Legacy Union (former Charlotte Observer redevelopment)

[Dandy Chiggens]

Shouldn't the "retail" in these buildings cater towards the people who these buildings were actually built for?

That's why a gym is a great idea. 

Don't really care about someone who doesn't live/work in Uptown needing to buy a v-neck t-shirt while they are spending an afternoon in Uptown.

[15895]

About to beat a dead horse, but in desperate.

Sooo. Honeywell and SunBBT could be interested in towers at Legacy....  Deloitte is there. Bank of America is there. What are the odds there is something pretty awesome about the ground level that would attract them all? 

It was first said that Simon was interested in partnering with Lincoln Harris for an urban mall/significant retail. Then it dwindled and dwindled until we got to a bank branch, a giant gym and “don’t hold your breath.” I just feel like if there’s that much high caliber interest from tenants, is Lincoln Harris just the easiest option or is this particularly a attractive space and I just don’t know it yet? 

 

Also. Again. Surrounding is Loads of Wells Fargo folks, Duke, New Duke Tower, Regions Tower, Ally Financial, BofA, Deloitte, possibly Honeywell, Possibly SunTrust, museums, NFL stadium, the cities premier park, luxury apartment towers (museum tower, etc), Whole Foods, a convention center, JW Marriott, Westin.... 

this is the place..... for something special for the ground level. 

[Dale]

*cue for some insider to opine that Charlotte is just not ready for retail ... as peer (and even smaller )downtowns boom with retail.

[nuthinberger]

13 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

This is the place..... for something special for the ground level. 

 

The lot is quickly shrinking with the massive garage and office towers.  I doubt there is enough room left for a mall or any game-changing retail.  

[atlrvr]

On 3/7/2019 at 6:48 PM, atlrvr said:

Guessing next week.  Looks like most of the footers are poured.

Yep, LU2 vertical as of yesterday.  The have the forms up for the first floor concrete columns.

[NCMike1990]

12 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

Yep, LU2 vertical as of yesterday.  The have the forms up for the first floor concrete columns.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, nuthinberger said:

The lot is quickly shrinking with the massive garage and office towers.  I doubt there is enough room left for a mall or any game-changing retail.  

I think theres still a small chance that 600 South Tryon could have a sizable amount of retail. I've talked to a few people who have hinted at something similar to what was once "CityFair" on floors 1-3 within the podium of this eventual phase.  With that said, I've pretty much gotten the Lifetime Fitness rumor confirmed by anyone who is not Lincoln Harris.  So if that rumor is true, I could see this mega gym taking up almost entire podium (60,000 sq feet of ground space existing.)

[urbanlover568]

hmmm heard on the street might be a financial with a horse and carriage whatever that means.  

[CLT2014]

2 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

It was first said that Simon was interested in partnering with Lincoln Harris for an urban mall/significant retail. Then it dwindled and dwindled until we got to a bank branch, a giant gym and “don’t hold your breath.” I just feel like if there’s that much high caliber interest from tenants, is Lincoln Harris just the easiest option or is this particularly a attractive space and I just don’t know yet.

I think these high caliber tenants like that this part of Uptown is like a vertical Ballantyne. It is new, clean feeling, has less homeless people than N Tryon, has a massive parking garage, Tesla parking, close interstate access, light rail access for the middle class workers, etc.... it allows the exec team to attract millennials by being in the Center City while keeping a rather safe/corporate vibe for themselves in the broader block of their HQ's. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by CLT2014

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

I think these high caliber tenants like that this part of Uptown is like a vertical Ballantyne. It is new, clean feeling, has less homeless people than N Tryon, has a massive parking garage, Tesla parking, close interstate access, light rail access for the middle class workers, etc.... it allows the exec team to attract millennials by being in the Center City while keeping a rather safe/corporate vibe for themselves in the broader block of their HQ's. 

BINGO

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

2 hours ago, Dandy Chiggens said:

Shouldn't the "retail" in these buildings cater towards the people who these buildings were actually built for?

That's basically the mindset of overstreet mall. LU retail is a different beast imo. It's going to be no doubt a new center of gravity uptown and attract a ton of foot traffic once all phases are built. Proximity of the stadium, potential entertainment district, and everything along stonewall...retail at LU needs to cater to everyone that works, lives, and visits uptown.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Dandy Chiggens said:

Shouldn't the "retail" in these buildings cater towards the people who these buildings were actually built for?

That's why a gym is a great idea. 

Don't really care about someone who doesn't live/work in Uptown needing to buy a v-neck t-shirt while they are spending an afternoon in Uptown.

yes but the point is for Uptown to be a destination outside of M-F, 9-5, to cater to more than just office workers. We are trying to get passed being office park, and become a actual urban center. A gym is a great idea. A Gym the size of a Walmart is stupidity.

[KJHburg]

There will be coffee shops, restaurants and maybe some soft goods retailers but not sure what some of you are expecting in terms of retail?  I think an Apple store would work maybe high end chain clothing store (H&M)  however many retailers are not really expanding now.  I would love a mini Belks selling some of their best selling items but mainly use the store to try on pick up online orders.  Only 2 cities in the last decade have gotten a new department store downtown that I know of :  Miami with Saks at Brickell City Center and Nordstrom and Neiman Marcus to Manhattan.   A super expensive new project like Legacy will have high rents thus most soft goods store and most non food serving stores can't  afford it. Not trying to be negative but realistic.  No mall will be built here just not gonna happen.  

Great restaurants can get suburbanites to uptown and they do now.  Retail is another story as most suburbanites have access to large malls and shopping centers with ample free parking. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by KJHburg

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

That's basically the mindset of overstreet mall. LU retail is a different beast imo. It's going to be no doubt a new center of gravity uptown and attract a ton of foot traffic once all phases are built. Proximity of the stadium, potential entertainment district, and everything along stonewall...retail at LU needs to cater to everyone that works, lives, and visits uptown.

I think you are giving Bank of America Stadium, as presently used 10 or so days a year, too much credit as a economic generator for retail. Perhaps Tepper can change that. 

15 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

  high end chain clothing store (H&M) 

Not the right demographics for Uptown. Also not high end. If Charlotte had a significant downtown college, with lets say 10,000 students, H&M would be downtown already. Its a majority Men 25-40 uptown. I could see traditional airport retail. Maybe Johnson & Murphy, Brooks Brothers, if you wanted to go more specialty, Indochino would do well. Going to need to build another 20 residential buildings, and grow another 5000-8000 residents, and a heck of a lot more women, to attract mall style retail. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Guest

[stw52]

7 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

yes but the point is for Uptown to be a destination outside of M-F, 9-5, to cater to more than just office workers. We are trying to get passed being office park, and become a actual urban center. A gym is a great idea. A Gym the size of a Walmart is stupidity.

Why not let the core of Uptown be all office with retail only to support M-F workers? Southend could become the designated shopping / entertainment district. When I think of other financial districts London (the City), Toronto  (Bay Street), and NY (Wall Street)  are all office only areas, with adjoining areas giving life outside of M-F office hours. Just a thought!

Edited March 14, 2019 by stw52

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, stw52 said:

Why not let the core of Uptown be all office with retail only to support M-F workers? Southend could become the designated shopping / entertainment district. When I think of other financial districts London (the City), Toronto  (Bay Street), and NY (Wall Street)  are all office only areas, with adjoining areas giving life outside of M-F office hours. Just a thought!

Because none of the aforementioned areas have been M-F only areas in years, I've been to all three on weekends in the past 18 months.

Thats just not the trend. Its about being Live, Work, Play, as passé as that term is. Its about having something to do 7 days a week, and being in a walkable cohesive urban environment. You want to be able to attract people uptown. The land is too valuable to only see M-F uses.

NOTE: I'm sure I come across as super cynical, and its because I am. Its just how it works

Edited March 14, 2019 by Guest

[stw52]

2 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Because none of the aforementioned areas have been M-F only areas in years, I've been to all three on weekends in the past 18 months.

Thats just not the trend. Its about being Live, Work, Play, as passé as that term is. Its about having something to do 7 days a week, and being in a walkable cohesive urban environment. You want to be able to attract people uptown. The land is too valuable to only see M-F uses.

I do agree, and  your vision is what i want to happen, but developers seems to be focused on office right now, presumably as that is where the money is, and that is how older cities have panned out over the years.

Only  more  people residing in Uptown will attract retail and some more  entertainment.  We really need condos and cheaper apartments (but I'm aware of the complexities of trying to achieve both)  to build a   Live, Work, Play, environment.    

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, stw52 said:

I do agree, and  your vision is what i want to happen, but developers seems to be focused on office right now, presumably as that is where the money is, and that is how older cities have panned out over the years.

Only  more  people residing in Uptown will attract retail and some more  entertainment.  We really need condos and cheaper apartments (but I'm aware of the complexities of trying to achieve both)  to build a   Live, Work, Play, environment.    

Agreed more residential is the key.

This is where Lincoln Harris has drastically fallen short. There's more than one way to skin a cat. In other words, there's more than one way to make money in development. They should be interested in creating a cohesive urban environment, with multiple uses, in their home city, not literally sucking all of the tenants with expiring leases out of legacy office buildings uptown. Thats what they are doing. I'd rather them sit on land and build a small park in its place, while they wait for the market to give them a window for something better. All they are doing currently is empty out Bank of America Plaza, Three Wells Fargo, One Wells Fargo, Hearst, BankOfAmerica Corp and etc. But hey, capitalism, YOLO 

Edited March 14, 2019 by Guest

[KJHburg]

2 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Agreed more residential is the key.

This is where Lincoln Harris has drastically fallen short. There's more than one way to skin a cat. In other words, these more than one way to make money in development. They should be interested in creating a cohesive urban environment, with multiple uses, in their home city, not literally sucking all of the tenants with expiring leases out of legacy office buildings uptown. Thats what they are doing. I'd rather them sit on land and build a small park in its place, while they wait for the market to give them a window for something better. All they are doing currently is empty out Bank of America Plaza, Hearst and etc. 

well the same could be said of Duke Energy leaving 400 South Tryon which they lease 80% plus of it.  I think other tenants will backfill these older buildings as long as they are updated either by expansion of existing companies or new tenants moving into uptown from the region or out of market.   Not every tenant wants to be close to $40 a sq ft either.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, KJHburg said:

well the same could be said of Duke Energy leaving 400 South Tryon which they lease 80% plus of it.  I think other tenants will backfill these older buildings as long as they are updated either by expansion of existing companies or new tenants moving into uptown from the region or out of market.   Not every tenant wants to be close to $40 a sq ft either.

Those legacy buildings aren't going to be a whole lot cheaper. maybe $2-3 psf

Edited March 14, 2019 by Guest

[CharlotteWkndBuzz]

21 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I think you are giving Bank of America Stadium, as presently used 10 or so days a year, too much credit as a economic generator for retail. Perhaps Tepper can change that. 

True, I do hope more events happen at BOA (they will), but I was also referring to the stadium as a point of interest/landmark that helps attract foot traffic on non game days. I consider this a sight to see for visitors. I really wish the stadium had some sort of modern/interactive museum to honor the Panthers past, present and future. 

[KJHburg]

Just now, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

True, I do hope more events happen at BOA (they will), but I was also referring to the stadium as a point of interest/landmark that helps attract foot traffic on non game days. I consider this a sight to see for visitors. I really wish the stadium had some sort of modern/interactive museum to honor the Panthers past, present and future. 

Jerry's Dome charges like $30 to tour it.  KJ the Panthers fan was going to pay UP to $5 no more. So I snapped some photos of the outside and peeled out of Arlington.

A museum and a more robust store would be great. 

[DMann]

Tesla parking!!!!!  Will there be superchargers in the garage to save me from driving to Mallard Creek Church Rd?

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, CharlotteWkndBuzz said:

True, I do hope more events happen at BOA (they will), but I was also referring to the stadium as a point of interest/landmark that helps attract foot traffic on non game days. I consider this a sight to see for visitors. I really wish the stadium had some sort of modern/interactive museum to honor the Panthers past, present and future. 

Only stadiums I've ever gone out of my way to look at are Fenway, and Camden Yards. Not enough of a legacy to attract tourists. 

[KJHburg]

since Bank of America is the lead tenant in this Legacy 1 tower I checked out their job openings.   Interesting to note they have 773 job openings in Charlotte with a total of 8023 opening across the whole country.  That is 9.6% of their total openings in Charlotte!  In NYC you ask 349 job openings. 

Edited March 14, 2019 by KJHburg