Legacy Union (former Charlotte Observer redevelopment)

[KJHburg]

New. Tower.  To.  Rise.  from the most secretive developer in the QC   thanks @QCxpat

[navigator319]

New. Tower.  To.  Rise.  from the most secretive developer in the QC   thanks [mention=31028]QCxpat[/mention]

This whole complex is giant waste so far, maybe not from a ROI standpoint, but from adding any vibrancy to uptown. I have no hope for the remaining land.

[JorgiPorgi]

3 hours ago, navigator319 said:

This whole complex is giant waste so far, maybe not from a ROI standpoint, but from adding any vibrancy to uptown. I have no hope for the remaining land.

I bet you’re fun at parties…

[15895]

12 hours ago, JorgiPorgi said:

I bet you’re fun at parties…

He’s got a point, though. 

It’s good that it brought more jobs but so far, it hasn’t really added anything to shake (uptown) Charlotte’s criticism of coming across as a sterile & soulless area. 

What vibrancy do you think this adds? They are pretty buildings and adds high paying jobs but I don’t see why that means people can say the pedestrian interaction is stinky. 
 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by AirNostrumMAD

[KJHburg]

I think you are judging the project way before it is done.  They have plenty of retail space along S Church however due the lack of workers and Covid hard to get retailers interested in that space.  There are plenty of places to build on yet to come including the corner spot.  The retail environment uptown right now is really struggling.  But to judge this project now is so premature.  and I have a prediction some of you will hate the Riverside development that I have seen a rendering of but at least Linclon Harris builds buildings on its on land unlike some others uptown. 

[CLT @❤️]

From the Panthers big preseason win over the Steelers on Friday evening. Am I the only one that has been to 3 Panther events already this season mainly to capture cool Pics of uptown? 
 

The middle pic is whooped steeler fans leaving at half time 

[Blue_Devil]

10 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I think you are judging the project way before it is done.  They have plenty of retail space along S Church however due the lack of workers and Covid hard to get retailers interested in that space.  There are plenty of places to build on yet to come including the corner spot.  The retail environment uptown right now is really struggling.  But to judge this project now is so premature.  and I have a prediction some of you will hate the Riverside development that I have seen a rendering of but at least Linclon Harris builds buildings on its on land unlike some others uptown. 

Just looking at Riversides current buildings in Chicago, I don't think there will be much retail... at least not as much as you would expect from 3 buildings, but I am okay with that because the proposed residential density will help make big retail areas like spectrum really fill out. Hopefully it has some retail though.

[SydneyCarton]

I'd really like to see a very tall condo/hotel office tower rise here.  With very tall towers springing up in NY and Chicago like weeds, there's no reason why Charlotte can't have a new tallest here.

[Diaz]

I'd really like to see a very tall condo/hotel office tower rise here.  With very tall towers springing up in NY and Chicago like weeds, there's no reason why Charlotte can't have a new tallest here.

I’d like to see that too. However there is still a lot of available land (for the right price). All over Charlotte for that matter. The need to go 900ft or more isn’t there. NY, Chicago, Seattle, etc have a fair amount of buildings in 500 - 800 ft range. I’d like to see that before or if we ever get a super tall. Also coupled with the retail/street activation many here advocate for as well. I’m all about balance.
Actually one thing I’d like is a building say 700ft+ with a legit observation deck.


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[RANYC]

1 hour ago, Diaz said:

I’d like to see that too. However there is still a lot of available land (for the right price). All over Charlotte for that matter. The need to go 900ft or more isn’t there. NY, Chicago, Seattle, etc have a fair amount of buildings in 500 - 800 ft range. I’d like to see that before or if we ever get a super tall. Also coupled with the retail/street activation many here advocate for as well. I’m all about balance.
Actually one thing I’d like is a building say 700ft+ with a legit observation deck.


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Actually, before any other super tall buildings in one corner of Uptown, I'd take 20 or so mid-rise buildings to fill in the empty lots in the heart of Uptown like at Poplar and 3rd or that annoying lot in front of Ink & Ivy, or the parking lots right along West Trade, the empty surface lots in the Brevard area that you pass when riding the Light Rail Line, and of course the wasteland-like emptiness in 1st ward.  Also hope we can tear down and replace the poorly "integrated" parking garages along Church Street.  So yea, we have plenty of filling in to do before we start boasting super tall buildings for passersby on the interstate.

What matters - what really sticks with people - is the experience they have at street-level, at ground-level.  Berlin or Munich may never have as many high-rises as we currently have, but they're internationally renowned and inspiring places to visit and celebrate, and on foot or in trains for the most part.

Edited August 30, 2021 by RANYC

[Blue_Devil]

2 minutes ago, RANYC said:

Actually, before any other super tall buildings in one corner of Uptown, I'd take 20 or so mid-rise buildings to fill in the empty lots in the heart of Uptown like at Poplar and 3rd or that annoying lot in front of Ink & Ivy, or the parking lots right along West Trade, the empty surface lots in the Brevard area that you pass when riding the Light Rail Line, and of course the wasteland-like emptiness in 1st ward.  Also hope we can tear down and replace the poorly "integrated" parking garages along Church Street.  So yea, we have plenty of filling in to do before we start boasting super tall buildings for passersby on the interstate.

Like x1,000,000. 

That said, I think we are going to start seeing a lot of infill apartment complexes over the next 5 years in those areas.

[15895]

17 hours ago, KJHburg said:

I think you are judging the project way before it is done.  They have plenty of retail space along S Church however due the lack of workers and Covid hard to get retailers interested in that space.  There are plenty of places to build on yet to come including the corner spot.  The retail environment uptown right now is really struggling.  But to judge this project now is so premature.  and I have a prediction some of you will hate the Riverside development that I have seen a rendering of but at least Linclon Harris builds buildings on its on land unlike some others uptown. 

I hear you & I understand. But I’ve had this user account on UP since 2009 & a previous one from 2005 and have religiously followed UP for pretty much up until the last couple years I moved away. 
 

I have been disappointed before many times after hearing so much “give it time” or months/years of hype, etc, so. That is why I will be skeptical until I see something good. Because ultimately, the experience NOW is basically Ballantyne Office Park whether or not they’ll add some more skyscrapers and office workers come back in the future and it magically becomes a place that isn’t devoid of life  on the weekends. 
 

I also get that it adds a lot of people, etc. just like all the projects around the baseball stadium. But hanging around the FNB building doesn’t do anything for me, even if all the office workers were to come back. But I get it. It adds more people etc. I agree. But that’s no excuse on the poor pedestrian interaction. Catalyst, and the parking decks around Romare adds vibrancy. Element and FNB do not. 

luckily, SouthEnd is getting great developments overall and is adding greatly to urban Charlotte. 
 

I personally think this project will remain a very sterile, void place and it is very different than what I imagined of what it would be initially with the Simon partnership, etc. 

 

[CLT2014]

^Completely agree! Retail is empty at Legacy Union because any business owner looks at it and goes "wow, well this is a cold, uninviting, and disconnected afterthought of a space." The special touch to Legacy Union's vibe is you can sit on a bench around the grass with 6 private security guards on every corner staring at you and watching your every move. You quickly release you should pack your lunch up and move along.... this space isn't for actual humans. 

Meanwhile across the street, retail at Ally Center and the JW Marriott is filling up.

[CLT @❤️]

Agree with @KJHBurgh, Legacy is very much in its infancy. Would it not be way too soon to judge what it will ultimately be, much like the city of Charlotte as a whole. 

A few things if I may: 

1. We continue to be in the midst of a pandemic that thus far doesn’t seem to have an end. A pandemic that for all intents and purposes has fundamentally changed the business districts of every major city in the country. 
2. Unless you are Whole Foods, Harris Teeter or Publix, (small) retail establishments are great for the neighborhood, and street level activity, but they don’t pay the real rent in a large cities BD, mega corporations that utilize class A office tower space do.
3. It seems like we would get a lot further just allowing Charlotte be Charlotte? The QC is not Berlin, Munich, Seattle, NYC,  or anywhere else, it is Charlotte, North Carolina, and CLT is still very much evolving in to who it will be. While these other cities have long ago gained their identities Charlotte is still establishing who it will ultimately be. Those other cities are cities of yesterday, today, but Charlotte is a city of today and tomorrow. And that’s pretty awesome! 
4. With “retail establishments” that continue to be decimated by Covid. (many are clients of mine), some have permanently closed, others are hanging on by a thread, and then other’s are well financed establishments, with owners and capital investors that secure their long term presence.

If we give LU development time to build out, we will see that great deal of thought went in to the final product. Look at how far it has come since this real estate was occupied by the Charlotte Observer. 
 

On Site @Legacy Today: 

Additional drilling equipment on site, gearing up for yet another tower. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by CLT @❤️

[RANYC]

26 minutes ago, CLT @ said:

Agree with @KJHBurgh, Legacy is very much in its infancy. Would it not be way too soon to judge what it will ultimately be, much like the city of Charlotte as a whole. 

A few things if I may: 

1. We continue to be in the midst of a pandemic that thus far doesn’t seem to have an end. A pandemic that for all intents and purposes has fundamentally changed the business districts of every major city in the country. 
2. Unless you are Whole Foods, Harris Teeter or Publix, (small) retail establishments are great for the neighborhood, and street level activity, but they don’t pay the real rent in a large cities BD, mega corporations that utilize class A office tower space do.
3. It seems like we would get a lot further just allowing Charlotte be Charlotte? The QC is not Berlin, Munich, Seattle, NYC,  or anywhere else, it is Charlotte, North Carolina, and CLT is still very much evolving in to who it will be. While these other cities have long ago gained their identities Charlotte is still establishing who it will ultimately be. Those other cities are cities of yesterday, today, but Charlotte is a city of today and tomorrow. And that’s pretty awesome! 
4. With “retail establishments” that continue to be decimated by Covid. (many are clients of mine), some have permanently closed, others are hanging on by a thread, and then other’s are well financed establishments, with owners and capital investors that secure their long term presence.

If we give LU development time to build out, we will see that great deal of thought went in to the final product. Look at how far it has come since this real estate was occupied by the Charlotte Observer. 
 

On Site @Legacy Today: 

Additional drilling equipment on site, gearing up for yet another tower. 

Agreed with much of what you wrote. 

"Get a lot further letting Charlotte be Charlotte" - unclear on that. 

Charlotte is a sprawling sunbelt city coming of age in an age of auto-centricity.  Many of us on this thread are uptown boosters who recognize street-level vitality with a pedestrian focus to be core to uptown's competitiveness versus other parts of the city (we're working against powerful regional forces to want this).  Plenty of other cities globally are doing and have done pedestrian focus far more effectively than Charlotte.  I hope Charlotte is cosmopolitan enough and intellectually curious enough to consider and incorporate a globe's worth of models to be the apotheosis of pedestrian-scale urban living.

Edited August 31, 2021 by RANYC

[CLT @❤️]

[Matthew.Brendan]

Nice scooter

[j-man]

On 8/30/2021 at 2:25 PM, RANYC said:

Actually, before any other super tall buildings in one corner of Uptown, I'd take 20 or so mid-rise buildings to fill in the empty lots in the heart of Uptown like at Poplar and 3rd or that annoying lot in front of Ink & Ivy, or the parking lots right along West Trade, the empty surface lots in the Brevard area that you pass when riding the Light Rail Line, and of course the wasteland-like emptiness in 1st ward.  Also hope we can tear down and replace the poorly "integrated" parking garages along Church Street.  So yea, we have plenty of filling in to do before we start boasting super tall buildings for passersby on the interstate.

What matters - what really sticks with people - is the experience they have at street-level, at ground-level.  Berlin or Munich may never have as many high-rises as we currently have, but they're internationally renowned and inspiring places to visit and celebrate, and on foot or in trains for the most part.

Couldn’t agree more!! These mega towers are nice but aren’t doing the street level any justice. None of the major skyscrapers bring much activity other than being a one stop shop for workers/office space. I think there honestly needs to be a unique residential tower with lots of retail to give LU some life. I honestly think the area is kind of dead because it’s so close to the edge of uptown and SouthEnd is really disconnected because of 277. 

[Blue_Devil]

11 hours ago, j-man said:

Couldn’t agree more!! These mega towers are nice but aren’t doing the street level any justice. None of the major skyscrapers bring much activity other than being a one stop shop for workers/office space. I think there honestly needs to be a unique residential tower with lots of retail to give LU some life. I honestly think the area is kind of dead because it’s so close to the edge of uptown and SouthEnd is really disconnected because of 277. 

I mean, the area is dead because we just went through a pandemic which prevented 1) office workers from coming in, 2) hotels from being open and then people wanting to go to those hotels after they were opened, 3) the convention center from being used, 4) fans in stadiums. 

To be honest, we have never seen this area at what it could be. Almost everything new here was finished or started during the pandemic. There are more towers coming. This is the very definition of a work in progress. Eventually it will be one of the denser concentrations of Hotel/Office/Residential/Event in the city. I would like to see it when everything is functioning as intended. 

 

[15895]

2 hours ago, Blue_Devil said:

I mean, the area is dead because we just went through a pandemic which prevented 1) office workers from coming in, 2) hotels from being open and then people wanting to go to those hotels after they were opened, 3) the convention center from being used, 4) fans in stadiums. 

To be honest, we have never seen this area at what it could be. Almost everything new here was finished or started during the pandemic. There are more towers coming. This is the very definition of a work in progress. Eventually it will be one of the denser concentrations of Hotel/Office/Residential/Event in the city. I would like to see it when everything is functioning as intended. 

 

The entire world is going through a pandemic. 
 

I just want to point out that people who think this is going to be a 9-5 Monday through Friday area is well aware it’s not at full build out and that there is a pandemic. 
 

One of my favorite projects built in Charlotte recently has been the Rail Yard, in SouthEnd. 

 

[Mid South NC]

2 hours ago, Blue_Devil said:

I mean, the area is dead because we just went through a pandemic which prevented 1) office workers from coming in, 2) hotels from being open and then people wanting to go to those hotels after they were opened, 3) the convention center from being used, 4) fans in stadiums. 

To be honest, we have never seen this area at what it could be. Almost everything new here was finished or started during the pandemic. There are more towers coming. This is the very definition of a work in progress. Eventually it will be one of the denser concentrations of Hotel/Office/Residential/Event in the city. I would like to see it when everything is functioning as intended. 

 

Amen, preach!

[j-man]

10 hours ago, Blue_Devil said:

I mean, the area is dead because we just went through a pandemic which prevented 1) office workers from coming in, 2) hotels from being open and then people wanting to go to those hotels after they were opened, 3) the convention center from being used, 4) fans in stadiums. 

To be honest, we have never seen this area at what it could be. Almost everything new here was finished or started during the pandemic. There are more towers coming. This is the very definition of a work in progress. Eventually it will be one of the denser concentrations of Hotel/Office/Residential/Event in the city. I would like to see it when everything is functioning as intended. 

 

I definitely agree but what I meant by it being dead is moreso in a sense for how large scale of a project it is and what is apart of the development, which is pretty much all office with little retail. That’s why I said I’d like to see residential and retail added to bring the life because even DE1 and other large towers don’t really bring vibrant activity. So yes I’m well aware that it is not fully built out and we are in a pandemic. 

Edited September 1, 2021 by j-man

[Hushpuppy321]

So everyone here is in general agreement that this Corner Lot at LU4  where subsurface investigative drilling is ongoing, is\will be some type of Office Tower?  Not Residential or Hotel or Mixed Use?

Edited September 2, 2021 by Hushpuppy321

[KJHburg]

Just now, Hushpuppy321 said:

So everyone here is in general agreement that this Corner Lot at LU4 is\will be some type of Office Tower?  Not Residential or Hotel or Mixed Use?

I would say so since they have planned one there from the beginning and even marketed a proposed building there.   Plenty of local tenants that might be looking like US Bank, MUFG etc. 

[Blue_Devil]

2 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

So everyone here is in general agreement that this Corner Lot at LU4 is\will be some type of Office Tower?  Not Residential or Hotel or Mixed Use?

I think the rumor was office. IF this goes office, (if it goes at all), I would imagine Hotel/Apartment comes pretty fast after, if not while this is still building... 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Blue_Devil