Legacy Union (former Charlotte Observer redevelopment)

[alb1no panther]

1 hour ago, edmundblackadder1999 said:

It just struck me that this may look very similar to a taller version of Odell Plaza (the tower portion of Odell, at least).

I would hope that the architects surveyed the current buildings, and designed accordingly.  I can't remember who, but someone on here has seen images, and is very impressed.  It does pique my curiosity, though--how can they truly redefine and set the new structure apart??  This is why I'm not an architect.

Edited October 15, 2016 by alb1no panther

[edmundblackadder1999]

Well if it looks like WW Plaza, I'll be pleased!  WWP is the 800' tower with the pyramid crown on the far right.

 

Photo by ILNY

Edited October 15, 2016 by edmundblackadder1999

[Norm2]

43 minutes ago, edmundblackadder1999 said:

Well if it looks like WW Plaza, I'll be pleased!  WWP is the 800' tower with the pyramid crown on the far right.

 

Photo by ILNY

What is the pyramid looking building on the far left? That is an awesome looking building!

[edmundblackadder1999]

It's a 600' residential tower by Bjarke Engels.  He has many projects in NY right now, including two torqued towers that interact with one another.  (ShOP Architects just built a similar twin tower design for JDS Development).  The current NY boom is creating the best architecture the city has seen since the 1920s.  My favorites are 53 W 53rd Street,  111 W 57th, 30 Hudson Yards, 1 Vanderbilt, 56 Leonard, and 111 Murray.

I think that in the next cycle, Charlotte will start to get some wild designs too.

i think that the Observer Tower will be amazing!

Edited October 16, 2016 by edmundblackadder1999

[CLTProductions]

1 hour ago, edmundblackadder1999 said:

It's a 600' residential tower by Bjarke Engels.  He has many projects in NY right now, including two torqued towers that interact with one another.  (ShOP Architects just built a similar twin tower design for JDS Development).  The current NY boom is creating the best architecture the city has seen since the 1920s.  My favorites are 53 W 53rd Street,  111 W 57th, 30 Hudson Yards, 1 Vanderbilt, 56 Leonard, and 111 Murray.

I think that in the next cycle, Charlotte will start to get some wild designs too.

i think that the Observer Tower will be amazing!

It's a sick building. It is called VIA 57 West. It's actually only 467'

[edmundblackadder1999]

Thanks for the info, Jayvee.

i think similar projects will start to rise in Charlotte.

 

[Matthew.Brendan]

Yeah in 2116  lol

[Nick2]

Charlotte's population could easily double in 50 years and probably much more than that in uptown. It will be cool to see how things progress in the future. I look forward to it.

[ChessieCat]

On 10/14/2016 at 9:32 AM, RiverwoodCLT said:

Who knows, but it a 9+ earthquake hits San Francisco Wells Fargo  may move HQ to Charlotte just to keep the company going.

 

On 10/13/2016 at 10:06 PM, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I'm the one who said duke wont be the tenant. And I've heard it from three people in the related industries. I think tenant is wells 

Forget an earthquake, San Francisco is openly discussing cutting ties with Wells Fargo and the state of California already has.  With Wells management facing an inquisition not seen since Spanish colonial rule in California, no wonder Lincoln Harris is already digging the foundation at the the Observer site!!!:

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2016/10/17/wells-fargo-bank-san-francisco-scandal-wfc-titanic.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search&google_editors_picks=true

[cjd5050]

2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

Forget an earthquake, San Francisco is openly discussing cutting ties with Wells Fargo and the state of California already has.  With Wells management facing an inquisition not seen since Spanish colonial rule in California, no wonder Lincoln Harris is already digging the foundation at the the Observer site!!!:

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2016/10/17/wells-fargo-bank-san-francisco-scandal-wfc-titanic.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search&google_editors_picks=true

I wonder how WF could even play that hand?  Could they say in an effort to restore trust they are going to lean on former Wachovia management?  

Would be pretty sweet if by cutting off WF in such a public spectacle that both CA and SF faced massive layoffs.  

[ChessieCat]

10 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

I wonder how WF could even play that hand?  Could they say in an effort to restore trust they are going to lean on former Wachovia management?  

Would be pretty sweet if by cutting off WF in such a public spectacle that both CA and SF faced massive layoffs.  

Forget layoffs, WF should move those jobs to the Observer site in 2017/18 and build multiple towers for everyone!!!

Edited October 18, 2016 by ChessieCat

[49er]

Well with this building only having one underground level it can come out of the ground way faster than 300 South Tryon did and thus deliver a lot sooner.

[go_vertical]

2 hours ago, ChessieCat said:

 

Forget an earthquake, San Francisco is openly discussing cutting ties with Wells Fargo and the state of California already has.  With Wells management facing an inquisition not seen since Spanish colonial rule in California, no wonder Lincoln Harris is already digging the foundation at the the Observer site!!!:

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2016/10/17/wells-fargo-bank-san-francisco-scandal-wfc-titanic.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search&google_editors_picks=true

Does something like this have a precedent? I find this quite interesting. If this continues to play out what is the realistic possibility we end up with the corporate headquarters here?

[J-Rob]

Honestly I thought everyone was just being jokingly optimistic.  It seems unrealistic to me to expect WF to leave San Fransico for Charlotte.  I get transferring jobs due to cost-savings, but moving the headquarters doesn't seem likely to me.  In my mind Wells and San Fran are almost synonymous, and even though the state and city might slap WF on the wrist (or even heavily penalize them) I can't see the state or city doing too much of serious/long-lasting significance because unless they are crazy they wouldn't want to lose the local jobs or the prestige associated with having such a high profile headquarters.

This isn't even to mention the fact that the executives might identify with the high-priced and near-by areas such as Napa and Silicon Valleys more so than they would with Charlotte.  I love Charlotte and would absolutely love for Wells to move jobs this direction, but moving the headquarters itself just doesn't seem likely to me.

[jtmonk]

34 minutes ago, 49er said:

Well with this building only having one underground level it can come out of the ground way faster than 300 South Tryon did and thus deliver a lot sooner.

Quick question, how do you know it's only one level underground?

[49er]

That is what it shows on the plans I have seen. 

[jtmonk]

Nice, really looking forward to seeing this development take off.

[KJHburg]

Wells has been moving jobs out of the Bay area for years and this anti-Wells attitudes in California and San Francisco may speed  that up. As for them moving the headquarters maybe maybe not but remember Bank of America was long associated with San Fran until then Charlotte based Nationsbank bought them.  So anything is possible. California is the most anti business state in the country and the high paying headquarters staff gets hit with a really high income tax too. Wells may now be more open about moving jobs out of California to lower costs places like Charlotte. 

[kermit]

On 10/19/2016 at 1:16 AM, KJHburg said:

California is the most anti business state in the country

While I agree that Wells has become a punching bag, this trope may be getting a little tired. The rate of job and GDP growth in California has exceeded the national rate since 2011 so I am not sure that data point towards an 'anti-business' climate anymore.

North Carolina has a lot going for it, but in terms of job and GDP growth we are doing relatively poorly (compared to California) over the same period. 

Edited October 23, 2016 by kermit

[cjd5050]

3 hours ago, kermit said:

While I agree that Wells has become a punching bag, this trope may be getting a little tired. The rate of job and GDP growth in California has exceeded the national rate since 2011 so I am not sure that data point towards an 'anti-business' climate anymore.

North Carolina has a lot going for it, but in terms of job and GDP growth we are doing relatively poorly (compared to California) over the same period. Our time zone on the other hand...

As a former California resident I'll give you that growth has found a way to happen despite the business climate but I won't go as far as to say California is no longer anti-business.  It's always been really difficult to do business in California but people still flock there regardless.  Hell my fiancee worked for a lab that their entire business model was based around government mandated testing and they are not showing any signs of slowing down.  

But one has to wonder what's going to happen if the under current grows in strength.  

There is already an exodus of tech flowing out of the valley and to places like Utah.  I have a client that keeps a window dressing office for top level executives in the bay area but the majority of their operations have moved to South Jordan.  If the tech bubble is real, and there are signs that are pointing to this, California could be in for a pretty large correction.  Just read yesterday that the copy of Twitter in China was just valued higher than Twitter itself. 

In San Diego, where I lived, the housing market is ridiculous and the gap between the haves and have nots is only growing and there is not the VC money.  Yet people still arrive on a daily basis.  

The biggest challenge I see for California is the lack of wealth for people who are making really good money.  I know multiple people who are making six figures who still rent and don't have much savings at all.  They pay crazy high rents or at times mortgages for property that has you scratching your head.  If you think rents in the SouthEnd are high...just imagine paying that but getting to live in a dump.  

My assumption is that any sort of a market correction is going to reverb for a long, long time.  Unlike the previous tech bubble that people were not prepared for at all, there is a significant amount of tech infrastructure established in other markets that can pounce on a downturn, making it much harder to recover.  

What does this mean for WF?  Not sure.  Don't know much about the banking industry but I will say that I'll gladly accept in Charlotte the majority of middle management down over window dressing HQ positions based purely on the impact to the overall economy.  

[Richhamleigh, DC]

15 hours ago, kermit said:

While I agree that Wells has become a punching bag, this trope may be getting a little tired. The rate of job and GDP growth in California has exceeded the national rate since 2011 so I am not sure that data point towards an 'anti-business' climate anymore.

North Carolina has a lot going for it, but in terms of job and GDP growth we are doing relatively poorly (compared to California) over the same period. Our time zone on the other hand...

Thank you Kermit and I apologize if this belongs in the chatter section. 

The "anti-business" mantra is overly exaggerated in my opinion.  Rules need tweaking but the ultimate purpose of government is to do the things that the private sector can't or shouldn't do ultimately to protect and promote the health, safety and welfare of citizens.  Talk about 'anti-business"?  The NCGA passed a law that prohibits local governments from extending broadband internet into areas that the private sector won't serve, resulting in millions of people being cut-off from economic, business, healthcare, and educational opportunities in communities that are in desperate need of all three. 

Also, businesses need people who can read, they need workers who can access jobs, and highly qualified professionals demand more than a cheap house in a community / state with low taxes.  As far as the example of Utah -- Utah invests heavily in public recreation, schools, and mass transit.  Utah may be socially conservative, but fiscally, it's more progressive.

Where I come from, General Electric had a choice to move to low-cost-land but instead moved from one "anti-business" state to another. 

Edited October 19, 2016 by Phillydog

[KJHburg]

I guess the question is whether Wells is anchor possibility for Tryon Place or Lincoln Harris's Observer site. I think Lincoln Harris has an anchor tenant due to the speed of their work on the site, permits etc.   

As for California look over this report from a leading site selection specialist who is based in Orange County CA citing business moves out of California over the last few years and yes Charlotte has benefited http://www.spectrumlocationsolutions.com/pdf/Businesses-Leave-California-.pdf

 

[atlrvr]

The building permits for the foundation just entered into review on Monday.....this is moving lightening speed as far as office tower are concerned.

 

Edit...just brining the convo from Tryon Place over to here, but I agree that the pyramid/stone cladding of this does scream financial institution or law firm or something boring like a utility.

1) if rumors are true, it's not Duke Energy, so I guess utility is out (though again, the wording that Duke is "no longer looking" could imply they have found something.  Logic of their merger with PNG and the expiring committments to maintaing corp jobs in Raleigh, as well as close proximity to current office buildings still makes me think it COULD be Duke.

2) not going to be a law firm...no firm in Charlotte is big enough to anchor this project to justify the speed it's moving

3) i dunno....could be Wells, but I just don't buy it.....primarily because I believe Wells would covet the parking lot next to The Green.

4) BofA....again, they own the land next to Hall House on "there end of town"...

5) I think if it's a financial institution, US Bank is likely, only except I just would be surprised that they need even 1/2 that space.  I think they are around 120k sf ft....my gut is an anchor getting this thing moving so quick would be taking at LEAST 400k.  they seem to be slowly expanding.

6) i guess there is always the random Fortune 500 relocation possibility, but it would be odd for Charlotte/NC to land one of those in this political climate....especially a company that would actively seek a CBD location (i know that's a broad brush statement that probably has lots of exceptions)

All that keeps taking me back to Duke Energy, but I'm really hoping it's a massive influx of US Bank jobs.

2 wild cards.....CitiGroup leases 165k sq ft in Fort Mill.  It was originally a mortgage processing center, but they cleared a lot of those jobs out during the crises.  Recently they've been hiring IT, Risk Mgmt, and retail banking product people, and I think 1 of their top retail banking execs is based in Charlotte.  The other is AIG.  They are restructuring and reducing costs.  Maybe, similar to MetLife, Charlotte would be attractive to them.  Met supposed considered Uptown, but they wanted to move faster than any project could get off the ground...maybe AIG considering something similar?  Both companies would be attracted to this "traditional architecture"

[cjd5050]

16 hours ago, atlrvr said:

Just brining the convo from Tryon Place over to here, but I agree that the pyramid/stone cladding of this does scream financial institution or law firm or something boring like a utility.

1) if rumors are true, it's not Duke Energy, so I guess utility is out (though again, the wording that Duke is "no longer looking" could imply they have found something.  Logic of their merger with PNG and the expiring commitments to maintaining corp jobs in Raleigh, as well as close proximity to current office buildings still makes me think it COULD be Duke.

3) i dunno....could be Wells, but I just don't buy it.....primarily because I believe Wells would covet the parking lot next to The Green.

5) I think if it's a financial institution, US Bank is likely, only except I just would be surprised that they need even 1/2 that space.  I think they are around 120k sf ft....my gut is an anchor getting this thing moving so quick would be taking at LEAST 400k.  they seem to be slowly expanding.

All that keeps taking me back to Duke Energy, but I'm really hoping it's a massive influx of US Bank jobs.

 

So the take away here for me is that there are several plausible options and based on the speed at which LH is moving at least one of those is locked in.  I think the case for it being either WF or Duke/PNG are both compelling.  To that I say: Why not both?

What's interesting to me is the idea of US Bank continually expanding into Charlotte but not having a single branch here.  Is it even possible they are maybe shopping for a NC bank to acquire?  Right now US Bank has consumer and business banking in 25 states but nothing on the east coast.  BB&T on the other hand is up and down the East Coast and if you map out both banks there is not much overlap.  Am I dreaming?

 

 

Edited October 20, 2016 by cjd5050
Added Map

[DMann]

Yep