Bank of America Stadium Renovation

[navigator319]

Well we can agree on the last part you mention no way should it be used for the capital projects or street car or anything like that as that really would be a smoke and mirror.

 

I'd just say these decisions aren't done in a vacuum right?  The CRVA money must have a plan around it, no?  If not they need to produce one and say what it is/will be used for.  At that time I think an economic benefit conversation/debate can be had to weigh the merits of where the money is best spent for maximum benefit.

[ah59396]

^Well my faith in our local government is lacking, to say the least.  Especially in regards to the CRVA.

 

I mean, they won't even release reports on spending...

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2013/01/07/3771159/crva-report-doesnt-deal-in-details.html

 

I know many of you have seen that, but it's one of many articles that point to it.

 

Anyways, I've gone way off topic.  CRVA money should pay for Panthers renovations, at least part of it.  I'll leave it at that.

[Urbanity]

I'm on the same mind on the subject as ah59396.  

 

I don't think a case has been made to raise any taxes for the Panthers renovations particularly in light of the CRVA Convention center fund being able to cover this for the most part.  

 

If it comes down to priorities I think we should be realistic.

 

I have a hard time saying that 110m or so that is available in the Convention Center Fund should go for a possible 1,000 room hotel (with no name attached or specific plans) that may/may not happen at some point down the road when we have an immediate request for the money towards Panther's stadium renovations.

 

And as far as good for business - raising the tax rate for restaurants is not good tourism business. 

[carolinagarnet]

Why does a 1000 room hotel require government subsidy anyways???  Because there isn't enough demand for a private developer to build it? 

 

Bingo. Unless Charlotte is going to attach certain conditions to the hotel (i.e. underground tunnel to the convention center, capped rates for certain events, undesirable location) then it has no business paying Hilton, Marriott, Starwoods or whatever company ends up building a new hotel Uptown. This is just fleecing the taxpayers, regardless of whether the money is generated by locals or not. While it is certainly controversial, there is an argument for locals paying for stadium upgrades. I cannot understand why the city would need subsidize what should be a highly profitable hotel.

[ssh214]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8892985/joe-flacco-baltimore-ravens-rips-plan-play-2014-super-bowl-nj

 

Interesting take on the Super Bowl being played in NYC next year. Even though its New York players are complaining about it because it doesn't have a dome. Imagine how people would react to it being played in Charlotte without a dome...

[15895]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2012/story/_/id/8892985/joe-flacco-baltimore-ravens-rips-plan-play-2014-super-bowl-nj

Interesting take on the Super Bowl being played in NYC next year. Even though its New York players are complaining about it because it doesn't have a dome. Imagine how people would react to it being played in Charlotte without a dome...

Weather maybe?

I would bet most NFL fans rather be at BOA stadium than NYC. Among NYC being harder to navigate than Charlotte. Charlotte had enough amenities IE Carowinds, White water center, NASCAR for super bowl fans. I doubt most people going to the Super Bowl wants "culture"

[navigator319]

First AP story I have seen on this...

 

Not really anything new mentioned.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/panthers-seek-help-stadium-improvements-153304121.html

[Urbanity]

Weather maybe?

I would bet most NFL fans rather be at BOA stadium than NYC. Among NYC being harder to navigate than Charlotte. Charlotte had enough amenities IE Carowinds, White water center, NASCAR for super bowl fans. I doubt most people going to the Super Bowl wants "culture"

Let's be accurate here.  

 

I would bet that most NFL fans would rather be in Charlotte over the Meadowlands, NJ which is where the Superbowl will be.  I highly doubt most fans though would rather be in Charlotte over NYC - and it has nothing to do with "culture".

[15895]

Let's be accurate here.

I would bet that most NFL fans would rather be in Charlotte over the Meadowlands, NJ which is where the Superbowl will be. I highly doubt most fans though would rather be in Charlotte over NYC - and it has nothing to do with "culture".

My point exactly; it has nothing to do "culture". For all that NYC has that we don't - I don't think the average NFL fan would necessarily care too much. I love seeing big cities and junk. I rather be in NYC. I shouldn't have said "most" but seeing as there will be a Super Bowl every year... I think Charlotte will draw huge crowds who'd be just fine being in CLT with our NASCAR, White water Center, etc. just as NYC will draw huge crowds because it's NYC. (keeping in mind people are primarily their for football)

I'm just saying us not having a dome might not be as critical as any northern stadium not having a done and that Charlotte would be a great host city despite not having everything NYC does

There doesn't have to be a best place for a super bowl. It happens every year.

[Urbanity]

My point exactly; it has nothing to do "culture". For all that NYC has that we don't - I don't think the average NFL fan would necessarily care too much.

We just disagree,  There's a reason NYC is one of the world's top tourist destination from Singapore banker to Midwest farmer, and I can't take serious any argument that people would rather visit Charlotte over New York.  It's just laughable.

[ah59396]

I'm a huge NFL fan.  I'd much rather be in NYC than say, Indianapolis, Cleveland or Charlotte for a short vacation.

[15895]

I'm a huge NFL fan. I'd much rather be in NYC than say, Indianapolis, Cleveland or Charlotte for a short vacation.

I think everyone on this board would

[15895]

We just disagree, There's a reason NYC is one of the world's top tourist destination from Singapore banker to Midwest farmer, and I can't take serious any argument that people would rather visit Charlotte over New York. It's just laughable.

So let's never shoot for the super bowl. Better yet; have it in NYC every single year. It's a win win situation from the Singapore banker to the Midwest farmer

[ah59396]

^ Well now you're just being dramatic.  I got the point he was trying to make.  Doesn't mean we can't host a Superbowl.  I mean...Jacksonville did.

[MAJIKMAN]

Well I used to live there (in Charlotte) a while ago and still go back every now and then to visit friends. But I do have to say that for an event like that where you can have that kind of crowd. Number of people mind you. You really do have to have your sh@t together. Yeah having all these things, IE Carowinds, White water center, and NASCAR will only get you so far. With most of these mainly being warm weather activities you have to have other things to do. After being there a few hours you can find yourself kind of bored. Not in the span of 2 or 3 days , but hours. And I used to live there. Think of folk who are strangers in town. I'm not saying that Charlotte couldn't do it. Hell Indy did last year in the middle of winter. But there had to be something else going on other there than the new stadium and indy car for the NFL to have the Super Bowl there. Charlotte is capable. Its just not there yet. Just look back a few months ago. Back during the DNC where reporters and maybe the everyday guy could not find a decent hotel rooms. Being honest that was a small event compared to a Super Bowl. Thats what I think.

[Niner National]

Well I used to live there (in Charlotte) a while ago and still go back every now and then to visit friends. But I do have to say that for an event like that where you can have that kind of crowd. Number of people mind you. You really do have to have your sh@t together. Yeah having all these things, IE Carowinds, White water center, and NASCAR will only get you so far. With most of these mainly being warm weather activities you have to have other things to do. After being there a few hours you can find yourself kind of bored. Not in the span of 2 or 3 days , but hours. And I used to live there. Think of folk who are strangers in town. I'm not saying that Charlotte couldn't do it. Hell Indy did last year in the middle of winter. But there had to be something else going on other there than the new stadium and indy car for the NFL to have the Super Bowl there. Charlotte is capable. Its just not there yet. Just look back a few months ago. Back during the DNC where reporters and maybe the everyday guy could not find a decent hotel rooms. Being honest that was a small event compared to a Super Bowl. Thats what I think.

I think you can get bored in 90% of cities in the winter in a matter of hours. 

 

The DNC was a week long event with tv networks and news reporters from all over the world. Not to mention the hundreds of parties, conventions, and fundraisers that all occurred over that span of time.

 

There is no way the DNC is a 'small event' compared to a Super Bowl.

 

Indianapolis is a lot like Charlotte. If they can pull it off successfully, Charlotte can as well. 

 

Let's be real, most people going to the Superbowl aren't really looking to spend days doing cultural things. They want nice places to eat and fun places to drink and party.

 

The only thing we are really lacking is quality hotel space. We probably have enough hotel space, but not enough good hotel space.

[Urbanity]

LORD - DEE

 

This thread has gotten off track.  For the record I never argued against Charlotte being able to host a Super Bowl (in fact in another thread a long time a go I argued for it).  I simply took humorous and sarcastic issue with the idea that NFL fans would prefer Charlotte over NY for two reasons.  

1. It's a bunch of caca (that's my word for the day  ) and btw I was making fun of the whole "culture" thing because its a strawman argument
2. "NYC" isn't hosting the Super Bowl.  The Meadowlands, NJ is technically hosting the Superbowl.

[nowensone]

Well I used to live there (in Charlotte) a while ago and still go back every now and then to visit friends. But I do have to say that for an event like that where you can have that kind of crowd. Number of people mind you. You really do have to have your sh@t together. Yeah having all these things, IE Carowinds, White water center, and NASCAR will only get you so far. With most of these mainly being warm weather activities you have to have other things to do. After being there a few hours you can find yourself kind of bored. Not in the span of 2 or 3 days , but hours. And I used to live there. Think of folk who are strangers in town. I'm not saying that Charlotte couldn't do it. Hell Indy did last year in the middle of winter. But there had to be something else going on other there than the new stadium and indy car for the NFL to have the Super Bowl there. Charlotte is capable. Its just not there yet. Just look back a few months ago. Back during the DNC where reporters and maybe the everyday guy could not find a decent hotel rooms. Being honest that was a small event compared to a Super Bowl. Thats what I think.

 

I love football, and consider myself cultured as well.  There is plenty to do here for both types of people.  Dining out/grabbing brews, many many great places.  Museums, shows, art, parks, all here.  And the inner ring neighborhoods are a blast to walk, that never gets tiring.  Some of the things we have are more recent additions, granted, but moot, they are here now.  Many days worth IMHO for Super Bowl visitors.  And without ever going to Carrowinds, the WW center or NASCAR museum, which frankly, I think many would skip anyway.

 

There would be stress on the metro to house the number of visitors, I think the DNC occupied 85% of area hotel capacity, however it just means people would stay farther out, which is possible here because there are other cities relatively close-by.  Indianapolis in contrast has significantly less outside of it's CSA, which is also smaller than ours.

 

Which leads me to the economic impact of the Super Bowl to Indianapolis, and why I think based on that alone we should pay for the BoA renovations: http://www.indystar.com/assets/pdf/BG192278719.PDF  Reference page 5.  I know the question remains on how to fund it, how much is the CVRA "sitting on"?

[nowensone]

I thought so too, turns out the Super Bowl dwarfs it, 35,000 for the DNC versus 265,000 for Indy's Super Bowl.

There is no way the DNC is a 'small event' compared to a Super Bowl.

[MAJIKMAN]

Which leads me to the economic impact of the Super Bowl to Indianapolis, and why I think based on that alone we should pay for the BoA renovations: http://www.indystar....BG192278719.PDF Reference page 5. I know the question remains on how to fund it, how much is the CVRA "sitting on"?

 

 

Hey I agree with you on this. In fact I don't just agree for this reason. Look Charlotte is becoming one of those places alot of events want to come to. There are other events like football, concerts, and once again look at the DNC. Those could be the tip of the iceberg. There should be improvements done to the structure to make the stadium a value added commodity to that community.

[CarolinaCrown]

I don't understand how the WW center and Carowinds can even be thought of when it comes to entertaining superbowl guests.  Carowinds doesn't open weekend operations until the end of March, and who wants to get wet in February?  I'm all for the city hosting the superbowl though and think it would go over just fine, If and Indy can why can't we?

[nowensone]

Good point on those two, didn't even occur to me they are not open/or appropriate winter venues, but that is because of low personal interest.    I am really intrigued by the Indy comparison, I see nothing to indicate we could not at least match it's regional stats, and viability for a Super Bowl, and it seems we should have more of everything in that regard.  We're certainly not the Northeast in terms of density, but compared to most of the country we are dense from a regional perspective.  I've traveled Indiana many times, once outside of Indianapolis there is little other than fields for long distances.  I guess the 4 year old domed (retractable) stadium is nothing to discount though.

[15895]

Besides the super bowl. It seems like Patricia is also holding the panthers renovations over our heads also.

Who knows if the state will even approve raising our taxes.

[nowensone]

Apologies if beating a dead horse, but the state tax revenues were over 20 million, locally about the same, for a single game.  Doesn't mean we'll net a Super Bowl, nor that those numbers cover the amount of money being asked for, but when coupled with the other numbers (eg GDP numbers), I think there is a solid argument here.  I recognize my own simplistic and largely uninformed stance on this, if this hasn't been pitched, then what are the counter-arguments?

[jednc]

Apologies if beating a dead horse, but the state tax revenues were over 20 million, locally about the same, for a single game.  Doesn't mean we'll net a Super Bowl, nor that those numbers cover the amount of money being asked for, but when coupled with the other numbers (eg GDP numbers), I think there is a solid argument here.  I recognize my own simplistic and largely uninformed stance on this, if this hasn't been pitched, then what are the counter-arguments?

I don't understand what you're asking/proposing. Could you explain?