Predictions for 2013

[joeDowntown]

I thought the request to fill in wetlands was a little odd myself...

 

Joe

 

It wasn't all that long ago that the legacy of Native American tribes stemmed from their life of harmony with nature and the appalling way in which they were driven from their lands by the white man and his pursuit of materialism.  Now we've got the Gun Lake tribe requesting to fill in wetlands in order to build a bigger casino complex.  Oh, but they'll pay extra for environmental credits to do so.  Kind of takes a nice big dump on that heritage doesn't it?

I don't think native american culture and unity with nature is a cultural stereotype?! 

 

Joe

 

Jeez, culturally stereotype much?

 

I still don't see the casino being turned into a resort hurting downtown that much. Because frankly, downtown's primary entertainment offering is bars. And people who want to go out to bars do not want to drive all the way to Wayland, unless they live in Bryon Center.

[GR8scott]

Jeez, culturally stereotype much?

 

I still don't see the casino being turned into a resort hurting downtown that much. Because frankly, downtown's primary entertainment offering is bars. And people who want to go out to bars do not want to drive all the way to Wayland, unless they live in Bryon Center.

I dont think it matters what your cultural heritage is when green is involved...as far as hurting downtown? not directly but if the casino/resort was located downtown it would bring a lot more people down there which would have demanded more hotels, restaurants, bars, shopping and entertainment options 

[Allison Slater]

It may hurt downtown in the "this is what we'd have if it were here instead" perspective but I don't think much more than that.

[GRDadof3]

I dont think it matters what your cultural heritage is when green is involved...as far as hurting downtown? not directly but if the casino/resort was located downtown it would bring a lot more people down there which would have demanded more hotels, restaurants, bars, shopping and entertainment options 

 

Exactly. The tribe that owns the Wayland casino is made up of business people. And not all native Americans are "in tune" with nature like it's portrayed in the movies.

 

I think you can actually fill in a wetland if you create another one on the property. The DEQ is not necessarily the "wetland nazi's" like they were 10 years ago.

 

I don't disagree with your hypothesis about a hotel downtown, but that wasn't what the anti-casino group was asserting. They specifically said it would hurt downtown. In fact, I don't think they wanted one in the area at all, downtown or otherwise.

[fotoman311]

Exactly. The tribe that owns the Wayland casino is made up of business people. And not all native Americans are "in tune" with nature like it's portrayed in the movies.

 

I think you can actually fill in a wetland if you create another one on the property. The DEQ is not necessarily the "wetland nazi's" like they were 10 years ago.

 

I don't disagree with your hypothesis about a hotel downtown, but that wasn't what the anti-casino group was asserting. They specifically said it would hurt downtown. In fact, I don't think they wanted one in the area at all, downtown or otherwise.

 

The issue is that in all likelihood the new "wetland" will not carry out the same ecological functions and benefits as the old one, particularly in service to the watershed where the old one is located.  But, since all these ecological benefits are externalized and not assigned with value of service they provide, their loss is not factored into the "cost/benefit" analysis of removing the wetland.

[RegalTDP]

Exactly. The tribe that owns the Wayland casino is made up of business people. And not all native Americans are "in tune" with nature like it's portrayed in the movies.

 

 

That cracks me up.  Who do people think is in charge of the casino, that guy with the canoe and the single tear running down his face? 

 

I don't disagree with your hypothesis about a hotel downtown, but that wasn't what the anti-casino group was asserting. They specifically said it would hurt downtown. In fact, I don't think they wanted one in the area at all, downtown or otherwise.

 

I agree, it wasn't really about concern for downtown.  It was a moral opposition, though they couldn't say that explicitly.  On the other hand, though I'm not morally opposed to a casino**, I also don't think it would add much to downtown.  I do think it might help DeVos Place bring in a couple more conventions per year, but not much else, least of all demand for new hotels.  It wouldn't singularly draw anyone from outside the area - GR's lame casino would be just like every other lame casino in all the other cities.  It'd be nice to have a new concert venue, but again, it wouldn't add much; I don't think downtown GR has a problem finding casino-grade acts like Rick Springfield or Gallagher.

 

When midwestern cities build casinos downtown, it just reeks of desperation.  More power to the Gun Lake Potawatomi and more power to Wayland.  I think GR can aim higher.

 

**It's true that I opposed this stupid proposal, but that was because it was a obvious ploy for tax credits at the expense of a perfectly viable old building. 

[GRDadof3]

That cracks me up.  Who do people think is in charge of the casino, that guy with the canoe and the single tear running down his face? 

 

 

I agree, it wasn't really about concern for downtown.  It was a moral opposition, though they couldn't say that explicitly.  On the other hand, though I'm not morally opposed to a casino**, I also don't think it would add much to downtown.  I do think it might help DeVos Place bring in a couple more conventions per year, but not much else, least of all demand for new hotels.  It wouldn't singularly draw anyone from outside the area - GR's lame casino would be just like every other lame casino in all the other cities.  It'd be nice to have a new concert venue, but again, it wouldn't add much; I don't think downtown GR has a problem finding casino-grade acts like Rick Springfield or Gallagher.

 

When midwestern cities build casinos downtown, it just reeks of desperation.  More power to the Gun Lake Potawatomi and more power to Wayland.  I think GR can aim higher.

 

**It's true that I opposed this stupid proposal, but that was because it was a obvious ploy for tax credits at the expense of a perfectly viable old building. 

 

Agreed, I'm not morally opposed to a casino, and not against one downtown at all. If if can be built using the same business model as other businesses downtown (fair playing field), and doesn't knock down a perfectly fine existing building or clear blocks for surface parking, let er rip. Should the city make it a "city" project? Nah.

 

I also remember that the tribe banned businesses that belonged to the Grand Rapids Chamber from bidding on the construction work. THAT hurt local businesses. Everyone give each other a big pat on the back for that one.

[joeDowntown]

...yet almost every Indian Casino has some really crazy, over the top "Call of the Wild" theme. I'm not saying they aren't in it all for the $$$, you'd just think that maybe they be a bit eco-friendly. I honestly don't care, it just seemed a little ironic.

 

Joe

 

Exactly. The tribe that owns the Wayland casino is made up of business people. And not all native Americans are "in tune" with nature like it's portrayed in the movies.

 

 

[Allison Slater]

They know their stereotype and they're businessmen.  Marketing gimmick.

[Jippy]

Remember when we used this forum to make predictions about Grand Rapids in 2013? Now we get wonderfully pedestrian conversations regarding a casino in Wayland and its owners. 

[GRDadof3]

Remember when we used this forum to make predictions about Grand Rapids in 2013? Now we get wonderfully pedestrian conversations regarding a casino in Wayland and its owners. 

 

Predictions only come once a year. Apparently snark is a year-round phenom.

[Jippy]

Predictions only come once a year. Apparently snark is a year-round phenom.

 

Indeed it is. Indeed it is. :-)

[grandrollerz]

It makes me sort of nostalgic for the forum policing of days of old.  This is the last board I visit and I appreciate the continuity and the community.

 

Back on point....

 

I predict we'll be making improvements to the flood wall along Market/the waste water treatment plant.  :-)

[GRDadof3]

Indeed it is. Indeed it is. :-)

 

Ha!    (Notes to self.)

It makes me sort of nostalgic for the forum policing of days of old.  This is the last board I visit and I appreciate the continuity and the community.

 

Back on point....

 

I predict we'll be making improvements to the flood wall along Market/the waste water treatment plant.  :-)

 

Agreed. Specifically by that creek that runs alongside it (Buck Creek?) That looked to be getting precariously close to overflowing before they piled sand along it.

 

Correction, I think that's Plaster Creek.

[Allison Slater]

As well as possible reinforcement of the flood walls in the Plaza Towers building and especially the Forslund.  I can't imagine residents are pleased with the idea of pumping water into their basement to keep one side of the building from collapsing.

[joeDowntown]

I wonder what (if any) impact the recent flooding (or as the Mlive headline just described it "Area still UNDER SIEGE by record flooding") will have on future plans. IE., the Rapids, GVSU's plans for the riverfront in front of their new building, etc. Does it change plans? Does it change the scope of projects?

 

I have no idea how dams control (or don't control) flooding. Just a random thought I had.

 

Joe 

[RegalTDP]

I declare this prediction fulfilled.  If Trader Joe's had plans for this year, they would have announced by now.

 

 

-Trader Joe's will not enter the GR market, but a clothing retailer like H&M or Urban Outfitters will.

 

Yes, I know I'm brand-obsessed and shallow.   Still, it's good for GR (better late than never in H&M's case).  

[GRDadof3]

I declare this prediction fulfilled.  If Trader Joe's had plans for this year, they would have announced by now.

 

 

Yes, I know I'm brand-obsessed and shallow.   Still, it's good for GR (better late than never in H&M's case).  

 

The same source for the Press about the H&M store is the same source for the Trader Joe's story. Just sayin.

[jas49503]

I"m not sure why anyone cares that H&M is opening a store.  the few times I've been in there I've felt like I wandered into the clothes section at target.  my wife described their clothes as  "cheap" (not to mean inexpensive.)  I guess that it's good that a national retailer decided that grand rapids was worth opening a store in but loads of national retailers along the lines of H&M have already opened stores in GR.  

[GRDadof3]

I"m not sure why anyone cares that H&M is opening a store.  the few times I've been in there I've felt like I wandered into the clothes section at target.  my wife described their clothes as  "cheap" (not to mean inexpensive.)  I guess that it's good that a national retailer decided that grand rapids was worth opening a store in but loads of national retailers along the lines of H&M have already opened stores in GR.  

 

I'm not sure what the appeal is either. But I don't think I'm their target demographic.

[OneSweetWorld]

I would imagine I'm pretty close to their target demo - recent college grad, modest income, stylish. I occasionally (once or twice a year) shop at H&M in Chicago when I'm there visiting. They have quite a loyal following; consider them young adult version of Urban Outiftters. However, since they don't offer an online catalog (you can view clothing and prices, but cannot purchase) you have to visit a brick-and-morter. For young Grand Rapidians, it eliminates the necessity of visiting a different city and provides a few college kids some OK jobs.

 

Not to mention, it makes us look better. I recall a couple of years ago during Holland's push for an anti-discriminatory housing ordinance towards gays when Heartwell stated that GR's anti-discriminatory ordinance is mostly a "marketing statement" --- an attempt to make GR look progressive and attract young talent. The same could be said about retail options. The more we have, the higher we score on a young college grad's Potential Cities to Move to list.

 

Too bad our H&M will be in the suburbs, but I guess we'll take the good with the ok.

[GRDadof3]

I would imagine I'm pretty close to their target demo - recent college grad, modest income, stylish. I occasionally (once or twice a year) shop at H&M in Chicago when I'm there visiting. They have quite a loyal following; consider them young adult version of Urban Outiftters. However, since they don't offer an online catalog (you can view clothing and prices, but cannot purchase) you have to visit a brick-and-morter. For young Grand Rapidians, it eliminates the necessity of visiting a different city and provides a few college kids some OK jobs.

 

Not to mention, it makes us look better. I recall a couple of years ago during Holland's push for an anti-discriminatory housing ordinance towards gays when Heartwell stated that GR's anti-discriminatory ordinance is mostly a "marketing statement" --- an attempt to make GR look progressive and attract young talent. The same could be said about retail options. The more we have, the higher we score on a young college grad's Potential Cities to Move to list.

 

Too bad our H&M will be in the suburbs, but I guess we'll take the good with the ok.

 

You're comparing civil rights for the LGBT community to being able to buy a pair of jeans?

[jas49503]

I would imagine I'm pretty close to their target demo - recent college grad, modest income, stylish. I occasionally (once or twice a year) shop at H&M in Chicago when I'm there visiting. They have quite a loyal following; consider them young adult version of Urban Outiftters. However, since they don't offer an online catalog (you can view clothing and prices, but cannot purchase) you have to visit a brick-and-morter. For young Grand Rapidians, it eliminates the necessity of visiting a different city and provides a few college kids some OK jobs.

 

Not to mention, it makes us look better. I recall a couple of years ago during Holland's push for an anti-discriminatory housing ordinance towards gays when Heartwell stated that GR's anti-discriminatory ordinance is mostly a "marketing statement" --- an attempt to make GR look progressive and attract young talent. The same could be said about retail options. The more we have, the higher we score on a young college grad's Potential Cities to Move to list.

 

Too bad our H&M will be in the suburbs, but I guess we'll take the good with the ok.

I must be getting old. I though that urban outfitters was for young adults.

[Allison Slater]

Maybe is/was, I don't stay up to date on fashion trends, because, as is probably being demonstrated here, they tend to change with the seasons.

[OneSweetWorld]

You're comparing civil rights for the LGBT community to being able to buy a pair of jeans?

 

In the context of making a city appear "cool" enough to attract young talent (and only in that context), yes.