Legacy Union (former Charlotte Observer redevelopment)

[Guest]

I like the JW Marriott and  I also like BOAT at Legacy and loving the Legacy 2.  

and what is wrong with a bank lobby?   The reason Charlotte has much taller buildings than our peer cities are our banks and Legacy is planned to have lots of retail anyway.  

No you misunderstood. There will be literally a giant bank branch in the lobby. Why do you think the one at 400 South Tryon closed?

 

As far as Legacy Union 2 goes. Very little of its retail is facing the plaza, theres a lobby taking of 2/3 of that frontage.

 

Its really shaping up to be a complete waste from an urban planning perspective.

 

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[KJHburg]

1 minute ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

No you misunderstood. There will be literally a giant bank branch in the lobby. Why do you think the one at 400 South Tryon closed?


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No I understood I figured a bank that is leasing 550K of space in the building will have a branch there.  Ally is not because they are 100% online bank which is fine.  I am wrong that there is thousands of square feet of retail to come to Legacy? 

In full disclosure I bank at B of A, and Wells and a few others LOL 

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

1 minute ago, KJHburg said:

No I understood I figured a bank that is leasing 550K of space in the building will have a branch there.  Ally is not because they are 100% online bank which is fine.  I am wrong that there is thousands of square feet of retail to come to Legacy? 

In full disclosure I bank at B of A, and Wells and a few others LOL 

That doesn't mean bc you bank there, a lobby bank branch is good for the urban streetscape. Very few people will need to walk into a bank branch in 10 years.

[Guest]

No I understood I figured a bank that is leasing 550K of space in the building will have a branch there.  Ally is not because they are 100% online bank which is fine.  I am wrong that there is thousands of square feet of retail to come to Legacy? 
In full disclosure I bank at B of A, and Wells and a few others LOL 

It remains to be seen what they have planned. I don’t think they are planning this in 2018 terms. I think their principals are stuck in the 80s just like the design. Keep in mind that 12k bank branch would represent 45% of the retail officially announced so far. Not enough people go to banks in person to open a rite aid sized bank branch.


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[KJHburg]

Just now, CarolinaDaydreamin said:

That doesn't mean bc you bank there, a lobby bank branch is good for the urban streetscape. Very few people will need to walk into a bank branch in 10 years.

There will be lots of retail in Legacy and as times change I am sure they will re-evaluate.  This is in the base of the building which is set back quite a ways from South Tryon.  Bank branches are not going away fully any time soon.  Less usage for sure but going away completely not anytime soon.  

[Guest]

There will be lots of retail in Legacy and as times change I am sure they will re-evaluate.  This is in the base of the building which is set back quite a ways from South Tryon.  Bank branches are not going away fully any time soon.  Less usage for sure but going away completely not anytime soon.  

Okay, so less usage, build one half that size. I’m no longer sure there will be a lot of retail. But I’m cutting my initial retail prediction, which was based on insider knowledge by half. 75k is probably the ceiling for this entire development. Southend is proving the more sure fire market.

 

 

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[KJHburg]

But doesn't the closing of the BofA branch at 400 South Tryon open up some potential retail space probably a lot cheaper than at Legacy?   In my opinion we have a good bit of vacant retail space streetlevel to very high rents.  (I hear this is getting to be a big problem in NYC)  Very few non chain retail stores can afford the rents being offered in ground floor spots in uptown Charlotte.  It is just a fact.  That is why you are seeing chains and mostly restaurants (higher end  ones) going into these spaces.  

[CLT2014]

I would guess a 12k BofA branch at this site is big due to the wealth management team. They are moving the US Trust and Merrill Lynch teams in Charlotte into this building. A ground floor branch with lots of private conversation offices for the financial advisors would prevent clients from having to check in with security, get escorted up, and ride elevators to meet their advisor. 

I would be surprised if they needed that much space for teller lines, etc... 

The whole building seems designed to try to have the prestige and power of a financial institution in a skyscraper, with the convenience and accessibility of a Merrill Lynch office in suburban South Park, Cornelius, Ballantyne, Dilworth, Davidson, etc... so clients can easily drive in to meet their advisor. I would assume the attached garage will have dedicated spots for Merrill Lynch and US Trust clients as well so they don't have to walk far. 

Edited November 2, 2018 by CLT2014

[CLTProductions]

1 hour ago, CLT2014 said:

I would guess a 12k BofA branch at this site is big due to the wealth management team. They are moving the US Trust and Merrill Lynch teams in Charlotte into this building. A ground floor branch with lots of private conversation offices for the financial advisors would prevent clients from having to check in with security, get escorted up, and ride elevators to meet their advisor. 

I would be surprised if they needed that much space for teller lines, etc... 

You are correct

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Jayvee said:

You are correct

doesn't mean its right lol. 

[KJHburg]

One thing we can all agree on is that this building which Bank of America is taking 65% of the space was preapproved and signed off by the Bank.  Just as Tryon Place switch designs several times when it was a Duke tower, then a spec tower, to its current form which Ally Bank as anchor.  Bank of America is okay with this design.   Today.  Plus we have seen with the design of Legacy 2 LH is willing to have all different styles on their 2 blocks.  

[Spartan]

12 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

As far as liking JW Marriott goes compared to Legacy Union

• Good street front presence. Stonewall Street will essentially be like a block long Essex. A large bulk of the building will cantilever 20 feet into the sidewalk about 30 feet up. Permanent cover from the elements, so the street level can stay activated year round.

• Nice Texture the articulating windows and alternating lineation on the building adds texture and variance. Not to mention its only about 35% glass curtain. Nearly everything built in Charlotte in the past 10 years has been just glass curtain walls. Nice to see something go away from this.

• Great signage on the stone strip on an angle. I dig that, its difference and huge.

• Its a box sure, but theres subtle bits of articulation. The wall facing Tryon for instance. Its not flat, it slightly articulates, you can see the top of the buildng to see this.

• Sure its a box, but hey, boxes are rarely as poorly proportioned as Legacy Union, a 632’ abortion of a building.

• Its not going to have a 12k sq foot bank branch in the lobby of it. Spoiler Alert Legacy Union retail is going to blow.

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Cool. I do agree that the urban design components of the JW Marriott are better compared to Legacy, but Legacy's site can still be salvaged since there is so much space for additional buildings with lots of street frontage. It's more difficult for me to judge this one as a whole since there are still a lot of unknowns. I think architecturally speaking, they both offer little to the built environment. The core of the problem from that perspective is that they are both rooted in modernist principles which is more a critique of contemporary architecture than the buildings themselves. Subtle variation on bad is still bad.

I 100% agree on excessive lobby space though. It continues to amaze me that as other buildings in uptown reduce the size of their lobbies that new ones continue to make the same mistakes. I guess in 30-40 years we'll get those lobbies converted to retail space too.

 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Spartan said:

Cool. I do agree that the urban design components of the JW Marriott are better compared to Legacy, but Legacy's site can still be salvaged since there is so much space for additional buildings with lots of street frontage. It's more difficult for me to judge this one as a whole since there are still a lot of unknowns. I think architecturally speaking, they both offer little to the built environment. The core of the problem from that perspective is that they are both rooted in modernist principles which is more a critique of contemporary architecture than the buildings themselves. Subtle variation on bad is still bad.

I 100% agree on excessive lobby space though. It continues to amaze me that as other buildings in uptown reduce the size of their lobbies that new ones continue to make the same mistakes. I guess in 30-40 years we'll get those lobbies converted to retail space too.

 

Welp, JW Marriott and Ally Center have minuscule lobbies surrounded by retail. 39,000 sq feet retail between the two buildings.

[JorgiPorgi]

Updates: advancement of glass has now made it to  the upper setback portion of the tower.  Pyramid has been canceled and will be replaced with a larger version of the dramatic Queen Charlotte Statue that is currently located in the airport. Ok, second part is not true but I thoroughly support that idea. 

[Dale]

On 11/1/2018 at 9:26 PM, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I’m addressing me hating Legacy Union here. You can read why I hate it here in article below. Summary; Awkward, bad proportions, bad materials, looks like a two square blocks, a octagon block and a pyramid block on top of each other. The windows that top each transition point belong on a parking deck, not a multi hundred million dollar building. It’s essentially a square building, with crap haphazardly placed on top. It’s building that I’ll lie to visitors about and say its just a well preserved product of the 1980s. Might look fine from straight on, but from 45” angle its fat, ill-proportioned, the step back is too dramatic, and the pyramid is too small, and also not well transitioned. I could do just a few tweaks here and there to make it a better building. It’s awful.

https://www.charlottefive.com/charlotte-deserves-better-than-the-planned-office-tower-at-the-former-observer-site/


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I’ll go so far as to say it’s the worst eagerly-awaited high rise, the past decade, anywhere in the US.

And it’s ours.

[mand1ng0sauc3]

Just for the haters out there who care too much that this building under construction is the worst in the US. Looking great from the game today. Go panthers!!




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[King of the Queen City]

More photos from the game yesterday. I believe that this building is going to look good when all is said and done. Maybe it looks a little awkward from certain angles, but you have to remember that  Legacy Union is a development of several towers and at some point I expect that the upper portion is all you will see from most angles since it will be surrounded by other towers. I believe it will make a nice centerpiece with the pyramid rising in the center of it all. A lot of people have said that they like it as an addition to the skyline, but not as a stand alone tower, but it was never designed to be a stand alone tower. With plans for LU2 already released, I have a feeling that we are going to see an entire family of LU towers all rising within the next few years.

[nicholas]

[jtmonk]

Pretty evening today

Edited November 6, 2018 by jtmonk

[Tyrone Wiggum]

Only to be ruined by a 700 foot turd

[atlrvr]

12 minutes ago, Tyrone Wiggum said:

Only to be ruined by a 700 foot turd

The bottom 90% of Duke Energy Center isn't THAT bad!

[KJHburg]

Couple of Legacy and my oh my is that garage large! Today.  Thank goodness it has multiple exits and entries. 

[Guest]

You've really highlighted how much this building looks like a minecraft version of a better building LOL

[KJHburg]

I was in attendance at the Legacy 2 tower rezoning because of its cantilevered design that overhangs the public right of way about 90 feet up.  LH undoubtedly has a tenant for this tower as they want a decision by Dec or so so they can break ground shortly thereafter.  They are not going spec with it but want it fast tracked.  Could not get a tenant name out of the attorneys (darn non disclosure agreements)  but this tower is being built for Someone.  Of course I gave them my full support LOL to get it going.  

[Nick2]

2 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

I was in attendance at the Legacy 2 tower rezoning because of its cantilevered design that overhangs the public right of way about 90 feet up.  LH undoubtedly has a tenant for this tower as they want a decision by Dec or so so they can break ground shortly thereafter.  They are not going spec with it but want it fast tracked.  Could not get a tenant name out of the attorneys (darn non disclosure agreements)  but this tower is being built for Someone.  Of course I gave them my full support LOL to get it going.  

Did they invite you to the topping out ceremony like they should have?