Scope Area Renovations and Redevelopment

[Ghentite]

Possible renovations would focus on improving the quality since the design limits expansion.  http://norfolklive.blogspot.com/2013/03/scope-renovations-would-focus-on.html

[vdogg]

Possible renovations would focus on improving the quality since the design limits expansion.  http://norfolklive.blogspot.com/2013/03/scope-renovations-would-focus-on.html

I read about this on the pilot and I can't for the life of me figure out why the design limits expansion. Just tear the thing down and build a new one, they have plenty of room to expand on that block. I know one concern is the admirals but I think having a new arena is worth them having to play somewhere else for 2 years. I just don't think throwing millions of dollars into an obviously outdated and inadequate building is the best way to go.

[BFG]

I don't know what else they can do to make it look appealing, considering they just renovated the place not even 10 years ago. Another coat of paint isn't going to hide the fact that it's simply outdated.

 

Would hate to see such a local icon torn down though...if only we could go back to the late-60s and tell the architects to add about 5,000 more seats or allow for expansion.....

[mistermetaj]

I read about this on the pilot and I can't for the life of me figure out why the design limits expansion. Just tear the thing down and build a new one, they have plenty of room to expand on that block. I know one concern is the admirals but I think having a new arena is worth them having to play somewhere else for 2 years. I just don't think throwing millions of dollars into an obviously outdated and inadequate building is the best way to go.

 

Tear down everything on the inside, but do not touch that dome.  It is iconic and should be landmarked.  It is the largest reinforced concrete dome in the world.  It is iconic, and should be celebrated.

[757Duke]

The conceptual master plan for the scope is now available.

 

http://www.wavy.com/dpp/news/local_news/norfolk/norfolk-scope-master-plan-unveiled

 

Power Point: http://media2.wavy.com//html/PDFs/01%20%2003-05-13%20Scope%20Master%20Plan%28VRS%204%29.pdf

[zeppelin14]

So no new seats... What a waste.

[BFG]

I'm not really impressed, unfortunately. The concourse upgrades are okay, but I doubt that's helping Scope get to the next level any more than the upgrades from a few years ago. Honestly, I'd rather see the money for the conference center go towards a state of the art arena, but I guess it's all on VB now.

 

What exactly is the point of this "Pavilion"? Is it basically just front offices for the Admirals and Seven Venues, with a few conference rooms? Would events like job fairs be held in these conference rooms the way they are at The Ted? I don't mean to prejudge, but it just seems like a lot of work for an annex that's more or less for Scope employees.

Edited March 6, 2013 by BFG

[Ghentite]

To sum it up:  http://norfolklive.blogspot.com/2013/03/details-of-scope-renovations-released.html

[VAGATOR]

I'm not really impressed, unfortunately. The concourse upgrades are okay, but I doubt that's helping Scope get to the next level any more than the upgrades from a few years ago. Honestly, I'd rather see the money for the conference center go towards a state of the art arena, but I guess it's all on VB now.

 

What exactly is the point of this "Pavilion"? Is it basically just front offices for the Admirals and Seven Venues, with a few conference rooms? Would events like job fairs be held in these conference rooms the way they are at The Ted? I don't mean to prejudge, but it just seems like a lot of work for an annex that's more or less for Scope

employees.

 

I dunno what people were expecting, if you have been inside Scope before, you realize its pretty much impossible to add more seats/luxury boxes. So the city has gone about renovating Scope at the vision of being attractive to mid-sized events/concerts like the MEAC, the high school basketball tournaments, ect. I really don't see a problem with it. If this area is to get a big time arena, Virginia Beach is going to half to build it.

[7citiesVA]

I say renovate the scope and leave it for midsized events. It has historical significance. Use the land where Military Circle currently sits to build a "Mid-town" section of the city including a new larger state of the art arena, upscale hotel, a business tower or two, and some type of urban housing (apartments, condos).  The location is central between the three cities of Norfolk, Va Beach, and Chesapeake, and it provides great interstate access for the other surrounding metro cities.  Run the light rail through connecting to the airport and you have something serious on your hands. 

 

Norfolk  could even see if Chesapeake, and Virginia beach would like to get in on the funding of the arena since it is central.  It would help with pursuing a national team also. 

[Ghentite]

I dunno what people were expecting, if you have been inside Scope before, you realize its pretty much impossible to add more seats/luxury boxes. So the city has gone about renovating Scope at the vision of being attractive to mid-sized events/concerts like the MEAC, the high school basketball tournaments, ect. I really don't see a problem with it. If this area is to get a big time arena, Virginia Beach is going to half to build it.

Agreed.  During the meeting, it was mentioned that City Council pursued expanding the Scope and moved on from it after a study showed it wasn't going to happen.  They're really only left with two options:  Don't invest in it at all and let it deteriorate while good concerts/tournaments/events bring revenue to other cities OR they can be proactive and make the building an attractive venue for years to come.  People complain that Norfolk never thinks ahead, but this is exactly what they're doing in this situation.

[virginia pe]

 

What exactly is the point of this "Pavilion"? Is it basically just front offices for the Admirals and Seven Venues, with a few conference rooms? Would events like job fairs be held in these conference rooms the way they are at The Ted? I don't mean to prejudge, but it just seems like a lot of work for an annex that's more or less for Scope employees.

 

The Pavilion is the box office. I don't know that they need all the administrative space included in the Pavilion, but they definitely need a new box office. The current box office is below the plaza level and is nearly impossible to find when walking up to Scope on the plaza level. There is just one small sign directing you downstairs. There are also severe handicap accessibility issues.

I don't mind the Pavilion, but I think it is too big. In the renderings, it competes with Scope itself.

[mikeas]

I'd really like to see them put some corporate boxes at the top of Scope and fill in the corners/ends with proper arena seating.  The roll around Corporate boxes look silly.

[brikkman]

Could someone please explain the importance of adding a park to the scope area?  Every time we look around the city is considering throwing in a park here and there in an dt that really only has 3 to 4 viable streets.  A park would do absolutely nothing for that area because there is NO foot traffic outside of something being hosted there.  That said, its a waist of money as it stands now until they can garner more activity in that area to justify yet another park.  I mean, they talk about the area of DT as if it has 100s of streets and buildings that LACKs a decent park. Parks only make sense when you have people to visit them or if you are trying to preserve something.

As far as scope is concerned, whatever. if you have followed my post over the years, you know I have been critical of scope as it stands.  Instead of opening it up to more things, it sat vacant for most of the years years ago, mean while odu constant pick up all types of acts.  Remember, Norfolk does not benefit from that venue nor do they pay taxes...

 

 

 

Its even shameful to say that graduations are even held at constant now when Norfolk isn't even producing more graduates that in years past.  That place has been for the most part mismanaged up to this point and everyone knows it.  Its tons of people who want to try and do things, but the cost is too high to even get started with the scope. That is a direction issue, lack of understanding, lack of understand the market for what scope is.  What I do know, holding the admirals for a few months out of the year and a couple of pocket conventions and guns shows aren't cutting it.  They really thought for all these years, riding off gun shows, the circus, and admiral games would be enough? Heck they just picked up the high school bball tournament and had a big press release on it a few years ago like they did something revolutionary.

 

 

 

What a crock of S***

[Ghentite]

There is movement on this project.  Phase 1 Design plans have been released.

 

http://norfolklive.blogspot.com/2013/10/phase-1-scope-renovations-to-design.html

[BFG]

I didn't know Populous was behind this. They've done a lot of the sports venues of the last 10-20 years...this at least makes me optimistic about the aesthetic look.

[lil-bear]

_{http://hamptonroads.com/2013/11/norfolk-scope-renovation-plans-works}

 

Scope Reno.

Looks Good!

[Ghentite]

This project has been quiet but there appears to be some movement.  http://norfolkliveblog.com/?p=1376

[zeppelin14]

More news on the latest plans for Scope: https://pilotonline.com/entertainment/arts/norfolk-takes-first-step-toward-major-overhaul-of-scope-arena/article_f29bbf4f-f460-5273-9bea-9ba69cd8356d.html

[BFG]

I wonder whatever happened to the upgrade plans from about two years ago? It wasn't much, but I don't recall anything happening. 

Honestly, I'm not sure how much they could do to get it close to other modern arenas. Although, I think having the same group behind Seattle's potential renovation is a good sign. Because Scope is so old, I don't see this as them competing with VB...I just don't see how much can be improved without significant work.

EDIT: I see they plan to dig underground to create more seats. There's one other issue though: Scope has no luxury boxes. The VB arena will still be the better draw, In spite of the downtown location.

Agreed that the mayor vs. mayor stuff sets us back many decades. 

Edited May 12, 2017 by BFG

[baobabs727]

4 hours ago, zeppelin14 said:

More news on the latest plans for Scope: https://pilotonline.com/entertainment/arts/norfolk-takes-first-step-toward-major-overhaul-of-scope-arena/article_f29bbf4f-f460-5273-9bea-9ba69cd8356d.html

NOW UPDATED:

"When asked by Virginian-Pilot columnist Harry Minium whether Hampton Roads could support two major arenas, Alexander replied that Scope is 'already here and needs renovation.' 'The question should be posed to Virginia Beach: Do you need to build an arena?’ the mayor added."

"Virginia Beach Mayor Will Sessoms said he wishes Norfolk the best but expects it will be 'challenging and expensive to renovate Scope.' 'I truly do not see it as competition,' Sessoms said of the possible expansion. 'We’re going to have an arena that’s going to be cutting edge and with a sufficient number of seats that concerts look for and basketball tournaments look for.'

Asked for a response to Alexander’s comments, Sessoms repeated, 'I just wish them the best.' ”

LMAO.

Mayor Kenny Williams' snark vs. Mayor Will Sessoms' cool arrogance. 

Popcorn, anyone?

No, seriously. This is everything that is wrong with this area. Good Lord help us.

 

Edited May 12, 2017 by baobabs727

[BFG]

http://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/norfolk-mayor-offers-no-apologies-to-virginia-beach-for-his/article_558bc4ac-2b7a-5553-b74b-0332740f10f1.html

In spite of the shade thrown, this article puts things in a much better perspective. Norfolk knows it won't get a team, but that doesn't mean they can't get a few more events for themselves. And with downtown booming, it makes sense to want more events there, in addition to the Beach. It does sound like a competition thing, but I see both sides of this one. Interesting that Kenny Alexander brings up Scope's age...why didn't Norfolk take care of this 25 years ago?

That said, this is really one of those times where I wish VB and Chesapeake hadn't become cities...all it's done is make things more complicated, and the potshots from Kenny and Will don't make it seem like anything will ever change.

I doubt this will cost as much as KeyArena, but it won't be cheap. Maybe naming rights and a food or hotel tax to offset some of the costs, if it happens?

Edited May 12, 2017 by BFG

[HRVT]

I just wonder how big Scope could be made. I know the seats could be ripped out, then dig down a bit and build a new seating structure. But how much is digging down 15-20 feet going to get us? I can't imagine a renovation could be done to make the arena much larger than 12K seats or so. The arena also needs to be modernized. But what exactly will Scope attract? IF (and I still think it's a big if) the arena gets built in VB, their arena will be bigger, newer, nicer, and close to the oceanfront. I can't imagine many events choosing even a heavily renovated Scope over the new VB arena. 

Though I also wonder if one of the reasons Norfolk is doing this is so they can be in prime situation if the VB arena ends up not getting built. If it does get built, I just don't see the need.

[BFG]

I like the idea of gutting the interior, and maybe somehow expanding into the concourse. However, I was there for the MEAC Championship, and as a big guy (6'1", 250 lbs.), I was pretty uncomfortable in those seats.

My guess is the new seats would be larger, which means the original ~12K capacity gets reduced a bit. Not sure how many seats a lower bowl adds...maybe 3-5K, if that much? I wonder if they could somehow add luxury boxes as well? I'll be very interested to see what this group comes up with, esp. since they're behind the project in Seattle.

[Si7i]

I'm pretty sure by digging down they would be adding a second elevated seating (deck) level. Also talked to an architect who is very familiar with the structure. Thick Interior columns were added to make the Project manager at the time feel better about the support of the structure. But in reality the structure was designed so that everything including interior columns can be removed because the outside trusses keep the entire structure supported. 

Its all about how radical the renovation  is going to be and how much money they will be willing to put into it. I could easily see the scope at 15,000 seating.

Currently there is alot of wasted space