Legacy Union (former Charlotte Observer redevelopment)

[RANYC]

16 minutes ago, RANYC said:

I've been on the Main Streets of tiny american towns with more street level vibrancy than many parts of uptown.  They've a fraction of the nearby residences that we have in uptown Charlotte and South-End, and yet pull off quite a bit of street-level vitality.  Have seen the same in town after town and hamlet after hamlet in Europe.  Not big populations, but vibrant and walkable commercial corridors, almost like small-scale pedestrian malls, contributing to small-town bustle.  This is about an inviting streetscape that makes people tread paths and linger awhile - yes, a downtown streetscape design and set of ground-level interactions that make people want to linger awhile.  If that's the design focus, rather than stacking bodies or hotel rooms or offices, then you'll get the activity you want.

I'm optimistic about what's happening at 101 Independence.  There's a prime example of street-level activation of what was once a very dense office building - but irrespective of that vertical population density, the streetscape was largely barren and certainly not "Linger-worthy."  Now with the changes being made, I'm more optimistic about the vibrancy potential of that block - of course now they'll need to get the space leased up again.  My simple point is that no matter how tall the building and no matter how full of uses, if the ground-level isn't engaging, you can still end up with a dead block.  And vice versa, you can have a low-rise or single story building in uptown, and end up with a block that's as engaging as hell. 

Optimist Hall yet another example worthy of study.  I love adaptive reuse and the place-making they've tried to engender, but Brevard in that area isn't really inviting for walking considering car speeds.  And so I engage with Optimist Hall from the parking lot.  There's really no streetscape vitality around it - and probably that was never the intention.  Compare that to core Noda at the intersection of Davidson and 36th street.  Buildings right up against the streetscape creating a suitable space for strolling and taking in a panoply of ground-level uses.  I'd love to see that core NODA vibe all around Charlotte - the pedestrian mall concept of dense, ground-level uses.  I've included a picture of NODA's "stroll-worthy streetscape."  I wish Charlotte had 100x stretches like this in every one of its "districts."  I'm hopeful Plaza-Midwood will get it with the Crosland Central Square project.  South End sort of has it along Camden.  I was hopeful that West End might get it with Savona Mill, but looks like it will just be an office building and not a "stroll district."

Edited June 8, 2021 by RANYC

[Blue_Devil]

4 minutes ago, RANYC said:

Optimist Hall yet another example worthy of study.  I love adaptive reuse and the place-making they've tried to engender, but Brevard in that area isn't really inviting for walking considering car speeds.  And so I engage with Optimist Hall from the parking lot.  There's really no streetscape vitality around it - and probably that was never the intention.  Compare that to core Noda at the intersection of Davidson and 36th street.  Buildings right up against the streetscape creating a suitable space for strolling and taking in a panoply of ground-level uses.  I'd love to see that core NODA vibe all around Charlotte - the pedestrian mall concept of dense, ground-level uses.  

But everything you are talking about caters to a pre-existing population or was built for a pre-existing population. Uptown does not have that. What Uptown has (had) was 150,000 office workers coming in looking for lunch, and 15,000 people who lived in the general vicinity. You bump up the numbers, and there are going to be a lot more people looking for dinner, nightlife, and retail. Many of the local areas where people commute from already have local strips to go, with street level activity. You mention Noda, why are people going to leave their community where they can walk to food and fun, to drive to Uptown? Uptown needs residential, dense residential, and what you are asking for will be built due to demand. Streets that don't have to will exist, but a lot of the current areas with retail that are empty, or not used past 5 will start getting used, making the whole area feel lively. 

[RANYC]

10 minutes ago, Blue_Devil said:

But everything you are talking about caters to a pre-existing population or was built for a pre-existing population. Uptown does not have that. What Uptown has (had) was 150,000 office workers coming in looking for lunch, and 15,000 people who lived in the general vicinity. You bump up the numbers, and there are going to be a lot more people looking for dinner, nightlife, and retail. Many of the local areas where people commute from already have local strips to go, with street level activity. You mention Noda, why are people going to leave their community where they can walk to food and fun, to drive to Uptown? Uptown needs residential, dense residential, and what you are asking for will be built due to demand. Streets that don't have to will exist, but a lot of the current areas with retail that are empty, or not used past 5 will start getting used, making the whole area feel lively. 

I know people who commute in from their humdrum existences in forested suburbs all  over south charlotte and unincorporated meck county to engage in nightlife delights in South End.  My point is that Uptown should pursue street-level activation now, not after another X number of residents.  Uptown can be and should be a destination.  I'll never forget years ago when Jax, FL downtown boosters used to say you need a critical mass of 10,000 residents downtown to get true vibrancy.  Charlotte has 15,000 and what do we need, 20,000, 25,000, is that the magic number?  Downtown Asheville has what, 13,000 residents?  My point is that even if uptown keeps adding bodies in apartment units sitting atop parking garages, we'll still see Charlotte's streetscape under-performing and waiting for the next X number of residents.  Sorry, but I contend this is largely a design (and branding) issue, not a population one.  Yes, more people calling uptown home can help, but Charlotte's "STREETSCAPE STROLL-worthiness" will continue to under-perform.  Again, that's why exciting by what the new owners at 101 independence decided to do, and hope we see more of that all over uptown, even off Tryon.

 

Edited June 8, 2021 by RANYC

[Blue_Devil]

11 minutes ago, RANYC said:

I know people who commute in from their humdrum existences in forested suburbs all  over south charlotte and unincorporated meck county to engage in nightlife delights in South End.  My point is that Uptown should pursue street-level activation now, not after another X number of residents.  Uptown can be and should be a destination.  I'll never forget years ago when Jax, FL downtown boosters used to say you need a critical mass of 10,000 residents downtown to get true vibrancy.  Charlotte has 15,000 and what do we need, 20,000, 25,000, is that the magic number?  Downtown Asheville has what, 13,000 residents?  My point is that even if uptown keeps adding bodies in apartment units sitting atop parking garages, we'll still see Charlotte's streetscape under-performing and waiting for the next X number of residents.  Sorry, but I contend this is largely a design (and branding) issue, not a population one.  Yes, more people calling uptown home can help, but Charlotte's "STREETSCAPE STROLL-worthiness" will continue to under-perform.  Again, that's why exciting by what the new owners at 101 independence decided to do, and hope we see more of that all over uptown, even off Tryon.

 

And what I am saying is, you have to have businesses to fill them that seek that engagement. And they aren't coming, because the population isn't there. They stay in their already built up side communities like SouthEnd, NODA, or Plaza Midwood. There were vacant shops all over uptown, before covid, because unless it was an office building people didn't want to come to the area. Businesses won't come just because you put storefronts out, or else the area around theHornets arena would be filled. Instead its all empty shops. And it was before Covid. Stonewall is moderately successful because there are hotels, apartments, dense office, and a stadium. A grocery was built, there are higher end services like nail salons, hair dressers, and gyms, with some restaurants thrown in. You put in more apartments, more businesses will will fill the area up. But those businesses came, during covid, because there was a pre-existing population, who was demanding more walkable engagement. Uptown is not as dense as it should be compared to European cities like you mention. We should be encouraging everything from B-tower style development, condos and apartments all over Uptown. 

[TCLT]

1 hour ago, RANYC said:

I know people who commute in from their humdrum existences in forested suburbs all  over south charlotte and unincorporated meck county to engage in nightlife delights in South End.  My point is that Uptown should pursue street-level activation now, not after another X number of residents.  Uptown can be and should be a destination.  I'll never forget years ago when Jax, FL downtown boosters used to say you need a critical mass of 10,000 residents downtown to get true vibrancy.  Charlotte has 15,000 and what do we need, 20,000, 25,000, is that the magic number?  Downtown Asheville has what, 13,000 residents?  My point is that even if uptown keeps adding bodies in apartment units sitting atop parking garages, we'll still see Charlotte's streetscape under-performing and waiting for the next X number of residents.  Sorry, but I contend this is largely a design (and branding) issue, not a population one.  Yes, more people calling uptown home can help, but Charlotte's "STREETSCAPE STROLL-worthiness" will continue to under-perform.  Again, that's why exciting by what the new owners at 101 independence decided to do, and hope we see more of that all over uptown, even off Tryon.

 

What are retail rents like in uptown compared to asheville or southpark or matthews or some backwoods hamlet? There’s only so many Ruth’s Chris that uptown can accommodate. Either rents need to come down to allow more varied retail or you need a lot more residents to support higher price point retail at volume right?

Edited June 8, 2021 by TCLT
wrong quote

[RANYC]

57 minutes ago, TCLT said:

What are retail rents like in uptown compared to asheville or southpark or matthews or some backwoods hamlet? There’s only so many Ruth’s Chris that uptown can accommodate. Either rents need to come down to allow more varied retail or you need a lot more residents to support higher price point retail at volume right?

Uptown has a market for retail.  Plenty of us in center city would do all kinds of shopping in uptown if it's opened up and compellingly designed.  I'm in wesley heights and I drive to Southpark and other places to shop - but would gladly walk from storefront to storefront in uptown for a number of my needs.  But given a big chunk of uptown retail space is found in an inaccessibly-designed vacuum like Overstreet mall, well then I'm not as inclined.  Tryon is largely full of lobbies - although yes that's slowly changing.  Church Street isn't really walkable, with cars zooming by and with sidewalks that are quite narrow relative to the speeds of adjacent motorists...not to mention all the garages lining Church - so not very walk-inducing. 

And by the way, what about Brevard Court - instead of a charming cluster of shops and boutiques lining an uptown streetscape, instead the cluster sort of caves into the interior of the block, almost like a nod to the fact that storefronts and bar-fronts can't possibly front the street (Church street in this case), because that street is too much of a race track.  Still think design is a huge part of the problem...and maybe that design is just a reflection of the culture here and who am I to change it?

I will concede that you can keep piling on bodies and eventually retail will have no choice but to make it work in uptown.  But again, you'll be underperforming.  50,000 bodies needed to support a certain amount of retail vibrancy in uptown, might be more like 15,000 or 20,000 bodies for that same measure of retail vibrancy, if that retail is inherently designed to prioritize pedestrians, to invite the streetscape, to promote place-making, and ultimately to encourage "the stroll."

Edited June 8, 2021 by RANYC

[KJHburg]

2 hours ago, TCLT said:

What are retail rents like in uptown compared to asheville or southpark or matthews or some backwoods hamlet? There’s only so many Ruth’s Chris that uptown can accommodate. Either rents need to come down to allow more varied retail or you need a lot more residents to support higher price point retail at volume right?

to quote a gentleman from NYC who ran for Governor  once

[ORIGINAL] The Rent is Too Damn High! - YouTube

I have told just recently influential people that there is needs to be pop up retail and some sort of retail subsidies as there is way too much vacant ground floor retail space in uptown.   And that was before Covid.  Space across from Ink and Ivy has been vacant for 2 years.  Save the axe throwing place at the parking deck across from Spectrum center on 5th all vacant for years.  How about some short term leases and lower rents to get some tenants in there?  Charlotte Center City Partners need to work on this asap. Retail is an amenity for office building owners just like balconies or gyms which make no money either?  Is not some money coming in better than ZERO revenue?  and yes there are only so many high end restaurants, bubble tea rooms or chain coffeehouses in the market.     Uptown landlords when they advertise their rental rates they rival the best shopping centers in the city but don't have the foot traffic others do.  

Office tower owners make their money and mortgage payments off the office tenants not the retail so that is why they keep it vacant holding out for that "right" tenant.  I would like to see at least one developer take a chance on some local based retailers or break up their spaces into smaller ones like behind the Railyard.  

 

[j-man]

On 6/8/2021 at 3:10 PM, RANYC said:

I disagree.  It all starts with design.  We have mid and high-rise residential buildings in Charlotte, even proximal to gathering places, and the areas around them are dead as doorknobs, bereft of a density of pedestrians and of street-level vitality.  Build a huge high-rise bldg with no ground-level retail, then yes it will be nice having additional bodies living in Uptown, but the bldg's presence won't mean you've got a vibrant district.  Thankfully, Crescent's own additions may be compelling enough to spill over to whatever LU does, but again, we have plenty of examples in Charlotte where stacking bodies doesn't mean a vibrant streetscape.

My point has more to do with the proximity to the stadium and all of the workers that would be in all the new buildings. So what I’m speaking of is foot traffic for games and add in residents and hotel guests to the mix and I feel like that would be vibrant. Just when the fans are coming in, there are at least a 10,000+ fans that are parked further away and have to walk right past this area to get to the stadium. I mean I think businesses would do great there. There just needs to be places that people would actually stop at. No upscale dining. I’m thinking of fast, grab and go food, and maybe some recreational things too. I mean that’s fitting for it’s location. 

[KJHburg]

It is great we have a Fortune 100 company Honeywell that chose to build its HQ in uptown Charlotte.  Also the 4th tallest building in the state and taller than anything in TN, VA or SC just saying before some of you start cutting it down.  Those balconies up at Honeywell tower must have fantastic views. 

I like it Bank of America must like it has they anchored it and Highwoods really likes it as they snapped it up for a premium. Noticed a small sundries shop inside the BOAT today when I breezed through. 

[tozmervo]

2 hours ago, KJHburg said:

It is great we have a Fortune 100 company Honeywell that chose to build its HQ in uptown Charlotte.  Also the 4th tallest building in the state and taller than anything in TN, VA or SC just saying before some of you start cutting it down.  Those balconies up at Honeywell tower must have fantastic views. 

Why would I cut it down? We need all the dehumidification we can get right now.

[DMann]

Probably. nothing, but I saw someone filming outside BOAT this morning/

[SydneyCarton]

This project is amazing, and quite possibly, the best parts of it are yet to come.  You have to love the QC!

[KJHburg]

Legacy today 3 office towers now and more to come including non office towers. 

[Mgelbach]

Out shooting for a client last night and caught one of the most amazing sunsets last night!

 

Hope everyone has an awesome weekend!

[kaimicro]

Legacy Union remaining land should be made into a Merchandise Mart like Atlanta. Redevelop the soon to be Duke land across the street and create a skybridge across.  The Merchandise Mart would have a nice hotel and shops built into the project.  This would create tons of opportunity for the Convention Center to thrive.  Can any developer out there see this vision?

[Hushpuppy321]

26 minutes ago, Mgelbach said:

Out shooting for a client last night and caught one of the most amazing sunsets last night!

 

Hope everyone has an awesome weekend!

Beautiful Sunset Indeed!

[Miesian Corners]

What's the word on the logo on the top? Did Council approve it? 

[atl2clt]

On 7/9/2021 at 8:41 AM, Mgelbach said:

Out shooting for a client last night and caught one of the most amazing sunsets last night!

 

Hope everyone has an awesome weekend!

These pictures are awesome. In the final picture, there's something about the porch/patio on the Honeywell building that makes me laugh. 

I like to imagine that the Honeywell CEO comes out on gamedays to look down upon his royal subjects. 

[videtur quam contuor]

https://www.honeywell.com/us/en/company/our-history

Mr Honeywell was a plumbing and heating contractor and inventor in Wabash, Indiana. The Minneapolis Heat Regulator Company made early thermostats. They merged in 1927.

[Matthew.Brendan]

From thermostats to a major player in Quantum computing. pretty neat.

 

https://www.wraltechwire.com/2021/07/06/quantum-computing-wars-ibm-honeywell-make-major-moves-as-competition-intensifies/

[Blue_Devil]

Legacy Union 2 is over 80% leased at this time. 

[stiluvclt]

1 hour ago, Blue_Devil said:

Legacy Union 2 is over 80% leased at this time. 

Taking into account everything that I’ve read about Mr. Harris from you guys and the print media, he probably won’t build LU4 until he has an anchor plugged in. Just sayin’.

[CLT @❤️]

Time for some new Legacy tower announcements. Another Honeywell style corporate HQ relocation maybe?

[KJHburg]

I hear rumblings of another tower an office tower at Stonewall and S Tryon 

[rancenc]

18 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

I hear rumblings of another tower an office tower at Stonewall and S Tryon 

Would that also include rumblings for a major relocation to fill that tower???