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Missmylab4

Legacy Union (former Charlotte Observer redevelopment)

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On 11/19/2018 at 10:35 PM, KJHburg said:

I tried before but you have to put your photos in a 3rd party site or something.  It is just complicated unfortunately.  I agree those other sites are big in other cities but if they do any kind search they can find this site very easily.  That is how I stumbled upon it searching for information on a new building or project and kept finding this UrbanPlanet site and that was about 3 years ago. 

It's worth trying.  Unless you are looking for Charlotte specifically, people aren't going Google new development in Charlotte.  You have let people know about Charlotte.  Hiding out here isn't helping spread the word.   

Edited by MACyr
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I have 30 years experience as an urban designer and a master's degree in landscape architecture.  I've lived and worked in New York, Berlin and DC before teaching at NC State and working for NCDOT.  I'm not a casual observer on these topics.  No offense but pedestrian bridges suck the life off streets.  "Adding retail" to a project at the street level is not going drive pedestrian traffic to the street, it takes it away.  

Amen, great post. There’s a lot of anti urban pieces planned with this project. It’s not what uptown needs. It’s more of the same. Lots of internal retail, too much parking, pedestrian tubes. Etc. hard pass.


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3 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:


Amen, great post. There’s a lot of anti urban pieces planned with this project. It’s not what uptown needs. It’s more of the same. Lots of internal retail, too much parking, pedestrian tubes. Etc. hard pass.


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Thank you.  "Anti-urban"...nice, "geography of nowhere"

Good urban spaces are in the details.  I havent been to Charlotte since the Great Stonewall Transformation but the massings of the new structures look too monolithic to make the pedestrian realm very comforting.  Have you been down and walked it?  

Edited by MACyr

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Amen, great post. There’s a lot of anti urban pieces planned with this project. It’s not what uptown needs. It’s more of the same. Lots of internal retail, too much parking, pedestrian tubes. Etc. hard pass.


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And in regards to the other sites, I’d happily contribute if the digital content loading methods changed.


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Just now, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:


And in regards to the other sites, I’d happily contribute if the digital content loading methods changed.


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I may have to take it on.  People have to know what good is happening in NC.

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I may have to take it on.  People have to know what good is happening in NC.

Would help if I lived in Charlotte, if I could walk out my door and take photos everyday I would. I follow development though contacts, friends, listing services, public record, this site, 5 or so annual visits, and lot of interaction with industry people.


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I remain prochoice on pedestrian bridges and tunnels.  I'm all for smart urban design but think people should have the option of staying off the street (for safety, comfort and convenience) if developers are willing to give them the choice.  Those that want to be on the street will be there.  Making the streets safer and more attractive to pedestrians is the way to address this (as opposed to abolishing tunnels).  Just my opinion though.  I only have a GED...

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I actually like the bridges. Nobody wants to be outside on a hot Carolina day. You could put retail on the same level as the bridges too and  exits to street level retail. Having less people cross the streets is safe too and reduces vehicular deaths.

Edited by mpretori

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Don't take my downvotes personally but you guys are so wrong.

We need to have the streets busy with people not cars. Putting retail in tunnels is nuts until there is no space on the streets. We're talking about a city with virtually NO retail! It's friggin dead compared to many cities of 50k or so. That's ridiculous and a pox on our leaders. I really don't think most of you have ever lived in the uptown area which clouds your judgement. In 5 years I've seen almost no progress. Yeah you can get all excited over office towers but for a resident..... Whatever....

Personally I've had enough. Might as well live in the darn burbs.

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6 hours ago, MACyr said:

I have 30 years experience as an urban designer and a master's degree in landscape architecture.  I've lived and worked in New York, Berlin and DC before teaching at NC State and working for NCDOT.  I'm not a casual observer on these topics.  No offense but pedestrian bridges suck the life off streets.  "Adding retail" to a project at the street level is not going drive pedestrian traffic to the street, it takes it away.  

Thanks for sharing your impressive resume.  I guess you could call me a casual observer, but from my observations of the former Charlotte Observer site, I do not think that eliminating the pedestrian bridge would create that much pedestrian traffic on Church Street either except for a few minutes at rush hour and it would all just be across a crosswalk to the tower.  If it were connected to Overstreet Mall, maybe that would be a different scenario, but I do not think this particular pedestrian bridge will make that much of a difference.  As for the retail, it is my understanding that at least some of it will be facing Church Street and some of it will face the promenade.  The fact that there will be retail in the area at all should draw pedestrians from other parts of Uptown (including light rail riders from Stonewall Station).  The promenade will probably be popular for Panthers games and other events at the Stadium as well.  Maybe I’m wrong, and time will tell but I think this development is going to add life to the city when all is said and done. I’m not that concerned with comparing Charlotte to other cities anyway.  We should just let Charlotte be the best version of what it is and grow in our own authentic way.

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7 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:


Drivers need to be travelling Charlotte streets mindful of pedestrians. Thats how streets get more safe. Delivering people to their cars, past the retail is not how you build a cohesive urban realm.

Nobody said past the retail. You can incorporate retail on the same level as the bridges. Anything that can expedite commerce and people through a city I fully support. Bridges reduce deaths, decrease waiting times to cross a street, and increase vehicular mobility. 

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1 hour ago, mpretori said:

Nobody said past the retail. You can incorporate retail on the same level as the bridges. Anything that can expedite commerce and people through a city I fully support. Bridges reduce deaths, decrease waiting times to cross a street, and increase vehicular mobility. 

If I want to shop inside, then I will go to South Park.  Putting pedestrians in tunnels because of potential injury is treating the symptom not the cause.    A more pedestrian friendly street will remedy that issue and creates vibrancy.  

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13 minutes ago, CLTranspo said:

We definitely do not need to increase vehicular mobility in uptown. That's like the opposite of what we should do.

Whether you like it or not, not everyone can afford to live in uptown and have to commute. Rents are insane in uptown. 

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22 minutes ago, asthasr said:

Uptown is tiny. The entirety of the I-277 loop is 1 square mile. The "area of interest," which is to say -- the commercial district from Mint to Davidson and Stonewall to 8th -- is only a square kilometer. You could make the entire area pedestrian only and, if our city was even a quarter as good for pedestrians as many major world cities, the entire Uptown commercial district would be walkable from a peripheral car park. Half a kilometer is considered the "gold standard" for TOD around a station. That means that, frankly, just the CTC/Arena station should serve the entire uptown commercial district.

When we talk about "increasing vehicular mobility" versus "improving the pedestrian experience," it must be understood in this context: we have a tiny commercial district which is so pedestrian unfriendly that people are already unwilling to walk through it. Within this space we should be calming traffic, making cars less attractive, making walking more attractive, and so on. Gluing brick to the outside of massive parking garages and putting in expensive pedestrian bridges is not the way to improve this situation.

So reducing lane widths and closing roads will solve the problem? Who will these changes benefit? Uptown should be enjoyed by all, not the upper incomes. I can't imagine why someone would want to increase barriers for someone to nagivigate uptown from the suburbs. I know people who make 40k. What apartment in uptown can they reasonably afford? Start by providing housing that's not insanely expensive. 

Edited by mpretori
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My surmise is that most people are going to drive. You can make it your life’s aim to make driving more and more miserable, but they are still going to drive. Can’t we all just get along ?

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3 minutes ago, mpretori said:

So reducing lane widths and closing roads will solve the problem? Who will these changes benefit? Uptown should be enjoyed by all, not the upper incomes. I can't imagine why someone would want to increase barriers for someone to nagivigate uptown from the suburbs. I know people who make 40k at boa. What apartment in uptown can they reasonably afford? Start by providing housing that's not insanely expensive. 

They will benefit pedestrians, cyclists, and other road users. People who might live a stop or five away on the light rail and commute into uptown and walk from the station to their $40k/year job at BoA, or who might live in lower-cost apartments in "North End" and ride their bike to work. Half a kilometer is not a long walk, and yet people are completely unwilling to walk it here in Charlotte. Why? And why does one mode of transportation -- the least efficient mode that serves the least people with the most investment -- deserve more consideration than all others?

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41 minutes ago, mpretori said:

Whether you like it or not, not everyone can afford to live in uptown and have to commute. Rents are insane in uptown. 

Simple things like looking for lunch for many of us working the northern industrial area can become a nightmare when all the street parking is eliminated for "special events", or we pull into the wrong parking deck that charges us $10 for an hour.  There are indeed MANY of us who don't live uptown and DO drive in and park just to enjoy the ambiance.  I have employees who drive down there from Statesville Ave. just to park the car and walk a couple of miles for exercise.  (It'  ain't walking friend up here and, besides they enjoy the scenery.)

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5 minutes ago, asthasr said:

They will benefit pedestrians, cyclists, and other road users. People who might live a stop or five away on the light rail and commute into uptown and walk from the station to their $40k/year job at BoA, or who might live in lower-cost apartments in "North End" and ride their bike to work. Half a kilometer is not a long walk, and yet people are completely unwilling to walk it here in Charlotte. Why? And why does one mode of transportation -- the least efficient mode that serves the least people with the most investment -- deserve more consideration than all others?

Question: out of the total number of people who work in uptown, what percentage lived in uptown. Guarantee you it's below 50. What about the handicapped with those incomes? I make good money but am not selfish to the lower income residents of this great city. We need to accommodate all, not the select. And all this over a bridge from a commuter parking lot to the office LMAO.

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15 minutes ago, mpretori said:

Question: out of the total number of people who work in uptown, what percentage lived in uptown. Guarantee you it's below 50. What about the handicapped with those incomes? I make good money but am not selfish to the lower income residents of this great city. We need to accommodate all, not the select. And all this over a bridge from a commuter parking lot to the office LMAO.

A few points.

  1. Why does nobody live in uptown? Part of it is that there isn't enough housing built there. The for-sale options are ridiculously small and/or overpriced, and rentals are too expensive. The way that this will be fixed is to build more housing.
  2. Wheelchair-bound people should be served by transit as much as anyone else; more, in fact, because special point to point services should be provided where necessary. You can look at modern cities like Singapore and Seoul for examples of accessible transit.
  3. Cars represent a massive expense. Owning, maintaining, insuring, and fueling a car are, in effect, regressive costs. (They are far worse for lower income people than middle and upper income people.) Offering effective ways to avoid needing a car would actually make our city more useful for more people.
  4. This is not over a single pedestrian bridge. It's an entire urban design philosophy. In essence, those of us who are in favor of improving the pedestrian/biking experience believe that we can increase the return on investment and value of our downtown core by focusing on those people who are intense users of the downtown core. That can include commuters, but it should not include commuters to the exclusion of all others. I live in a suburb; I expect to be able to use the downtown area, but I don't expect Stonewall or Tryon to allow me to travel 45 miles per hour through downtown.
Edited by asthasr
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