traditions of right and wrong, simple common-sense and whatever other redefinitions du jour of all other issues manner and sort to appease the dysfunctional angry mobs, coupled with and egged on by their pseudo-intellectual ringleaders, was just too much to bear. Paranoia, fear, desperation, hate, some of the choice descriptives you used, all seem to be part and parcel of the world-class level of cognitive dissonance of that side of the equation.

 

Simply put, you guys have a nasty of habit of projecting everything you think and do onto the opposition. I also especially love the part about the implication of how "deep down" we don't REALLY believe what we believe, which points to the level of delusion and insecurity amongst those whose "moral" groundings are set in quicksand. This fast and furious rush to recreate what is an Orwellian '1984' crossed with "Idiocracy" as the ideal utopian state is truly stupifying. A deification of the avante-garde, the decadent and disordered and villification of tradition, decency and morality. To see such a psychosis embraced and/or foisted on a large scale always leads to an inevitable destruction, despite the protestations that "this time" it'll really work (to paraphrase Ted Kennedy on how leftism will work when he's in charge).

 

I'm always proud to be at the vanguard to remind folks that they need not follow off the cliff along with those self-proclaimed "right-thinking" PC drones. To suffer the slings and arrows of their indignant tongues is indeed a badge of honor to be worn proudly.

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This topic is obviously a very emotionally charged one for many people, regardless of where they stand on the topic.  And like many emotionally charged topics, there can be a lot of screaming and demeaning of folks on either side.   I don't want to add to that tone.  Instead, I will talk about it in the same terms that I talk about it within my own family.  In the interest of full disclosure, I am a gay man.  I am also a GenXer and have always been a wary of the "culture wars" that have gone on largely between the Baby Boom generation.

 

But it seems to me that there is something afoot in American society (or, in the societies of Europe and the Western Hemisphere) that does go beyond left or right talking heads and PACS with regard to LGBT individuals.  And that is the fact that with more and more LGBT individuals coming out and being honest with themselves and their families, that straight people, regardless of their own religious or political beliefs, are on average less and less likely to want to demonize their LGBT friend/mother/father/uncle/aunt/sister/brother/cousin than was the case in the past.  This growing familiarity may not necessarily change their political or even their own religious views, but it may change their perception of the treatment of their family members.  And while there is certainly a lot of time and money spent among competing think tanks and national organizations, to my mind a lot of this sea change with regard to our society's treatment of LGBT individuals is not due to elites but is due to "regular" people, regardless of sexual orientation, and I include myself as one of those regular people. 

 

In my own family there are inviduals with deeply held religious beliefs about various topics (my Church of Christ family members believe that music in church services is a sin; my Cathoic famiy members believe that divorce is a sin) but we are careful not to talk to or about each other in ways that are hurtful and that serve no constructive purpose.  Senator Campfield is not so careful.

 

Getting back to the built environment, I think that the real question is whether comments made by Senator Campfield and others will hinder businesses from relocating to Tennessee or something like that.  Honestly, I don't think so.  Businesses make decisions based upon their bottom lines.  Tennessee's (and even largely Democratic Nashville's) tax and other policies are pretty business friendly.  And Nashville's "competitor" cities like Austin and Charlotte are similar to Nashville in that those cities exist in states whose state and federal representation is at least as hostile to LGBT individuals as Tennessee's.  Nevertheless, when it comes to corporate relocations, private or publicly-held corporations are largely free to add in protections for sexual orientation/gender expression to their employment and benefits packages if they want to do that.  Fortunately, more and more of these large, successful Fortune 500 businesses are doing just that. 

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bwithers - I am also gay.  But part of the Baby Boom generation.  I posted the original clip from the Colbert Report.  I didn't expect it to generate much attention.  I aggree, things are changing.  I never imagined when I first came out to many years ago that states would pass laws that would allow same sex marriage.  I also have a very mixed family.  Two uncles that are Southern Babtist preachers,  atheists, Catholics, Methodists, agnostics, etc...... The more we put ourselves out there, the less fearful people become, which leads to less hate.

 

I am fortunate to work for a company that has written in there policies that includes protection of LGBT employees and offers heath insurance to significant others.  Applies to both same sex and unmarried straight people. 

 

The last paragraph bothers me. Nashville, in the not to distant past, passed a law that anyone wanting to do business with the city had to have LGBT protection in there policies.  This is something most cities in this country already have and has been around for a long time.  Then of course our state government decided to pass a law that forbids any city to have such a law.  So Nashville's law was made illegal.  These are the type of things that happen here that simply dismays me.  You are probably correct about companies moving here and not really caring about these things.  Making money is the bottom line and how much they can get the government to give them for moving here. 

 

I would love to see a fortune 500 company that is looking to move here dismiss TN because of these rediculous laws that keep popping up.

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  • 2 weeks later...

What is typical is that virtually anything he says is misreported or deliberately distorted. If and when he does make a statement, right or wrong, the attention he receives dwarfs that of other elected officials (rarely do I see such attention paid to members of the opposition who say and do ghastly things on a frequent basis). I could also similarly care less what outsiders think about him, based on either that aforementioned misreporting or a hatred for someone who pursues a non-radical, non-PC agenda.

 

It is clear the elites in this state loathe him because he isn't PC, and doesn't toe the trendy, radical line, and that makes him an enormous breath of fresh air in this extraordinarily stale and statist climate. Given that my own representatives (Sherry Jones, Thelma Harper & Jim Cooper) are thoroughly useless and support and vote for causes I find viscerally repugnant, I look to leaders like Sen. Campfield to stand up for my beliefs and views. God bless him for it. :yahoo:

 

You know, the right wing has become so predictable. Cry cry cry that you're the only people persecuted, as if someone has held some pillow over your nose and into your face all your life, claim you're the only non-PC people around, then you turn around and demagogue, call names, and stand in the way of rights for other people. There is a clear difference between being political incorrect and just being a hateful idiot, and people's words speak for themselves. Senator Campfield is one of those hateful, blathering idiots. Campfield isn't anti-PC, he's a moron. There's a difference.

 

You cannot stand on one side of the fence and pretend to be persecuted then go to the other side of the fence and keep other people from having rights. It isn't PC to say that gay people should have rights as others have, it is just the right thing to do.

 

I haven't paid attention to this forum in a long time; however, I wasn't expecting to come back and hear someone support such stupidity in open fashion. It certainly lets people know the level of character for those that hold their anti-gay opinions.

 

In so far as corruption, I have lived in New York State for over three years now. This state isn't poorly ran any more than Tennessee. FWIW, both California and New York have been ran by Republican administration for the majority of the last 20 years. In NYS the Republican majority state senate allowed gay marriage to pass. And WTF is up with the Chicago demonization? Just because its the most Democratic voting major city in the nation doesn't mean its more corrupt. They have lower taxes than the other two major cities of America, property is more affordable, and the only reason gun crime is up right now is because of our failed war on drugs. Its not something a Democrat OR a Republican can magically shake a wand at and fix. Per Capita, Dallas and Houston are also very violent, and they are in fairly conservative regions. Crime is an American problem, not a Democrat or Republican problem.

 

In so far as other things, I've been in Nashville twice in the past few months for holidays and visiting family since a family member has come down with cancer. I noticed that there is no longer a book store beside Blue Genes, what happened to several of the businesses on Church St?

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Damn, BNA, how I love being psychoanalyzed by a member of the august opposition (emphasis on "psycho."). I think you'd be interested to know I was once on that side of the political rainbow when I was younger, and fortunately grew up and out of that strange and curious malady. It was only because when you got right down to it, the mental gymnastics required to remain on that side, coupled with jettisoning time-honored traditions of right and wrong, simple common-sense and whatever other redefinitions du jour of all other issues manner and sort to appease the dysfunctional angry mobs, coupled with and egged on by their pseudo-intellectual ringleaders, was just too much to bear. Paranoia, fear, desperation, hate, some of the choice descriptives you used, all seem to be part and parcel of the world-class level of cognitive dissonance of that side of the equation.

 

Simply put, you guys have a nasty of habit of projecting everything you think and do onto the opposition. I also especially love the part about the implication of how "deep down" we don't REALLY believe what we believe, which points to the level of delusion and insecurity amongst those whose "moral" groundings are set in quicksand. This fast and furious rush to recreate what is an Orwellian '1984' crossed with "Idiocracy" as the ideal utopian state is truly stupifying. A deification of the avante-garde, the decadent and disordered and villification of tradition, decency and morality. To see such a psychosis embraced and/or foisted on a large scale always leads to an inevitable destruction, despite the protestations that "this time" it'll really work (to paraphrase Ted Kennedy on how leftism will work when he's in charge).

 

I'm always proud to be at the vanguard to remind folks that they need not follow off the cliff along with those self-proclaimed "right-thinking" PC drones. To suffer the slings and arrows of their indignant tongues is indeed a badge of honor to be worn proudly.

 

More typical right wing argument... Claim you were a former liberal. Claim you're learned the "error of your ways". Claim you're anti-PC, and as if conservatism is the only bastion of anti-PC (and pretend Bill Maher doesn't exist, which is America's leading anti-politically correct figure IMO), then pretend every person who doesn't agree with you is some pinko commie nazi muslim atheist pig.

 

Stop. Rewind. Repeat. Its old, yawn.

 

What I can't understand is that if you're not going to have a positive message about gay rights, why click on a topic of gay rights, and why stick your nose into the discussion? You can't stick your nose into a discussion stating you're against rights then cry cry cry PC protectionism when you're told you're wrong.

 

I don't know what is more annoying, the fact that you're trying to play the victim card or the fact that you're telling other people they shouldn't have rights while you play victim.

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"In so far as other things, I've been in Nashville twice in the past few months for holidays and visiting family since a family member has come down with cancer. I noticed that there is no longer a book store beside Blue Genes, what happened to several of the businesses on Church St?"

 

The bookstore fell to the same fate of so many other bookstores in recent years:  lack of sufficient patronage to continue a bricks-and-mortar operation.  The owners decided to retire.  That space is now divided in two.  The part closer to 17th is Canvas Lounge, which is a LGBT bar.  It's pretty nice - and nonsmoking!  It is has kind of a shotgun layout similar to a Chicago bar.  Canvas features local art works on the walls and has some live entertainment events.  The part closer to Blue Gene's is OutCentral Cultural Center.  Blue Gene's is still there (and very smoky) and is a pretty popular Karaoke bar in town.  Tibe/Play are still anchors a few blocks down the street. 

 

In terms of bars in other parts of town, there are still the 3 bars off of 4th Ave South near the fairgrounds (Purple Heys, Stirrup, Trax) and then there are the two at 14th/Woodland in East Nashville (Lipstick Lounge, Mad Donna's).

 

There are a couple of venues in Nashville that are doing well catering to LGBT dance events:  5 Spot in East Nashville and the Mercy Lounge have monthly dance events that are marketed to the LGBT audience.

 

On the other hand, many, many bars in Nashville, and especially East Nashville have mixed crowds and for the most part LGBT folks seem to feel pretty comfortable in most establishments in town.  Personally, I find that a lot of the eulogizing over "gay bars" that have passed gets a little old.  Tales about "the good old days" of The Chute get downright tedious.  Bars are no longer the center of LGBT life in Nashville, and that is a good thing!  If anything, I would say that the dominant sector in Nashville's LGBT community are the many reconciled/more light/affirming churches in our city. 

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Welcome back, Brandon. OutLoud closed a few years ago because the owners were ready to retire and they couldn't find anyone to take over the business. Obviously a bookstore is a tough sale these days. I believe Lucky's Garage is the only other LGBT business that has closed on Church Street. That bar was down behind the Hustler Hollywood store so the location was sort of unfortunate.

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More typical right wing argument... Claim you were a former liberal. Claim you're learned the "error of your ways". Claim you're anti-PC, and as if conservatism is the only bastion of anti-PC (and pretend Bill Maher doesn't exist, which is America's leading anti-politically correct figure IMO), then pretend every person who doesn't agree with you is some pinko commie nazi muslim atheist pig.

 

Stop. Rewind. Repeat. Its old, yawn.

 

What I can't understand is that if you're not going to have a positive message about gay rights, why click on a topic of gay rights, and why stick your nose into the discussion? You can't stick your nose into a discussion stating you're against rights then cry cry cry PC protectionism when you're told you're wrong.

 

I don't know what is more annoying, the fact that you're trying to play the victim card or the fact that you're telling other people they shouldn't have rights while you play victim.

 

Um, I glance through all local threads with new posts. I commented because of the attack on Sen. Campfield. I am a strong supporter of his, and I make no apologies for that. So sorry if I didn't join in on the cheap shots and other ignorant comments made about him.

 

BTW, I wrote a full reply to your first out-of-the-blue assault post, but since I don't care to have my posts removed by your like-minded buddies who can't handle a frank and truthful and un-PC response, I will only send it via mail.

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"Frank and truthful"  :rofl: Dude, folks like you and Stacey Campfield live life under a shroud of utter delusion denying other people's realities because they don't conveniently fit into the fake little social constructs you've become accustomed to. I can do nothing but laugh as I see 20th century vestigial relics like you both poorly adjust to the shifting views and demographics around them. 

 

And quit being a drama queen feigning like you're being victimized here of all places. If your xenophobic Antioch rant wasn't removed a few months ago, then I doubt anything in this thread will be removed. We're all big boys and girls here. We can handle differences of opinion. 

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"Frank and truthful"  :rofl: Dude, folks like you and Stacey Campfield live life under a shroud of utter delusion denying other people's realities because they don't conveniently fit into the fake little social constructs you've become accustomed to. I can do nothing but laugh as I see 20th century vestigial relics like you both poorly adjust to the shifting views and demographics around them. 

 

You mean we refuse to embrace the perturbed, the dysfunctional and the disordered. With you bizarre folks leading the way, the 21st century will prove itself to be the most unimaginably horrid, indeed. Just how you like it. Why do you hate America so much that you want to destroy it ?

 

 

And quit being a drama queen feigning like you're being victimized here of all places.

 

Drama queen ? That's rich. You and your posse can't handle your social agenda being criticized or exposed. Another poster going off on tangents on how TN's legislature is the worst in the nation (hey, if it's so bad, move !) and then goes running off when he can't answer the question on what is best. You guys have your talking points and personal attacks, and not much else. You all sound alike, not a single critical thinker amongst you.

 

If your xenophobic Antioch rant wasn't removed a few months ago, then I doubt anything in this thread will be removed. We're all big boys and girls here. We can handle differences of opinion. 

 

My xenophobic rant ? What was xenophobic about it ? Telling the truth ? Oh, yes, I guess someone who has lived in a place for 39 years and watched it grow and then deteriorate under dysfunctional and willfully negligent and harmful leadership has no business making a comment that doesn't fit the leftist PC narrative that an illegal invasion of an underclass of folks doesn't ADD to the community, right ? I guess watching two cops nearly get murdered in front of your house by one of those paragons of diversity can change your attitude. But, hey, as long as it ain't happening in your neck of the woods. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

Handle a difference of opinion. Aries, you and your boys have a difference of reality.

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fieldmarshall, your ignorance is laughable, and I'm not going to respond to it anymore. I've already addressed it, you're playing victim is very rich considering your side of the fence wants to keep rights from other people. Its a straw man's argument, and you've already lost. Its just a matter of time before it sinks in that you've lost.

 

Anyway, I suppose its true that bookstores have become passe, but I disagree that neighborhood bars and clubs are passe. In an increasing electronic world, its nice to have a human interaction every so often. Bars and clubs perform an outlet for fun that is more than hopping online (or on your phone) for a quick chat or whatever.

 

I hate to hear Lucky's closed, it seemed to have a good layout when I remember last visiting years ago. My musical tastes aren't in line with most places though, I love electro and various forms of it, and most bars today play some form of hip hop and pop remixes which isn't my thing. Lucky's doesn't sound like it lasted that long from the sound of it, I forget when it opened, but it couldn't have been open but a few years.

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fieldmarshall, your ignorance is laughable, and I'm not going to respond to it anymore.

 

Ah, same predictable comments from the posse. Can't answer the points, so just cut and run after firing a few more cheap shots as a substitute for logical debate. As for ignorance, I'd cite your first attack post was a whopper. It's unfortunate, because someone who actually managed to write a very convincing and coherent argument on mass transit (that demonstrated some critical thinking) can't quite muster the intellectual integrity on a political/social debate.

 

 

 

I've already addressed it, you're playing victim is very rich considering your side of the fence wants to keep rights from other people. Its a straw man's argument, and you've already lost. Its just a matter of time before it sinks in that you've lost.

 

Naah, you've just issued the same cheap shots and talking points ad infinitum as your posse. You play the victim (as you side always does) and whine that those of us who dare stand for morality/cultural stability (if not basic biology) won't cater to and applaud this bizarre and harmful dysfunction and champion said demands for trendy "rights" that have no logical or historical (or moral) standing. It is nothing but a grotesque and evil assault on the very bedrock of civilization and religious institutions.

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Ah, same predictable comments from the posse. Can't answer the points, so just cut and run after firing a few more cheap shots as a substitute for logical debate. As for ignorance, I'd cite your first attack post was a whopper. It's unfortunate, because someone who actually managed to write a very convincing and coherent argument on mass transit (that demonstrated some critical thinking) can't quite muster the intellectual integrity on a political/social debate.

 

 

 

 

Naah, you've just issued the same cheap shots and talking points ad infinitum as your posse. You play the victim (as you side always does) and whine that those of us who dare stand for morality/cultural stability (if not basic biology) won't cater to and applaud this bizarre and harmful dysfunction and champion said demands for trendy "rights" that have no logical or historical (or moral) standing. It is nothing but a grotesque and evil assault on the very bedrock of civilization and religious institutions.

 

Marshall... If you couldn't read plain English, I'm not going to respond to your nonsense any longer on this topic. Keep your nose out of other people's business.

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Marshall... If you couldn't read plain English, I'm not going to respond to your nonsense any longer on this topic. Keep your nose out of other people's business.

 

For someone who promises not to respond, you keep coming back to fire more shots. We'd love to stay out of other people's "business," if only you'd stop flaunting it in our faces 24/7 and demanding validation and approval for it. Tell you what, how about you stop shoving your radical agenda down our throats ? Mmm-kay ?

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Field marshall,

 

People would address your points if you had them. As to your question as to who is the best legislature: I have no clue. And you are right, we are probably not the worst. But we definitely have tons of room to improve.

 

The beautiful thing about this thread is that no arguing has to be done. You turn people off from your side without realizing it.

 

Lastly, no one is demanding validation. What does that even mean? You would like to deny equal rights and I wouldn't. Its that simple. And lol at 'radical agenda being shoved down our throats'. Come on buddy.

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That's damn strange, my post simply vanished.

 

(Nevermind, just discovered it was nuked because of "inappropriate language" -- I dared to refer to God !)

 

Since I see the chilling bad old times of 2006 returning of having entire posts removed for offending PC sensibilities, I'll not have my time wasted by replying in this thread anymore. Mission accomplished, fellas. You just made my point completely.

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Those that already have their deeply ingrained indoctrination and reject critical thinking will refuse to see the reason of the arguments of my side.

So...you don't have a deeply ingrained indoctrination (that is religiously influenced, btw) and you don't reject critical thinking and refuse to see the arguments from the other side?

I have tried to avoid this topic since my first two posts, because it has debased into nothing more than a heated mudslinging and name-calling contest.

While I'm not sure anyone here has bothered to frame a particularly good argument, I do take issue with your sanctimonious approach of taking the moral high ground. I am a Christian myself. To claim your rights come from God, I must ask, how many crimes against humanity have taken place under the banner of the Christian church? From mass genocide of "heretics" to church endorsed racism and slavery. The church as an institution is not perfect. I am not sure what denomination you follow, but Christianity in general certainly has a deep dark history. Church leaders have used demagoguery to enhance their powers and oppress people that they did not like. They used their power to influence and indoctrinate those that followed them to commit very un-Christian acts in the name of some sort of holy war.

I also caution anyone that would use religion or the Bible as a basis for how things should be in terms of governmental rights. I think the brilliance of our governmental system is that it is designed for their to be no overriding religious doctrine leading our legislation. I wholeheartedly believe that the two systems should remain separate. I, for one, do not want the federal, or state government telling me what I can and cannot do based on any sort of religious grounds. It might be one thing if we were a homogeneous religious society, but even among Christians, there are vastly different beliefs. Factor in that this nation has a wide array of belief systems, and it really is not fair to proclaim that one is superior to the other, and therefore is more valid in the eyes of the law.

Whether or not you or the members of your congregation endorse the gay lifestyle should have no bearing on what gays are and are not allowed to do. People are people, and they should have equal treatment under the law. The government should not be in the business of telling people how to live their private lives. It goes well beyond gay rights. There have been laws in place restricting the rights of other groups, especially black Americans in the South. There have been laws outlawing interracial marriages, which basically tells people whom they can and cannot love.

I also find your argument based on the nuclear family being the "glue" of our society quite interesting, as if it is the gay lifestyle that is leading to their demise. Their are plenty of other social problems in this country that have led to that. I won't get into them, because that will open up a new can of worms and a myriad of other tangents for this discussion. It is confusing to me, though, that you claim others to be 'closed-minded' and 'indoctrinated' when you seem to be advocating a lifestyle where people are not allowed to think for themselves or are forced to mask their feelings in order to fit into some sort of morally driven society.

My question to you would be if, say, gay rights are to be rejected, then what do you propose that gay people do?

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Wow, I didn't realize this discussion was still going on.  Fieldmarshall, I'm sure people would respond to your points if you had points to make.  But all you're offering up are the same tired, irrational, fearful ramblings that grumpy old men have been making for centuries everytime society makes progress.  When women were given the right to vote, what were the counter arguments we heard?  When children were freed from having to work in mines, or when Irish Catholics were given citizenship, or when schools were racially integrated, what kind of counter argument did we usually hear?  'The foundations of society will crumble!'  'This goes against the will of God!' 'This will destroy America!' Guess what!  You aren't bringing anything new to the table.  You're a relic of the past, on this subject.  Why would anyone feel the need to respond in detail to you when simply letting you talk is the greatest advertisement for the side of social progress that there could possibly be?

 

I honestly don't know whether to laugh at you or feel bad for you.  On the one hand, it's hilarious to watch you try to bend over backwards to justify your obvious prejudice.  But, on the other hand, it's pretty sad seeing a guy that is otherwise quite intelligent, let his fear consume him to the point that he willfully wallows in his own ignorance instead of simply educating himself.  Your mentality is that of the classic schoolyard bully.  Folks like you spend so much time and energy abusing and holding down people who make you uncomfortable and challenge your narrow view of the world, but then when people stand up to you, you start whining and crying pathetically trying to claim that you're the real victims.  Children have an excuse for acting like children though.  I'm not sure what your excuse is. 

 

I'm sorry, but at this current point in our history, as a straight, caucasian, Christian male who lives a relatively financially comfortable life in The United States of America, you have no grounds to claim that you are oppressed on a large scale, and when you do it is an absolute selfish insult to all of those who are currently being oppressed and have been oppressed over the past thousand or so years, usually, mind you, by people who fit the exact same demographic description as you.  Now, I'm obviously not saying that there is anything whatsoever wrong with being any or all of those things.  All I'm saying is that if you are, you have an institutionalized advantage over those who aren't those things, and as a result, you cannot rightfully claim to be oppressed, ESPECIALLY while you are actively oppressing others.  I mean, really, how many advantages could one person have?  You've got it good!  How could you possibly complain?  What, you're upset because the decision making process is just now barely beginning to be something that is shared and not completely monopolized by your demographic?  You're upset that you have to 'press 1 for English' at the ATM, or that there is now a Menorah next to the Christmas decorations on a KMart in Milwaukee?  You're upset that you no longer have the "freedom" to discriminate against someone for their sexual orrientation, or that that coveted position of strawberry picker was taken by an immigrant?  Cry me a river!  Do you have any idea how ridiculous it looks to most to see people of relative priviledge complain about such petty things?  And you have the audacity to call people who are actually being oppressed, "whiners"? 

 

Listen, the jig is up.  We're all aware that your defense of your views on this particular matter are a charade.  They are a scam.  Your insistence that your true motivation is to fight political correctness is nothing more than a laughable attempt to add an aire of virtue to what is, when it is stripped down to the bare bones, nothing more than a frightened, disgruntled man trying to withhold rights from other human beings.  Your pitiful cries of supposed 'victimization by elites' is nothing more than an attempt to deflect the fact that you are the oppressor and just another excuse to delay having to admit that you're just scared.  And that's really the crux of the matter, isn't it?  Times are changing, and that terrifies you.  I just wish you could man up and admit that to yourself, because I have news for you.  People can see right through you, and you aren't fooling anyone.   And like I said before, it's okay to have things you struggle with personally.  We all do.  But when, in trying to cope with your personal demons, you project your own fears and shortcomings out onto other people, actively trying to hurt them just because you aren't able to deal with those demons and fears in a constructive manner, you become a very toxic individual.  Wrap yourself in the American flag and the Bible all you want.  Clearly, you're just lying to yourself.  You might have yourself convinced that you are some sort of noble holy warrior patriot, but God and George Washington have nothing to do with this.  Sorry, but you and you alone are to blame for the person you've become.   

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^When it comes to politics, I think the right wing feels so "persecuted" because they know they have lost the fight on anti-gay issues. I refuse to comment on marshall's comments again, but I do want to make a general point. Even Republicans have come around by and large, its just that they are afraid to face the demons of their primary voters. Just today there was an article about a major pro-gay Republican push to back gay marriage in the upcoming Supreme Court decision on California's law.

 

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/26/17102594-once-inconceivable-republican-leaders-sign-pro-gay-marriage-brief?lite

 

The truth is that Republicans are getting to where they cannot deny the issue any longer, and once they aren't facing the pressures of a tiny percentage of primary voters who would vote them out they too suddenly become pro-freedom and advocate gay equality.

 

Even Tennessee's governor, Bill Haslam, is a social moderate. He'll sign a bill just to stay in office and not be primaried, but as a leader of a corporation he oversaw huge expansions of equal benefits for gay couples. He was even anti-gun as mayor of Knoxville.

 

The truth is the right wing doesn't own anything, politicians just love power so much that they'll continue doing what they do until its pretty obvious they aren't going to lose when they accept equality.

 

When both Democrats and Republicans fully embrace gay equality, the fight will be over, and the primary battles will ultimately end on this issue. The only people espousing anti-gay rhetoric in the future will be fringe candidates like the Democrat that somehow won the US Senate candidacy in 2012. These people truly are relics of the past.

 

I want to underscore something as a gay male: Democrats aren't lock and step in line with gay equality. *The* most vocal anti-gay opponent of gay marriage here in New York State was Bronx Democrat Ruben Diaz. He wasn't from upstate like here in Buffalo, he was from NYC. All the stereotypes that New York City is 100% pro-gay is not true. The Republican state senate of NY allowed it to pass.

 

While I'm not Republican, my state senator Mark Grisanti supported gay marriage in a vote after running against it in the election of 2010 the year before. He caught flak, but it was the right thing to do.

 

With anti-gay Democrats like Ruben Diaz in NY or that crazy conspiracy theorist that ran for US Senate in Tennessee, the Democrats do have a lot of religious people. Its something I think people gloss over too frequently.

 

If you want to see NYC Democrat Ruben Diaz's anti-gay rant in the New York state senate debate over gay marriage before it passed here, here you go:

 

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  • 1 month later...

^The fact that any political group thinks the government even has a right to force teachers to tell parents of private confessions on sexual orientation is beyond the pale. Its no different than the Soviet Union on social politics if that's the case.

 

I don't think certain groups understand how radicalized they are, or how far to the right they've gotten. Since there isn't really an extreme left anymore the extreme right seems to have taken the cake for lunatic fringe positions.

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Amazing to me that so many who stand up for such outrageous restrictions are also often the same people who constantly wax poetic about 'freedom' and 'liberty'.  I guess the only real freedom they stand for is the freedom to be exactly like they are in every way.  Maybe they are hoping that if they repeat those words enough people won't notice what they're actually doing behind the scenes. 

 

Anyway, well done, Governor Haslem.  Thank you for acting with common sense in regards to these two bills.  I am beyond relieved that they are no more.

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Amazing to me that so many who stand up for such outrageous restrictions are also often the same people who constantly wax poetic about 'freedom' and 'liberty'.  I guess the only real freedom they stand for is the freedom to be exactly like they are in every way.  Maybe they are hoping that if they repeat those words enough people won't notice what they're actually doing behind the scenes. 

 

Anyway, well done, Governor Haslem.  Thank you for acting with common sense in regards to these two bills.  I am beyond relieved that they are no more.

 

 

Agreed completely. I think actions like this are what makes a lot of right wing conservatives hate Haslem.

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