Legacy Union (former Charlotte Observer redevelopment)

[TheOneRJ]

Something like City Creek Center in Salt Lake City would work well in Uptown. With the long sought after Saks Fifth Avenue store as an anchor. 

On 2/3/2019 at 1:25 PM, Dale said:

Among peer cities, look no farther than Nashville. It is killing Charlotte in planned and u/c retail. Granted, Nashville has a buzz Charlotte will likely never acquire. My point is that “What, compared to Dallas ?” doesn’t fly.

What is Nashville’s “buzz”? Charlotte has more annual tourists than Nashville on top of a higher CBD population and income. 

[Guest]

Something like City Creek Center in Salt Lake City would work well in Uptown. With the long sought after Saks Fifth Avenue store as an anchor. 

What is Nashville’s “buzz”? Charlotte has more annual tourists than Nashville on top of a higher CBD population and income. 

City Creek works in Salt Lake for one reason. It functions as the City’s SouthPark, essentially. Its basically SLC’s only robust shopping experience within the city limits.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Something like City Creek Center in Salt Lake City would work well in Uptown. With the long sought after Saks Fifth Avenue store as an anchor. 

What is Nashville’s “buzz”? Charlotte has more annual tourists than Nashville on top of a higher CBD population and income. 

 

There’s a huge difference in the kinds of tourism both cities get. And whatever methodology Charlotte uses to suggest it gets literally twice the amount of visitors per year as Nashville seems inherently flawed.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Desert Power]

19 minutes ago, TheOneRJ said:

Something like City Creek Center in Salt Lake City would work well in Uptown. With the long sought after Saks Fifth Avenue store as an anchor. 

What is Nashville’s “buzz”? Charlotte has more annual tourists than Nashville on top of a higher CBD population and income. 

Something like that could work, but it benefits from being right smack in the middle of downtown.  How many parcels like that are left in the middle of the business districts and attractions?  That is why missing out on something retail based for Legacy Union hurts...

[15895]

10 minutes ago, Desert Power said:

Something like that could work, but it benefits from being right smack in the middle of downtown.  How many parcels like that are left in the middle of the business districts and attractions?  That is why missing out on something retail based for Legacy Union hurts...

New Duke Tower land, Gateway Station, levineland. All hope is not lost. Gateway station has the benefit of public dollars. What a fabulous place for a retail center.

Edited February 5, 2019 by AirNostrumMAD

[LKN704]

1 hour ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

 

I heard Brickell is a ghost town though. Or very sterile.

 

City Center in DC is possibly the most boring and lifeless place in DC. 

 

“

D.C. got everything it wanted out of CityCenterDC — except the crowds

At first we kind of figured the major retailers didn’t think there was enough market in downtown and maybe it wasn’t the time,” said William B. Alsup III, the developer who stuck with the project through four mayors.

 

When construction began, the New York Times referred to the project as a “modern-day Rockefeller Center.”

The problem is great city neighborhoods don’t typically form that way. The messiness and chaos created by multiple visions are often what make urban streets unique and memorable.

 

Stepping into CityCenter can feel like hitting the mute button on the energy and noise of the surrounding streets, but not always in a good way. And Hines executives are aware that something is missing.

“https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/dc-got-everything-it-wanted-out-of-citycenterdc--except-the-crowds/2016/12/07/26987794-9b9d-11e6-a0ed-ab0774c1eaa5_story.html?utm_term=.2d52ad0388f8 “

 

I heard Miami’s Brickell was a similar experience. 

 

I actually disagree. I have lived in DC now since August and the 5 or 6 times I have passed by CityCenter the plaza seemed packed with tourists taking Instagram photos of CityCenter's decorated alleys. I don't know if the actual retailers are doing well, but I enjoy going to Fig & Olive and DBGB. I was last there a couple of days after New Years on a Tuesday evening for dinner with some friends at Fig and the plaza had a band playing and there were quite a few people hanging out watching them perform.

[Desert Power]

10 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

New Duke Tower land, Gateway Station, levineland. All hope is not lost. Gateway station has the benefit of public dollars. What a fabulous place for a retail center.

You're right but that is about the order I would rank them.  3rd Ward has already done what Levine can't/won't (as has Stonewall) and LU still has a parcel on Tryon and Stonewall.  Would be the best place for something like this IMO.  I just think those other areas are a long way to have enough traffic to make something like this viable there. 

Rereading your comment, are you talking about retail where the new Duke tower is going or in the building they are vacating adjacent to the stadium?  My response was about the latter. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by Desert Power

[Crucial_Infra]

[Twin Citian]

On 2/4/2019 at 11:06 AM, SydneyCarton said:

Downtown Minneapolis tried to create a very nice, high-end retail street, and it was a huge failure.  Most of the stores have closed.

Nicollet Mall was never meant to be a high-end only retail street.  Also, most of the stores that have closed have either gone out of business or have closed hundreds of stores nationwide.  There is still a Nordstrom Rack, Saks Off 5th, the flagship Target, Brooks Brothers, Allen Edmonds, Banana Republic, a number of boutique stores, etc...  As someone already pointed out, having the or one the largest malls in the US ten miles away doesn't help.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Twin Citian

[SydneyCarton]

37 minutes ago, Twin Citian said:

Nicollet Mall was never meant to be a high-end only retail street.  Also, most of the stores that have closed have either gone out of business or have closed hundreds of stores nationwide.  There is still a Nordstrom Rack, Saks Off 5th, the flagship Target, Brooks Brothers, Allen Edmonds, Banana Republic, a number of boutique stores, etc...  As someone already pointed out, having the or one the largest malls in the US ten miles away doesn't help.

Thanks.  I haven't been to Minneapolis for years.  I like it there but couldn't take the climate.  Anyway, I thought that Brooks Brothers, etc had closed too.  The fact that there's a big mall is irrelevant.   Charlotte has a big, fancy mall even closer to its downtown.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

Thanks.  I haven't been to Minneapolis for years.  I like it there but couldn't take the climate.  Anyway, I thought that Brooks Brothers, etc had closed too.  The fact that there's a big mall is irrelevant.   Charlotte has a big, fancy mall even closer to its downtown.

proving perhaps, just how relevant that actually is. 

[KJHburg]

Legacy tower 1 today from all angles close up and afar.  Beautiful day in the QC 77 and sunny.  Last photo is Legacy 2 site and this new 18 story will be right at the sidewalk. 

[archiebarrier49]

On 2/3/2019 at 11:05 AM, SydneyCarton said:

Outside of the biggest, most-established cities (e.g., NY, Boston,  Chicago, and SF), most cities' downtown retail is terrible; this is true even for relatively large cities, such as  D.C. Dallas, Houston, Atlanta.

Seattle and Miami have developed pretty good retail, though that's moreso in the form of urban, downtown malls.

I think that Charlotte's downtown is relatively vibrant.  It has a nice movie theater, bowling alley, and Whole Foods.  A Books a Million would be nice. 

In any event, in the era of online shopping, cities that never established downtown retail probably never will.

Atlanta has Atlantic station.

[CLT2014]

5 minutes ago, archiebarrier49 said:

Atlanta has Atlantic station.

Atlantic Station isn't really in downtown Atlanta, which was Sydney's point. Atlantic Station is on the edge of Midtown Atlanta and about 3 miles from downtown Atlanta, showing good retail is struggling to break into the downtown area of many cities. 

Edited February 5, 2019 by CLT2014

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, archiebarrier49 said:

Atlanta has Atlantic station.

Have you ever crossed over 85/75 on foot via 17th? Atlantic Station is so disconnected from Midtown that it doesn't count.

[j-man]

17 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Have you ever crossed over 85/75 on foot via 17th? Atlantic Station is so disconnected from Midtown that it doesn't count.

To add to that I do not understand how Charlotte has been rated so high on the list of least walk-able cities. Atlanta seems like the most dangerous place to walk with all those overpasses, fences, bridges, and horribly planned roads. I think Atlanta is more of a city for shopping in one central location and it is a city that has not suffered from the death of these indoor malls. Charlotte has great malls as well, but I see it as a better contender for a connected shopping district.  Possibly SouthEnd. 

Edited February 6, 2019 by j-man

[Guest]

1 minute ago, j-man said:

To add to that I do not understand how Charlotte has been rated so high on the list of least walk-able cities. Atlanta seems like the most dangerous place to walk with all those overpasses, fences, bridges, and horribly planned roads. I think Atlanta is more denominational and is a city that has not suffered from the death of these indoor malls. Charlotte has great malls as well, but I see it as a better contender for a connected shopping district.  Possibly SouthEnd. 

Elizabeth Avenue because of the intact grid and main street style density is the best candidate for a stroll district. 

[j-man]

Just now, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Elizabeth Avenue because of the intact grid and main street style density is the best candidate for a stroll district. 

Yeah I can see that. forgot about that one.  

[tozmervo]

2 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Have you ever crossed over 85/75 on foot via 17th? Atlantic Station is so disconnected from Midtown that it doesn't count.

omg, a few years ago I worked on Peachtree for a few weeks and stayed across the interstate at Atlantic Station. It was miserable

[15895]

2 hours ago, archiebarrier49 said:

Atlanta has Atlantic station.

That’s a suburban development (that just so happens to have a couple skyscrapers), an island unto itself wrapped around pedestrian unfriendly streets though. Right?  If so, I feel like it’s the exact thing people are complaining about (only instead of Atlantic Station, it’s Midtown and SouthEnd)

 

Maybe I’m wrong. 

 

Edited February 5, 2019 by AirNostrumMAD

[tozmervo]

5 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

That’s a suburban development (that just so happens to have a couple skyscrapers), an island unto itself wrapped around pedestrian unfriendly streets though. Right?  If so, I feel like it’s the exact thing people are complaining about (only instead of Atlantic Station, it’s Midtown and SouthEnd)

 

Maybe I’m wrong. 

I think calling it a suburban development isn't quite fair because the ground experience is executed very nicely. The truth is it's very walkable from several nearby residential neighborhoods. The weird caveat with Atlantic Station is that it's a big damn parking deck with a stroll district built on top. 

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

omg, a few years ago I worked on Peachtree for a few weeks and stayed across the interstate at Atlantic Station. It was miserable

I stayed there years ago, a few weeks after it opened. I stayed there because it had "Station" in the name. So I figured it'd have a Marta stop and I could access the city. Admittedly I should have researched better, but google was not robust from a transit perspective at the time (hell I might have bene using Yahoo or Ask frickin Jeeves. Ride share was not yet a concept either. So I, equipped with a map, and my trusty Alltel Mobile flip phone, walked the longest mile of my life to the nearest Marta station.  

That felt like my @tarhoosier story for the day. 

When I was your age, I walked 2 miles round trip to the subway across a 22 lane highway, uphill both ways.

Edited February 5, 2019 by Guest

[videtur quam contuor]

No shoes, barbed wire on my feet for traction.

[15895]

4 minutes ago, tozmervo said:

I think calling it a suburban development isn't quite fair because the ground experience is executed very nicely. The truth is it's very walkable from several nearby residential neighborhoods. The weird caveat with Atlantic Station is that it's a big damn parking deck with a stroll district built on top. 

I agree the ground experience is fabulous. But  I feel like that’s how modern suburban style developments (“Villages”) are trending these days. 

IE, Birkdale Village to me is a typical suburban development. I think these types of developments are fabulous. Walkable, enjoyable, places to gather, etc. but to me, it’s still suburban in nature. But that’s my opinion 

[J-Rob]

2 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Elizabeth Avenue because of the intact grid and main street style density is the best candidate for a stroll district. 

*Off-topic Warning*

@ricky_davis_fan_21 , you mentioned Grubb and Novant aren't working together anymore (I assume because the Kings College situation happened).  My understanding previously is that Novant was holding up Grubb/Elizabeth redevelopment.  If Grubb/Novant aren't working together anymore, does that mean Grubb can actually develop some of the gravel parking lots now?  Is there an article waiting to be written about this?  There is soo much unrealized potential along Elizabeth Ave.  I am reading between the lines hoping that there is chance it actually happens in the near future.

[SydneyCarton]

8 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

proving perhaps, just how relevant that actually is. 

Perhaps I misspoke.   NY, for example, supports massive amounts of very expensive retail because there are tons of very rich people in many different neighborhoods in Manhattan.   These stores don't rely on people driving in from Westchester, Connecticut, NJ, and Nassau.   Other than cities like NY, SF, Boston, and Chicago, there aren't many US cities with huge numbers of very, very rich residents (let alone hoards of tourists) to support this level of urban retail.

For the typical US city, like Charlotte, Atlanta, Dallas, etc., most wealthy people who shop at these stores don't live downtown.  They live in the suburbs and that's where they want to shop.   

I don't think that Charlotte needs a street lined with Burberry, Brooks Brothers, Pink, Tiffany, Cartier, etc. to validate it.   It has a lot of great stuff in Uptown as it is, and for those who want to buy fancy stuff, a short drive to Southpark isn't too onerous.

Edited February 6, 2019 by SydneyCarton