Legacy Union (former Charlotte Observer redevelopment)

[urbanlover568]

5 minutes ago, CLT_sc said:

I wish i could see a model or pics of what LU will look like at full build out.   Until we see the residential or hospitality aspects of this project, I’m not sure I can compare this to Nashville Yards one way or the other. The BofA tower at LU is ok, the lighting makes it much more palatable.  The street level on Tryon leading to the lobby is great.  The Deloitte building looks great for a number of reasons....primarily, it fits the footprint really well. Honeywell could be better, I have never been a fan of it.  For street level impact, the jury is out until we see what fronts Stonewall and how it ties into DEC 1 etc...  And, keep in mind, The footprint of Nashville Yards is 60% larger.  But, to date, the buildings in Nashville Yard are a yawn.

But, to globally say Charlotte is throwing up garbage buildings compared to others is out of left field.  DEC2 is a great building, the Intercontinental looks awesome, Dimension Fund is a great design as is the new Portman building at SouthEnd.  The new Lowe’s Building will be cool and if the Library looks anything close to the pics, it is a home run.  There are more in Charlotte, but trying to keep this thread on topic.

I think you are taking my comments personally for some reason. I actually complimented this development, really getting irritated that you are throwing words in my mouth.  If the criteria to post in here is to be 100% positive and not to compare of try to envision a better development, then that's BS.

Edited December 22, 2019 by mpretori

[CLT_sc]

18 minutes ago, mpretori said:

I think you are taking my comments personally for some reason. I actually complimented this development, really getting irritated that you are throwing words in my mouth.  If the criteria to post in here is to be 100% positive and not to compare of try to envision a better development, then that's BS.

No reason to get irritated, the last paragraph was not directed towards your comments.  And, no I’m not taking anything you say personally.  

The goal is not always to be positive, but I do think writing vague comments about the economies of Orlando, Austin and Nashville in the LU thread on the heels of some saying we are trailing them badly is an odd ball post.  

LU is a tight project that doesn’t have the luxury of land.  What will it look like at full buildout, I’m not sure, I wish I could see.  I think the challenge at LU is linking this project to existing areas of downtown and not creating 100’ wide green areas around the buildings.  I want to see a lot of tight towers in this area which flow towards the stadium area, S Tryon, and SouthEnd.  I hope to see 3-4 buildings on Stonewall, maybe setting them back a little from the corner of S Tryon and Stonewall.  LU need some residential and hospitality buildings.

[urbanlover568]

8 minutes ago, CLT_sc said:

No reason to get irritated, the last paragraph was not directed towards your comments.  And, no I’m not taking anything you say personally.  

The goal is not always to be positive, but I do think writing vague comments about the economies of Orlando, Austin and Nashville in the LU thread on the heels of some saying we are trailing them badly is an odd ball post.  

LU is a tight project that doesn’t have the luxury of land.  What will it look like at full buildout, I’m not sure, I wish I could see.  I think the challenge at LU is linking this project to existing areas of downtown and not creating 100’ wide green areas around the buildings.  I want to see a lot of tight towers in this area which flow towards the stadium area, S Tryon, and SouthEnd.  I hope to see 3-4 buildings on Stonewall, maybe setting them back a little from the corner of S Tryon and Stonewall.  LU need some residential and hospitality buildings.

Every major city that has no state tax is booming, that doesn't mean that Charlotte is not. Charlotte has created a city that millennials WANT to be at, even if they pay a little more. I will say that this development is a good development, but it's severely lacking ground level entertainment. Maybe when residential comes, there might be. But that's speculation for now. I was just there and the buildings were great. The parking deck was for sure a eye sore, but will be surrounded by buildings soon,  and nothing to do on the ground level unless you call sitting on a bench something to do.  I wish the developer could have looked to Asheville's CBD or Epicenter for more inspiration. 

Edited December 22, 2019 by mpretori

[Dale]

3 hours ago, CLT_sc said:

I wish i could see a model or pics of what LU will look like at full build out.   Until we see the residential or hospitality aspects of this project, I’m not sure I can compare this to Nashville Yards one way or the other. The BofA tower at LU is ok, the lighting makes it much more palatable.  The street level on Tryon leading to the lobby is great.  The Deloitte building looks great for a number of reasons....primarily, it fits the footprint really well. Honeywell could be better, I have never been a fan of it.  For street level impact, the jury is out until we see what fronts Stonewall and how it ties into DEC 1 etc...  And, keep in mind, The footprint of Nashville Yards is 60% larger.  But, to date, the buildings in Nashville Yard are a yawn.

But, to globally say Charlotte is throwing up garbage buildings compared to others is out of left field.  DEC2 is a great building, the Intercontinental looks awesome, Dimension Fund is a great design as is the new Portman building at SouthEnd.  The new Lowe’s Building will be cool and if the Library looks anything close to the pics, it is a home run.  There are more in Charlotte, but trying to keep this thread on topic.

Nobody’s saying that Charlotte is throwing up garbage buildings. DEC 2 and Belk have promise. But I think it’s okay to say that, design-wise, this boom is yielding pretty ordinary stock. And I believe that many, if not most, would admit to being roundly disappointed in what Lincoln-Harris and Crescent have produced.

[King of the Queen City]

[j-man]

But tbh I kind of agree. Charlotte is like the epitome of high demand, and low quality. It’s like architects design buildings here knowing that it doesn’t take much effort for the designs to be approved because there really isn’t that much of an expectation. It’s more about the function. Literally out of all the “beautiful” and shining new buildings that have been built in the last few years I don’t see one of them as unique. People are starting to view Charlotte like New York in the sense that there are lots of large buildings being put up and that then creates a sense of “city life” though Charlotte  is nowhere near as dense or urban as NYC. And tbh it’s an American thing I feel because cities around the world or even smaller more cultural cities in the US build with a sense of place and aesthetic but in places that are growing and are seen as new hot spots like Austin, Atlanta, and Charlotte developers are just building structures more for use and getting a quick buck out of them rather than for a long term goal to benefit the city or look appealing to the city’s identity. And I hate to say it but no person can really tell or say what is unique about Charlotte so they just build whatever they want.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, j-man said:

But tbh I kind of agree. Charlotte is like the epitome of high demand, and low quality. It’s like architects design buildings here knowing that it doesn’t take much effort for the designs to be approved because there really isn’t that much of an expectation. It’s more about the function. Literally out of all the “beautiful” and shining new buildings that have been built in the last few years I don’t see one of them as unique. People are starting to view Charlotte like New York in the sense that there are lots of large buildings being put up and that then creates a sense of “city life” though Charlotte  is nowhere near as dense or urban as NYC. And tbh it’s an American thing I feel because cities around the world or even smaller more cultural cities in the US build with a sense of place and aesthetic but in places that are growing and are seen as new hot spots like Austin, Atlanta, and Charlotte developers are just building structures more for use and getting a quick buck out of them rather than for a long term goal to benefit the city or look appealing to the city’s identity. And I hate to say it but no person can really tell or say what is unique about Charlotte so they just build whatever they want.

This is so incorrect. The "lack of quality" has more to with the cheap price per square feet for office space uptown, juxtaposed to the very very high cost of construction, materials, labor and land. 

Edited December 23, 2019 by Guest

[urbanlover568]

1 minute ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

This is so incorrect. The "lack of quality" has more to with the cheap price per square feet for office space uptown, and the very very high cost of construction, materials, labor and land. 

#Inflation

[Hushpuppy321]

On 12/22/2019 at 11:24 AM, atlrvr said:

Nashville's Gulch/Nashville Yards and West End from yesterday morning.  Seeing a lot of new beige and all glass.

There's nice stuff going up, but mostly something reminiscent of our JW Marriott here.

I don’t know about you guys but I’m pretty impressed with this picture of Nashville’s ‘Hot’ Neighborhoods.  Their growth is very decent and definitely rivals Charlotte’s growth in terms of sheer number of projects and construction dollars being spent. 

I like Charlotte’s continual growth in sheer terms of number of office and residential projects being built, I like Charlotte’s height and I like Charlotte Growth & Investment into rapid transit (Lightrail/BRT), etc.  

[CLT_sc]

I haven’t seen the numbers, so I could be off, but it does seem like Nashville and Austin are seeing more high rise residential and hotels than we have been seeing in CLT.  Hopefully, LU 3,4,5,6,&7 (I’m optimistic), will contain a lot of residential/hotel.  Or, maybe a Four Seasons with residential on top.  

[j-man]

10 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

This is so incorrect. The "lack of quality" has more to with the cheap price per square feet for office space uptown, juxtaposed to the very very high cost of construction, materials, labor and land. 

But still. I feel like the quality that I’m talking about has to do with looking appealing or serving certain functions. Charlotte is also starting to build many buildings on top of mega parking decks above ground and I think that it is soooo tacky. Ascent, LU3, and FNB tower. There are ways that those buildings could have been designed better. And look at the initial designs of Intercontinental Hotel and  Museum Tower apartments among other building that were planned to look nice but ended up just a square, blue glass box. 

Edited December 24, 2019 by j-man

[Desert Power]

9 hours ago, CLT_sc said:

I haven’t seen the numbers, so I could be off, but it does seem like Nashville and Austin are seeing more high rise residential and hotels than we have been seeing in CLT.  Hopefully, LU 3,4,5,6,&7 (I’m optimistic), will contain a lot of residential/hotel.  Or, maybe a Four Seasons with residential on top.  

I think the office driven nature of Charlotte's current development causes a lot of this type of commentary, agreed.  It doesn't help that our residential has not been very good looking recently....some nice looking condos last cycle.

That all said, it is credit to what Charlotte has done in building entertainment, residential, and accessibility into our dense office park that we are even compared to cities like Nashville and Austin.  I've at times compared Uptown to SF's FiDi and Canary Wharf....large 9-5 groupings of high-rises.   That has been changing quickly, even if the tallest growth on the skyline are relatively meh or we don't have a new tallest.

Charlotte is growing into a powerhouse.

Edited December 24, 2019 by Desert Power

[JorgiPorgi]

3 hours ago, j-man said:

But still. I feel like the quality that I’m talking about has to do with looking appealing or serving certain functions. Charlotte is also starting to build many buildings on top of mega parking decks above ground and I think that it is soooo tacky. Ascent, LU3, and FNB tower. There are ways that those buildings could have been designed better. And look at the initial designs of Intercontinental Hotel and  Museum Tower apartments among other building that were planned to look nice but ended up just a square, blue glass box. 

I'm not sure where you are going with this. Charlotte is building exactly what is needed, functionally and Aesthetically. There is not one building in Austin, and especially Nashville that can compare to BOA or DEC. Hearst is certainly a tall iconic building as well. Charlotte built it's icons In the past few decades. Now, it is getting what it has desperately needed, with Infill. Infill is going to be mostly shorter to medium sized boxes. Looking at Charlotte's core, it is denser, and Fuller than Nashville and especially Austin's skyline. I love Austin, and what Nashville has done outside of it's core into it's surrounding neighborhoods is certainly impressive. But there is nothing that we really need to complain about right now. Charlotte is exploding with Infill and still building 600 foot towers that aren't even residential. I loathe the 5-7 story stick built apartments being built, but those are being built in most growing cities right now. 

In Conclusion-  Charlotte isn't lacking in Iconic and tall architecture. We are leaps and bounds ahead of most southern cities in that regard. We do need to catch up in infill, and that is exactly what we are doing. I'm so happy for what this city has accomplished and is continuing to do. Picking apart the infill because it isn't as "iconic" as it could be, is just silly at this point. 

[TheOneRJ]

12 hours ago, CLT_sc said:

I haven’t seen the numbers, so I could be off, but it does seem like Nashville and Austin are seeing more high rise residential and hotels than we have been seeing in CLT.  Hopefully, LU 3,4,5,6,&7 (I’m optimistic), will contain a lot of residential/hotel.  Or, maybe a Four Seasons with residential on top.  

That’s because Austin and Nashville are playing catch up. And by the time they do, Charlotte will be 10+ years ahead in development again. 

[Guest]

But still. I feel like the quality that I’m talking about has to do with looking appealing or serving certain functions. Charlotte is also starting to build many buildings on top of mega parking decks above ground and I think that it is soooo tacky. Ascent, LU3, and FNB tower. There are ways that those buildings could have been designed better. And look at the initial designs of Intercontinental Hotel and  Museum Tower apartments among other building that were planned to look nice but ended up just a square, blue glass box. 

All fell victim to the exact factors I mentioned. All of them.


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[j-man]

18 hours ago, JorgiPorgi said:

I'm not sure where you are going with this. Charlotte is building exactly what is needed, functionally and Aesthetically. There is not one building in Austin, and especially Nashville that can compare to BOA or DEC. Hearst is certainly a tall iconic building as well. Charlotte built it's icons In the past few decades. Now, it is getting what it has desperately needed, with Infill. Infill is going to be mostly shorter to medium sized boxes. Looking at Charlotte's core, it is denser, and Fuller than Nashville and especially Austin's skyline. I love Austin, and what Nashville has done outside of it's core into it's surrounding neighborhoods is certainly impressive. But there is nothing that we really need to complain about right now. Charlotte is exploding with Infill and still building 600 foot towers that aren't even residential. I loathe the 5-7 story stick built apartments being built, but those are being built in most growing cities right now. 

In Conclusion-  Charlotte isn't lacking in Iconic and tall architecture. We are leaps and bounds ahead of most southern cities in that regard. We do need to catch up in infill, and that is exactly what we are doing. I'm so happy for what this city has accomplished and is continuing to do. Picking apart the infill because it isn't as "iconic" as it could be, is just silly at this point. 

My statements have nothing to do with any iconic structures. If anything it’s just about the quality of all the structures. Just seems like they all look so underwhelming. Yes Charlotte is building what it needs I was just speaking to how far certain cities architecture seems and how average the new construction in Charlotte is in comparison. 

11 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

All fell victim to the exact factors I mentioned. All of them.


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What do you mean? 

On 12/23/2019 at 2:01 PM, CLT_sc said:

I haven’t seen the numbers, so I could be off, but it does seem like Nashville and Austin are seeing more high rise residential and hotels than we have been seeing in CLT.  Hopefully, LU 3,4,5,6,&7 (I’m optimistic), will contain a lot of residential/hotel.  Or, maybe a Four Seasons with residential on top.  

If anything Charlotte needs more attractions so hopefully there could be like a museum or something in one of those slots. Idk it’s been years since Charlotte added anything fun to Uptown.

Edited December 25, 2019 by j-man

[videtur quam contuor]

 

  23 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

All fell victim to the exact factors I mentioned. All of them.


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What do you mean? 

Merry Christmas to all:

 

I think what he means is that office rents here are not high enough to support the cost of highest quality distinctive building and demand for space is not diverse enough and the entire process is squeezed by the expense of property and building which leads to a value calculation on every project. Developers are caught by both ends, cost of building and budget of client. And clients who risk more on a distinctive building, perhaps self-financing, are not in our market currently.

[Guest]

 

  23 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:
All fell victim to the exact factors I mentioned. All of them.


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What do you mean? 
Merry Christmas to all:
 
I think what he means is that office rents here are not high enough to support the cost of highest quality distinctive building and demand for space is not diverse enough and the entire process is squeezed by the expense of property and building which leads to a value calculation on every project. Developers are caught by both ends, cost of building and budget of client. And clients who risk more on a distinctive building, perhaps self-financing, are not in our market currently.

Bingo. That’s exactly what I mean.

Let’s take Tryon Place for instance, it was very cool at the beginning, but during the time it sat in the leasing websites, without a tenant, it became too expensive to build, and frankly because of its more creative style and inefficient footprint, wasn’t getting bites. We are a banking city afterall.

Duke Energy came along and it was redesigned, Wells Fargo came along and it was redesigned again, and finally Ally came and it was redesigned again, and again, and finally we got what we have today.

My point is, boxes are the most efficient floor plan, and developers are building things so that someone will lease them. Remind me to dig up the renderings for Duke and Wells Fargo after Christmas.


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[SydneyCarton]

On 12/23/2019 at 11:53 AM, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

This is so incorrect. The "lack of quality" has more to with the cheap price per square feet for office space uptown, juxtaposed to the very very high cost of construction, materials, labor and land. 

 

In my opinion, Charlotte‘s new towers are as good or better than what its peer cities are building.

Edited December 26, 2019 by SydneyCarton

[Dale]

Being a Charlottean, I’d love to imagine that Charlotte is going to stave off Austin. But ...

[Crucial_Infra]

46 minutes ago, Dale said:

Being a Charlottean, I’d love to imagine that Charlotte is going to stave off Austin. But ...

Austin’s gonna pass Charlotte within 10 years and never look back. Nashville will never catch either. 

[JorgiPorgi]

It’s easier to do this when it’s 65 degrees out. Merry Christmas from LU2. 

[Hushpuppy321]

19 hours ago, Crucial_Infra said:

Austin’s gonna pass Charlotte within 10 years and never look back. Nashville will never catch either. 

Gonna pass Charlotte in what?  

High-Rise Residential Construction in Charlotte has no chance ever of catching/surpassing Austin - But as far as Office Construction, CLT is & will hold it’s own against Austin.  Charlotte’s a vey business oriented city.

Nashville won’t catch either I’d agree too but does definitely has a more City feel & look because it’s a lot of the Center City Buildings are spread out and more visible across the flatter (less-tree canopied) landscape than CLT.  Also - Nashville has more Interstate highways and much more tourism too.  

There was an earlier conversation on the Highways thread about NC Metro’s feeling less urban than other States Metro’s But with NC actually being much larger overall.  The massive tree canopy throughout CLT and greater NC Metro areas does tend it to give off much less of a big city feel.

Edited December 26, 2019 by Hushpuppy321

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

1 hour ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

There was an earlier conversation on the Highways thread about NC Metro’s feeling less urban than other States Metro’s But with NC actually being much larger overall.  The massive tree canopy throughout CLT and greater NC Metro areas does tend it to give off much less of a big city feel.

That's the same situation as Atlanta, at some point, the growth will surpass that as a barrier to feeling big. I also think the surface lots caused a lot of that feeling and as soon as they are developed and other parts of the city have high rises,  we will quickly feel very large.

[NCMike1990]

^^ To add to this discussion, I also think the 77 toll project (and Monroe bypass) has given Charlotte an even bigger feel. All the new signage, noise barriers, lanes etc. makes it seem more urban.