Legacy Union (former Charlotte Observer redevelopment)

[urbanlover568]

17 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

They sold Legacy 1 for 2/3 a billion dollars. I think they are now starting themselves to also dream big. 

Have you seen official specs and drafts for these "dream big" plans? 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, mpretori said:

Have you seen official specs and drafts for these "dream big" plans? 

I saw the original masterplan if that helps. Granted that was 2016

Edited February 10, 2020 by Guest

[urbanlover568]

21 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

after being in Tampa which is getting their first new office building since 1992 and San Antonio waited 30 years for one in their downtown it is funny to me we are concerned about this when the project is not even half done.  

Tampa is getting Waterstreet because of Bill Gates and Jeff Vinik, but mainly Bill Gates.  Also, waterstreet is not the same level as this development. by a longshot. 

 

Just now, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I saw the original masterplan if that helps.

What age and revision was the plan? masterplans change. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, mpretori said:

Tampa is getting Waterstreet because of Bill Gates and Jeff Vinik, but mainly Bill Gates.  Also, waterstreet is not the same level as this development. by a longshot. 

 

What age and revision was the plan? masterplans change. 

Clarified above 4 years, but I have followed this project closer than anyone not on their payroll, and probably some that are on it. I know what they have talked about publicly and privately, in regards to the future, and residential and a large hotel is part of it. I've also heard the next office tower will be developed by our old friend Brian Leary.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Guest

[urbanlover568]

1 minute ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Clarified above 4 years, but I have followed this project closer than anyone not on their payroll, and probably some that are on it. I know what they have talked about publicly and privately, in regards to the future, and residential and a large hotel is part of it. I've also heard the next office tower will be developed by our old friend Brian Leary.

Yea, that's all speculation though. Lots changes in 4 years. 

[Guest]

Just now, mpretori said:

Yea, that's all speculation though. Lots changes in 4 years. 

I'm very aware. Very educated speculation.

[urbanlover568]

3 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I'm very aware. Very educated speculation.

"Educated speculation" okay

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, mpretori said:

"Educated speculation" okay

"At the end of the day, this will be a combination of all those uses in some form or fashion," Harris said. "As we continue to see the market grow and demand grow, it’s not lost on us that there’s going to be demand for hospitality and multifamily and retail."

Edited February 10, 2020 by Guest

[urbanlover568]

2 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

"At the end of the day, this will be a combination of all those uses in some form or fashion," Harris said. "As we continue to see the market grow and demand grow, it’s not lost on us that there’s going to be demand for hospitality and multifamily and retail."

Yea, we are seeing that with 100 percent office and parking deck construction for sure. 

[CLT_sc]

47 minutes ago, mpretori said:

The only non-office development you mentioned is JW Marriott.  Maybe retail and entertainment options will be available when this completes, but that's a IF and not a CERTAINTY.  What is area is lacking is housing, that's going to increase and justify retail and other things, but that's not even confirmed yet. Most people are in the office from 8-5pm from monday through fridays so this area will be dead on the weekends and nights. 

First, we are trying to define this area of town by one or two blocks. .... this end downtown is made up of a lot more than LU and Ally.  There are contiguous blocks which contain residential, museum space, stadium space  and even convention space.  And, a stadium that is increasing usage by over 300%, most likely more.

Even with that, it make no sense to assume that with 35, 18 and 23 story towers, we won’t see hospitality. This project is not even 40% developed and it is already being criticized for things we don’t even know.  I think that is presumptuous.

But, I am happy to see a lot of interest in how this end of downtown develops.  It is an important stepping point to Southend and that emerging district of downtown.

I think it is way to early to claim that this side of town will be a ghost town after 5, and, based on what is there and what is coming, I don’t see that happening.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, CLT_sc said:

First, we are trying to define this area of town by one or two blocks. .... this end downtown is made up of a lot more than LU and Ally.  There are contiguous blocks which contain residential, museum space, stadium space  and even convention space.  And, a stadium that is increasing usage by over 300%, most likely more.

Even with that, it make no sense to assume that with 35, 18 and 23 story towers, we won’t see hospitality. This project is not even 40% developed and it is already being criticized for things we don’t even know.  I think that is presumptuous.

But, I am happy to see a lot of interest in how this end of downtown develops.  It is an important stepping point to Southend and that emerging district of downtown.

I think it is way to early to claim that this side of town will be a ghost town after 5, and, based on what is there and what is coming, I don’t see that happening.

Honestly not sure why I even bother anymore. This is a great post, thank you.

I might just keep my knowledge and ideas to media companies, and social media.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Guest

[urbanlover568]

3 minutes ago, CLT_sc said:

First, we are trying to define this area of town by one or two blocks. .... this end downtown is made up of a lot more than LU and Ally.  There are contiguous blocks which contain residential, museum space, stadium space  and even convention space.  And, a stadium that is increasing usage by over 300%, most likely more.

Even with that, it make no sense to assume that with 35, 18 and 23 story towers, we won’t see hospitality. This project is not even 40% developed and it is already being criticized for things we don’t even know.  I think that is presumptuous.

But, I am happy to see a lot of interest in how this end of downtown develops.  It is an important stepping point to Southend and that emerging district of downtown.

I think it is way to early to claim that this side of town will be a ghost town after 5, and, based on what is there and what is coming, I don’t see that happening.

So many if's and not enough happenings.

[CLT_sc]

5 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Honestly not sure why I even bother anymore. This is a great post, thank you.

Yea, the pessimism around a developing project  is like awarding game balls in the first quarter.

3 minutes ago, mpretori said:

So many if's and not enough happenings.

There are no ifs, there is a ton happening, a ton that has happened and a ton coming. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by CLT_sc

[urbanlover568]

3 minutes ago, CLT_sc said:

Yea, it’s like awarding game balls in the first quarter.

There are no ifs, there is a ton happening, a ton that has happened and a ton coming. 

I must have missed the press release of the non- office/parking deck tower. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by mpretori

[CLT_sc]

1 minute ago, mpretori said:

I must have missed the press release of the non- office/parking deck tower. 

Maybe you haven’t seen the museums, residential towers, convention center, football stadium and other contiguous blocks of a yet to be completed project.  Heck, even walk south and you have new retail happening at a great pace.  

Honestly, it feels like you’re looking for something to criticize .  There are people on this board very involved with development who are trying to walk you back from the ledge.  But, if you want to wait until the remaining 70% of this project is complete, then you will at least have something to fully discuss.

[15895]

28 minutes ago, mpretori said:

"Educated speculation" okay

Your posting patterns seem to sometimes be back-and-forth over stuff that doesn’t even offer to the conversation. This isn’t City-Data. 
 

It’s much more enjoyable to read and participate in conversations when replies, especially if in disagreement, are discussed thoughtfully with reason. As opposed to, again, a battering of posts that isn’t grounded in substance. 
 

I think this project will do a lot for uptown. It’s way too early to assess whether it will be a ghost town, but I’m nearly positive it won’t. 
 

As far as on street parking, you guys. This area is the CBD of office buildings. I think being as Charlotte was such a small city before - particularly urban Charlotte, uptown was THE place of urbanity. So I think people are trying to fit what all urbanity they value into our main CBD where the office space is. I think as urban Charlotte grows exponentially, we need to think of SouthEnd, Plaza, Midtown, Gold District, West End, Gateway, Elizabeth, etc as part of uptown or think of the these areas as a singular destination, center city. 
 

FYI, every time I visit Charlotte. I’m a little surprised how hopping it is. I lived there nearly my entire life and a couple years away, when I come back, I’m like “damn... wtf event is going on” but generally, it’s just night life... 

this development will probably be like 300 south tryon. Same type of tenants, etc. Which obviously caters to a certain demographic but that demographic makes sense for that particular spot. Looking for something more easy, Go to another part of center city. 
 

And I have to say. Of all the cities I’ve been to, their CBD of glitzy towers are such dullsville and dead outside of business hours. Even large cities, it’s nothing but a bunch of closed Potbellies and closed Subways on weekends. Uptown is pretty lively given it’s a bunch of bank towers. These towers, if nothing else, will add to the macro economics of adding more urban minded folks to our urban neighborhoods. Nearly every city, their Crown Jewels are their various neighborhoods. 
 

edit: 2 more posts from mpretori while I was typing doing exactly what I stated in the beginning of this post. Lol 

seriously though. You can sometimes cause up to 2 pages worth of back and forth and conversation, facts and stuff get buried. No bueno 

Edited February 10, 2020 by AirNostrumMAD

[CLT_sc]

12 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Honestly not sure why I even bother anymore. This is a great post, thank you.

I might just keep my knowledge and ideas to media companies, and social media.

Don’t do that....your posts on here are usually right on target.

[urbanlover568]

2 minutes ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

Your posting patterns seem to sometimes be back-and-forth over stuff that doesn’t even offer to the conversation. This isn’t City-Data. 
 

It’s much more enjoyable to read and participate in conversations when replies, especially if in disagreement, are discussed thoughtfully with reason. As opposed to, again, a battering of posts that isn’t grounded in substance. 
 

I think this project will do a lot for uptown. It’s way too early to assess whether it will be a ghost town, but I’m nearly positive it won’t. 
 

As far as on street parking, you guys. This area is the CBD of office buildings. I think being as Charlotte was such a small city before - particularly urban Charlotte, uptown was THE place of urbanity. So I think people are trying to fit what all urbanity they value into our main CBD where the office space is. I think as urban Charlotte grows exponentially, we need to think of SouthEnd, Plaza, Midtown, Gold District, West End, Gateway, Elizabeth, etc as part of uptown or think of the these areas as a singular destination, center city. 
 

FYI, every time I visit Charlotte. I’m a little surprised how hopping it is. I lived there nearly my entire life and a couple years away, when I come back, I’m like “damn... wtf event is going on” but generally, it’s just night life... 

this development will probably be like 300 south tryon. Same type of tenants, etc. Which obviously caters to a certain demographic but that demographic makes sense for that particular spot. Looking for something more easy, Go to another part of center city. 
 

And I have to say. Of all the cities I’ve been to, their CBD of glitzy towers are such dullsville and dead outside of business hours. Even large cities, it’s nothing but a bunch of closed Potbellies and closed Subways on weekends. Uptown is pretty lively given it’s a bunch of bank towers. 
 

edit: 2 more posts from mpretori while I was typing doing exactly what I stated in the beginning of this post. Lol 

Lol I'll say this developer could have done better and should have. I'm not going to stop giving a opinion because you don't like it. Tampa's water Street and Miami's Brickell is a true success story. This is just a office development for the time being. Until I see a press release of a non-office tower my opinion stands. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, mpretori said:

Lol I'll say this developer could have done better and should have. I'm not going to stop giving a opinion because you don't like it. Tampa's water Street and Miami's Brickell is a true success story. This is just a office development for the time being. Until I see a press release of a non-office tower my opinion stands. 

meanwhile you are mentioning a project that won't be fully realized until 2027, just because you've seen glitzy renderings. 

[urbanlover568]

6 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

meanwhile you are mentioning a project that won't be fully realized until 2027, just because you've seen glitzy renderings. 

What are you talking about? Waterstreet is under construction and actually has press releases and start dates.  Unlike this development where we are wishing away for non-office development.

www1.warrington.ufl.edu/centers/cres/events/2019_trends/docs/reshaping-communities-a-conversation-about-water-street-tampa-and-babcock-ranch.pdf

[Guest]

What are you talking about? Waterstreet is under construction and actually has press releases and start dates.  Unlike this development where we are wishing away for non-office development.
www1.warrington.ufl.edu/centers/cres/events/2019_trends/docs/reshaping-communities-a-conversation-about-water-street-tampa-and-babcock-ranch.pdf

And a build out of 7 more years. The only difference is one person feels the need to market it more, and the other, it’s not their style.


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[urbanlover568]

Just now, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

 

And a build out of 7 more years. The only difference is one person feels the need to market it more, and the other, it’s not their style.


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LOL NEVER heard that before. But OKAY. Still waiting for that non-office tower PR from LH. 

[Guest]

LOL NEVER heard that before. But OKAY. Still waiting for that non-office tower PR from LH. 

Well luckily you should be waiting too much longer.


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[urbanlover568]

Just now, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Well luckily you should be waiting too much longer.


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I will be GLAD to be wrong WHEN/IF that happens. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by mpretori

[Guest]

“The Strategic Property Partners chief executive officer listed the ways the Water Street project — a joint venture of Tampa Bay Lightning owner Jeff Vinik and Microsoft founder Bill Gates — will be a big deal when completed in 2026 or 2027”


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