Legacy Union (former Charlotte Observer redevelopment)

[edmundblackadder1999]

Well maybe an 800' version of it.  I'm talking about an iconic design,  All residential towers built Uptown are heinous.  The Museum Tower is okay, but the rest are terrible.  Charlotte needs to do a better job for residentials and hotels if its skyline is to improve.

[videtur quam contuor]

Maybe Hairway to Steven. (I'll show myself out)

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, edmundblackadder1999 said:

Well maybe an 800' version of it.  I'm talking about an iconic design,  All residential towers built Uptown are heinous.  The Museum Tower is okay, but the rest are terrible.  Charlotte needs to do a better job for residentials and hotels if its skyline is to improve.

I doubt you will see a residential tower taller than the Vue any time in the next 25-30 years. You would need a full buildout of all the neighborhoods around uptown before an 800' tower would be feasible. Even then, it'd be a vanity statement by a developer. The market is no where near robust enough for vanity projects. 

Edited April 7, 2017 by Guest

[edmundblackadder1999]

4 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I doubt you will see a residential tower taller than the Vue any time in the next 25-30 years. You would need a full buildout of all the neighborhoods around uptown before an 800' tower would be feasible. Even then, it'd be a vanity statement by a developer. The market is no where near robust enough for vanity projects. 

That makes sense.  Even a 500' version of Verre would be good.

For those unfamiliar with these projects, Here are Verre and the Stairway projects.

 

[Nick2]

What about mixed use? There is obviously a strong enough market for tall skyscrapers as offices but if they were to add another 20-30 stories to something like the tower on this site for high end condos/apts, is that viable?

[J-Rob]

49 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

 

53 minutes ago, CLT704 said:

CMPD station on 7th St. 

 

 

Back to CO, I'm confused lol, what's actually going on with this tower?

;-) patience.

 

Since we are now off topic, back to CO...  RDF, are you suggesting there is something going on other than BofA being confirmed as tenant?  Aside from the police station news, I am curious if I missed something specifically related to the CO project.

[CLTProductions]

Thank god this cat is finally out of the bag 

 

http://buff.ly/2oJTZfR

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, J-Rob said:

Since we are now off topic, back to CO...  RDF, are you suggesting there is something going on other than BofA being confirmed as tenant?  Aside from the police station news, I am curious if I missed something specifically related to the CO project.

There is very certainly stuff going on with CO project. There are 3 additional towers drawn so far, so we have a lot to go. But we can all breath a sigh of relief because BofA is a confirmed tenant for 620 South Tryon, and you guys have all known for months now :-)

[CLT2014]

11 minutes ago, Jayvee said:

Thank god this cat is finally out of the bag 

http://buff.ly/2oJTZfR

I'm sure the Merrill Lynch and US Trust guys will be delighted they won't have to share the crowded elevator any longer with normal bank people at 1BAC, haha. Interesting they mentioned no net-increase in employment expected as a result and that the new office will be for client facing teammates. I'd expect the ML and UST floors at 1BAC to be vacated (and then replaced with Consumer Bank / Operations employees). I wonder where the other teams are that will be moving - maybe some Treasury teams out of Plaza, some Commercial teams out of Hearst, Business Bankers out of Plaza, etc... 

I'm guessing the amount of employees per floor will not be as dense as regular offices as most of the advisors will want a private office to speak with their clients in confidence rather than open office / cubes.

This is also a friendly, interstate exit close location for the wealthy ML and UST clients to easily exit, park, and visit their advisor (plus closer to Myers Park/Dilworth).

Will be interesting to see if they keep all of their existing square footage in the older buildings.

Edited April 7, 2017 by CLT2014

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, CLT2014 said:

I'm sure the Merrill Lynch and US Trust guys will be delighted they won't have to share the crowded elevator any longer with normal bank people at 1BAC, haha. Interesting they mentioned no net-increase in employment expected as a result and that the new office will be for client facing teammates. I'd expect the ML and UST floors at 1BAC to be vacated (and then replaced with Consumer Bank / Operations employees). I wonder where the other teams are that will be moving - maybe some Treasury teams out of Plaza, some Commercial teams out of Hearst, Business Bankers out of Plaza, etc... 

I'm guessing the amount of employees per floor will not be as dense as regular offices as most of the advisors will want a private office to speak with their clients in confidence rather than open office / cubes.

This is also a friendly, interstate exit close location for the wealthy ML and UST clients to easily exit, park, and visit their advisor (plus closer to Myers Park/Dilworth).

Will be interesting to see if they keep all of their existing square footage in the older buildings.

I wouldn't buy into the no net-increase in employment comment. I know thats not true. 

[CLT2014]

10 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I wouldn't buy into the no net-increase in employment comment. I know thats not true. 

OK that makes sense. It is also BAC so they might want to manage expectations. If anything ever goes south they might fire 1,000 people at once so going from 16,000 back to 15,000 allows them to say "we've always been constant at maintaining a headcount of 15,000 despite the layoffs, bla bla bla."

[cltbwimob]

13 minutes ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I wouldn't buy into the no net-increase in employment comment. I know thats not true. 

You can't make a comment like that and not expound upon it.  

 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, cltbwimob said:

You can't make a comment like that and not expound upon it.  

 

nothing to expound upon. There is growth plans for the employment base. Hiring, relocation, etc. I wouldn't doubt it if BofA tacks on another 200,000 sq feet to their lease. tempering expecations, as @CLT2014 said

Edited April 7, 2017 by Guest

[cltbwimob]

1 minute ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

nothing to expound upon. There is growth plans for the employment base. Hiring, relocation, etc. I wouldn't doubt it if BofA tacks on another 200,000 sq feet to their lease. tempering expecations, as @CLT2014 said

Ok...

Also since you seem to have your ear to the ground with respect to this project (and every project for that matter), have there been any rumblings of a large convention center hotel attached to the site now since HB2 is gone?

[Guest]

Just now, cltbwimob said:

Ok...

Also since you seem to have your ear to the ground with respect to this project (and every project for that matter), have there been any rumblings of a large convention center hotel attached to the site now since HB2 is gone?

This project is so complicated, that I'd say there are another 4-5 media blasts related to the entire buildout. I'm confident the entire masterplan will be out by early summer. I had a conversation with the hotel lender last week, and he doubted the 1000 room hotel possibility, just for the fact that there are so many rooms already in development. That said, back in 2002 the city chipped in $15M to help lure the Westin, and have been paying installments ever sense. They won't be giving money to Westin anymore as of the middle of the year, so I'm not going to discount the possibility. In the end the city paid more than 10% of the construction price of the Westin. Sounds like a very worthwhile investment to me. 

[kermit]

WTF is with Johnny Harris' name change? Did a 60+ year old man decide to become the "developer formerly known as Johnny"?

NM, I figured it out. Mea culpa. (its the kid)

Edited April 7, 2017 by kermit

[caterpillar2]

2 hours ago, edmundblackadder1999 said:

Well maybe an 800' version of it.  I'm talking about an iconic design,  All residential towers built Uptown are heinous.  The Museum Tower is okay, but the rest are terrible.  Charlotte needs to do a better job for residentials and hotels if its skyline is to improve.

I've been to practically all large cities in the U.S. I personally find the towers in Charlotte to be on par with those in most  other cities, better than many, but certainly not "heinous."   They may be unappealing to you, but "heinous?"   The only  building I consider as borderline heinous is the UNCC building in First Ward. 

 

Edited April 7, 2017 by caterpillar2

[jednc]

12 minutes ago, caterpillar2 said:

I've been to practically all large cities in the U.S. I personally find the towers in Charlotte to be on par with those in most  other cities, better than many, but certainly not "heinous."   They may be unappealing to you, but "heinous?"   The only  building I consider as borderline heinous is the UNCC building in First Ward. 

 

 

And maybe the Skyhouse (think that's its name...the one with Fahrenheit). Otherwise, I agree with your point 100%.

[caterpillar2]

15 minutes ago, jednc said:

And maybe the Skyhouse (think that's its name...the one with Fahrenheit). Otherwise, I agree with your point 100%.

Skyhouse is on North Tryon around 8th or 9th Street. It is the building that had a twin building just built. Anyway, I think that the Skyhouse is about average for a non-exclusive dwelling based on what I have seen going up these days. It certainly isn't that attractive but still not heinous. Maybe I just believe that using "heinous is just way too extreme. Heinous means "vile, grossly wicked, or reprehensible or abominable." That just isn't the case.  If I had to tell of a 'modern' condos or apartments that fit the heinous description, I could only think of the ones across the St. Lawrence River from Montreal that looks like a combination of slum dwellings after a massive missile attack. Does anyone know this "heinous" place?  At least Skyhouse seems to be in a good place on Tryon Street. It only has to compete with the old Barringer Hotel building as far as living quarters and the residents will help dilute the  appearance of homeless and winos around. 

Edited April 7, 2017 by caterpillar2

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, caterpillar2 said:

I think that the Skyhouse is about average for a non-exclusive dwelling based on what I have seen going up these days. It certainly isn't that attractive but still not heinous. Maybe I just believe that using "heinous is just way too extreme. Heinous means "vile, grossly wicked, or reprehensible or abominable." That just isn't the case.  If I had to tell of a 'modern' condos or apartments that fit the heinous description, I could only think of the ones across the St. Lawrence River from Montreal that looks like a combination of slum dwellings after a massive missile attack. Does anyone know this "heinous" place?  At least Skyhouse seems to be in a good place on Tryon Street. It only has to compete with the old Barringer Hotel building as far as living quarters and the residents will help dilute the  appearance of homeless and winos around. 

hes referring to Skye Condos

[edmundblackadder1999]

Heinous was extreme.  I should've referred to Clt's residential towers as extremely lame, cheap boxes.

[deleted]

Charlotte, Love it or Leave it!  

Actually, I'm totally kidding...

[KJHburg]

My thoughts on the new Bank of America 65% anchored tower at 620 S Tryon. 1. Wish it had a name of the whole project

2. I don't buy the statement no net increase in hiring.  Just like Wells doesn't really announced new jobs in Charlotte is it growing here and so is their footprint. Dittos with BAC as they have many many people that don't need to be in high cost areas where real estate is so expensive. Politically however they will not announce they would move 100s of people from lets say  from a NYC in order not to get the attention of the politicos . Dittos for Wells from the Bay area. But banks are under such cost pressures and their 2 biggest expenses are people and real estate. So if you could find the people in a place with cheaper real estate why wouldn't you do it? 

3. Leases on in other buildings. They do have an out clause for some of their space in Hearst and 5/3 Bank buildings when they sold both of them but I doubt they will use it. I would look for shrinking space elsewhere like at BOAT (not the Riverboat) but Bank of America Tower in Manhattan 1 Bryant Park. They occupied this building in 2008/2009 and they would usually sign a 10 year lease with some option to make changes. This is a $100 a sq ft building compared to maybe mid to upper 30s a foot here in Charlotte. Also they did a sale leaseback of a huge Merrill Lynch campus in the suburbs of Princeton NJ and they have an out there where they can reduce their space. Not saying it will happen but they do have options. Princeton is very expensive place to live and probably attract people to.

4. Other buildings I agree we will hear soon enough and maybe a condo tower of modest proportions due to it is still hard to get financing for them and people are still gun shy here about putting down huge deposits. We are no Miami for example. To get height to a condo tower maybe make it a podium tower aka like new 33 story Ascent apartments. I dont think we will see a building as big as the VUE anytime soon as RDF said. 

5. 1000 room hotel would require millions of dollars in subsidies. They had to have big incentives in downtown Houston to build their 1000 room Marriott Marquis with its Texas shaped lazy river.  I dont see the political will for this nor the dollars now in Charlotte.  But I could see a 300-400 room hotel easily here. The hotel groups don't like you subsidizing one of their competitors and I don't blame them. There was a fight royale over the Westin. 

Great day for Charlotte and uptown. And most of us are not surprised at all with this announcement today. 

 

[jednc]

1 hour ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

hes referring to Skye Condos

Yes!

[Dale]

2 hours ago, caterpillar2 said:

I've been to practically all large cities in the U.S. I personally find the towers in Charlotte to be on par with those in most  other cities, better than many, but certainly not "heinous."   They may be unappealing to you, but "heinous?"   The only  building I consider as borderline heinous is the UNCC building in First Ward. 

 

Agreed, I've visited most major US cities, and skyline-wise, design-wise, Charlotte punches well above its weight. And I recently recounted a conversation with a guy from Minneapolis who said he envied our skyline.