Bank of America Stadium Renovation

[kermit]

and you are squarely in the minority...

 

He is certainly not in the minority based on this CBJ poll (70% against)

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/poll/poll/10720792?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2013-01-16

[HopHead]

If this losing franchise left for LA, Charlotte could have a MLS team instead, maybe mostly reuse the stadium.

 

Zzzz... I'd rather pay the money to keep the Panthers if that were the option.

 

 

He is certainly not in the minority based on this CBJ poll (70% against)

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/poll/poll/10720792?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2013-01-16

 

 

 

Of 280 people? Come on. Also, find me a poll where a majority of people actually want their taxes raised for anything. That would be like finding a needle in a haystack.

 

I'd rather not see any tax raised for the renovations either, but that's not reality of today's sports world. Using money invested by the city can help ensure the franchise stays here for the long term. After Richardson passes, he has mandated that the franchise be sold within two years. Investing in the stadium 1) makes it attractive to a prospective owner and 2) gives more leverage to keeping the team here. 

[southslider]

Raising taxes is one thing, but doing so on all restaurant sales across the entire city for one stadium makes as much sense as raising taxes on all property across the entire city for a tiny streetcar line.

[15895]

It would be interesting to know what that extra tax money will be used for. Hmmm... There HAS to be something they have in mind or they wouldn't of raised it so high...

[Missmylab4]

1,000 room hotel to aid in landing the Super Bowl. Goodell said 200 million in renovations plus more hotel rooms and we could host one.

[HopHead]

It would be interesting to know what that extra tax money will be used for. Hmmm... There HAS to be something they have in mind or they wouldn't of raised it so high...

 

I believe it would be some things that may not make it into the mayor's capital improvement budget. I thought I recalled hearing Bojangles Coliseum and Ovens Auditorium being possible candidates as recipients of the extra money. Also, the 1,000 room convention center hotel is another possibility. Hotels that size normally don't come along with out some subsidy. 

[jednc]

He is certainly not in the minority based on this CBJ poll (70% against)

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/poll/poll/10720792?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2013-01-16

This survey is not a scientific sampling, but offers a quick view of what readers are thinking

 

And just to prove my point, I voted twice. There were 500 votes in that poll...about 165 were in favor and 35 not sure. The city council sure seem to agree with me...I think that vote was 7-2. At any rate...let's just wait and see how it turns out.

If this losing franchise left for LA, Charlotte could have a MLS team instead, maybe mostly reuse the stadium.

First, someone would have to buy the stadium. It is owned by the Richardsons. Which MLS Team would have $500 Million or so to buy the place?

[kermit]

CBJ reports a few more details on the deal this afternoon.

Public money would get a 10 year comittment from the Panthers. The city's $125 million would take 15 years to pay back.

The Patherns are asking for an additional $62.5 million from the state -- Thom Tills says he can't send state money to the team or stadium but the state could pay for infrastructure (what would that be?). Tillis sounds like he wants to find the money in Raleigh. The team will also chip in $62.5 million.

The new tax would require general assembly approval.

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2013/01/carolina-panthers-negotiations-stadium.html?ana=e_du_pub&s=article_du&ed=2013-01-18&page=all

[Urbanity]

CBJ also reporting that the NC restaurant Association has come out against the tax.  

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2013/01/nc-restaurant-group-opposes-tax-plan.html

[navigator319]

CBJ also reporting that the NC restaurant Association has come out against the tax.  

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2013/01/nc-restaurant-group-opposes-tax-plan.html

 

Id pay no attention to them they are just going off the fact it 1% more.  More accurate and interesting to see is what the restaurant owners in specifically Uptown feel as they are the one impacted by the 1. the tax and 2. the Panthers.  One more subdivision I would make is expand the survey to city/county restaurants.  Just seeing the breakdown of the data is what is important.

 

I support this personally, but if the restaurant owners of the city didn't I would have to think harder about it.  I do not care though about the opinion of restaurant owners in Greensboro lets say, as it relates to this anyway

[Urbanity]

I feel like I have to be overly apologetic or qualified with every statement on this subject that  I make because I am afraid my point is misunderstood - but understanding that I support the Panthers getting the $125 million and feel it's going to happen,   I just really wish there was less glossing over some of the reality of the problems of the situation right now.

It is not a minority of people who are upset about the way the negotiation for this funding came about and the NC Restaurant group is not some marginal group that can be disregarded.  

 

Whether or not the funding mechanism is going to go through (and though likely I wouldn't say it's a slam dunk) the reality that this was handled poorly and teh effects of that should be understood or at least acknowledged.    

 

At a time when the city can't pass the CIP, still under the shadow of the NASCAR HOF funding/attendance issues, just allowed money for the Knights (small amounts, but stay with me) and has a mayor pushing a streetcar (and don't get me started on the Belk Cap) while we have a state government solely under Republican control who have clearly stated they want taxes down and are not going to be interested in new funding requests  -  there are going to be negative reverberations that are going to affect funding decisions for a while.  The Panther's funding and the way it was handled is just adding more fuel to what I think is becoming a perfect storm of anti-growth/funding for Charlotte in the near future.

[southslider]

I attend various community meetings intended to focus on planning. These days, the meetings are huge venting sessions by citizens feeling their local government ignores themselves. Many of the recent actions by this Council aren't helping.

[jednc]

I attend various community meetings intended to focus on planning. These days, the meetings are huge venting sessions by citizens feeling their local government ignores themselves. Many of the recent actions by this Council aren't helping.

Then these people should consider voting those politicians out of office and voting for someone who is more in line with their own personal wishes. Better yet, they should run themselves and make the changes they wish to see...assuming they can get elected. I wholeheartedly support the idea that politicians serve at the pleasure of the citizenry, and should be removed when ineffective. Unfortunately, too many voters are one issue voters or party voters and will not bother to become informed about the issues or where candidates stand.

 

Also...the people of Charlotte elected their council to make decisions for them. I'm really not sure what the expectation is when the council is trying to decide on issues. We don't live in a democracy, but a republic. The public had their say in November...and will have their say again in the next election. What happens in the mean time is the prerogative of the elected officials. Every issue is not up for public vote and ranting and raving about them is ridiculous.

[Urbanity]

^^^ That's all swell and great but what does that have to do with the discussion at hand?

 

As far as I know it's about the BoA renovations including current public response to the way the funding was proposed.  There's been a lot of poo-pooing (yes, I said that   ) of concerns raised about the money and the manner it was proposed and some backlash against the city and Panthers.  

 

People aren't getting upset specifically over their elected reps, but over the aggregate actions (or perceptions of those actions) of the last few years (regardless of who is in office) that the city's fiscal books/spending priorities are a little out of whack.

 

The Panther's proposal just happen to come along at what may be the sort of zenith of that mood and may suffer from it, or cause some other projects to suffer from it if it succeeds.

[jednc]

I would hope that everyone's comments were welcome without trying to play the "what does that have to do with the topic at hand" card. My comment has everything to do with the current discussion about the stadium upgrades. If you're not sure how it relates, let me spell it out.

 

The city council was elected to make this type decision...like it or not. People can grouse on this board, or in the comments section of the Observer all they want to. The bottom line is, the council will make the decision they think is correct because they were given that job. I for one couldn't be happier with the direction they are going. Clear? If not, that's the best I can articulate my argument.

[Urbanity]

Id pay no attention to them they are just going off the fact it 1% more.  More accurate and interesting to see is what the restaurant owners in specifically Uptown feel as they are the one impacted by the 1. the tax and 2. the Panthers.  One more subdivision I would make is expand the survey to city/county restaurants.  Just seeing the breakdown of the data is what is important.

 

I support this personally, but if the restaurant owners of the city didn't I would have to think harder about it.  I do not care though about the opinion of restaurant owners in Greensboro lets say, as it relates to this anyway

 

"Tom Sasser, the chairman of the Charlotte chapter of the N.C. Restaurant and Lodging Association, also said the city’s financial help for the Carolina Panthers shouldn’t “solely rely on the restaurant industry and our patrons.”

Read more here: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/01/23/3807919/local-restaurant-group-explore.html#storylink=cpy

 

It looks like they support the use of the Convention Center Funds which would cover it for the most part instead of the tax increase levied on restaurants   Something  I am in favor of as well.

[navigator319]

Yup I read that too last night.  The way the chapter though put it was much less confrontational and supportive of finding a way to do this.

 

I learned something new too and it mentions the general sales tax *could* be going up by the State.  So how about if they split the difference lower the proposed meals tax increase to .5% and lets get creative to find the rest.

[Urbanity]

^ How about no new tax and they use the convention center fund which will cover the majority of the cost.

[15895]

^ How about no new tax and they use the convention center fund which will cover the majority of the cost.

Because they might have a plan for the convention money. I say raise the tax and ignore the "outrage" because most people don't know and won't remember. That and we have other things (Streetcar & CIP & hotel) we have to fund to.

[navigator319]

I think there is something to be said about needing that fund for the convention center and related activities such as upgrades, repairs and yes even incentives to bring some here along with the hotel that keeps popping up in some conversations.

 

Not to say that depending on the numbers in that fund some cant be used, just would not want to take away and obliterate it all on the stadium.

[49er]

For those of us that have been hear long term, the convention center just seems to be this bottomless pit that can never be fulfilled. We replaced a completely obsolete venue but learned soon after that we needed a hotel. So we built a 700 room hotel and that wasn't enough. Then we funded the hall of fame with the ballroom addition to help the center. Now we're talking building another 1,000 room hotel and further convention center expansion. The truth of the matter is that conventions aren't as plentiful as they used to be and every mid tier and major city in the country has invested huge amounts of cash into convention center construction so competition is fierce. In terms of bang for our buck, using that money to retain the Panthers may be a more sound financial investment. 

[15895]

For those of us that have been hear long term, the convention center just seems to be this bottomless pit that can never be fulfilled. We replaced a completely obsolete venue but learned soon after that we needed a hotel. So we built a 700 room hotel and that wasn't enough. Then we funded the hall of fame with the ballroom addition to help the center. Now we're talking building another 1,000 room hotel and further convention center expansion. The truth of the matter is that conventions aren't as plentiful as they used to be and every mid tier and major city in the country has invested huge amounts of cash into convention center construction so competition is fierce. In terms of bang for our buck, using that money to retain the Panthers may be a more sound financial investment.

Arent the Republicans at the Hall of Fame with their meeting? McCrory and Foxx opened up their 3 day meeting talking about Charlotte in the HOF.

And didn't McCrory base his campaign HQ at the Westin? And lots of events take place in the ball room at the Westin.

The Auto show is coming to the Convention Center, we're eyeballing the RNC.

Look at the DNC's only complaint to an otherwise great convention; hotels. And it wasn't a small complaint neither....

Let's just raise taxes on the prepared food/beverage industry. The renovation IS going to happen. I'm dieing to know what improvements will be made

[ah59396]

The answer to every question shouldn't be "let's just raise taxes".  I agree with 49er, the Convention Center is already "paved in pork" so to speak.

 

Why does a 1000 room hotel require government subsidy anyways???  Because there isn't enough demand for a private developer to build it?  

 

We have a 700 room Westin already, we honestly just need a couple more mid-level hotels in and around uptown and we can hold any convention, like the RNC or the Superbowl.  It's a nice thought, but it's not a necessity for the city to prosper economically.

 

 

Use the surplus convention money for the renovation and keep taxes low.

[navigator319]

1/2 of 1% on a $150 dinner out is 75 cents and on my $8.50 lunch today it would be 4 cents.  Add up my lunches all year and we are at $4.25

 

How much lower can you get to keep the Panthers in town 

[ah59396]

I don't disagree that it's a small number.  But we aren't paying just that one tax.  If we were, no one would care.  These taxes do effect people and businesses, regardless of cost.  Simply ignoring that fact every time we need a new toy in uptown and tacking on another 1/2 1% tax will only further cause problems in the future.

 

We've got taxes on every possible thing in Charlotte at this point and now we just keep adding to them anytime we want something new.  I live in Charlotte, I pay the taxes, I use the services and I can afford it.  I don't mind.  Not everyone is so lucky.  I just wish we were more cognizant of that fact when we are so cavalier about saying "oh whatever, it's just another $4".

 

Taxes serve a purpose, we live in a large city and it's necessary both for services we require and for economic bolstering.  I'm no fool to that fact.  But if we already have this money sitting somewhere, and it's primary purpose is to support the CRVA, it needs to be used for a project that will directly impact the Charlotte economy, go towards something that brings in tourism dollars (the Panthers staying in Charlotte) and will especially assist in developing the economy in Uptown.

 

I'm also extremely not in favor of pulling some "smoke and mirror" routine on the taxpayers and using this money towards funding other items  (Streetcar, capital funding projects, ect.) regardless of whether I support them or not.