The complete Whole Foods - Traders Joe's omni-thread

[mpchicago]

GR definitely needs to do something drastic. People have been fighting to get retail like this to come here, and it plops right down in Kentwood. They built a TJ's in an inner-city Detroit neighborhood, but the one we get goes to Kentwood? It's almost like GR is the name that attracts retailers to places that arent GR. Not holding out much hope for a Whole Foods. That will likely go in Allendale or Forest Hills.

 

 

 

All this talk about Grand Rapids vs it's suburbs is getting on my nerves.  Trader Joe's could have just as well been plopped across 28th street in the GR City limits.  It just happen's to be across the street in Kentwood.  West Elm just happens to be going up in the City of Grand Rapids.  It takes about 5 to 20 minutes depending where you are in the immediate Grand Rapids area to get from anywhere to anywhere! The city and the suburbs are so interconnected, who cares?

 

I don't think Grand Rapids is anti business. It has a vibrant and growing downtown, neighborhoods like the near west side, and East Hills are attracting a lot of businesses and residential development.  Areas in the city limits like Breton/Burton, and Knapp /Beltline are hot retail areas.  Is Grand Rapids perfect?  No, but tell me a town that's perfect.

[GRDadof3]

All this talk about Grand Rapids vs it's suburbs is getting on my nerves. Trader Joe's could have just as well been plopped across 28th street in the GR City limits. It just happen's to be across the street in Kentwood. West Elm just happens to be going up in the City of Grand Rapids. It takes about 5 to 20 minutes depending where you are in the immediate Grand Rapids area to get from anywhere to anywhere! The city and the suburbs are so interconnected, who cares?

I don't think Grand Rapids is anti business. It has a vibrant and growing downtown, neighborhoods like the near west side, and East Hills are attracting a lot of businesses and residential development. Areas in the city limits like Breton/Burton, and Knapp /Beltline are hot retail areas. Is Grand Rapids perfect? No, but tell me a town that's perfect.

I didn't say Grand Rapids or Heartwell was anti business. Those small retailers in East Hills and on Wealthy would've opened regardless of who was in office. And most of the manufacturers expanding in the city are doing so because of tax credits and programs of the Economic development office, for which the mayor doesn't administer or oversee. There is way more the mayors office could be doing to attract businesses.

[GR_Urbanist]

All this talk about Grand Rapids vs it's suburbs is getting on my nerves.  Trader Joe's could have just as well been plopped across 28th street in the GR City limits.  It just happen's to be across the street in Kentwood.  West Elm just happens to be going up in the City of Grand Rapids.  It takes about 5 to 20 minutes depending where you are in the immediate Grand Rapids area to get from anywhere to anywhere! The city and the suburbs are so interconnected, who cares?

 

I don't think Grand Rapids is anti business. It has a vibrant and growing downtown, neighborhoods like the near west side, and East Hills are attracting a lot of businesses and residential development.  Areas in the city limits like Breton/Burton, and Knapp /Beltline are hot retail areas.  Is Grand Rapids perfect?  No, but tell me a town that's perfect.

 

The big problem? Kentwood =/= Grand Rapids. GR's tax coffers doesn't benefit from big retailers locating outside of the city.

 

It's wonderful that we can get into cars and get out of dodge in 5 - 20 minutes. Would be even better if all of the people around GR could do the same thing in reverse to go to retail that within GR which isnt really expanding. East Hills small retail boutiques isn't going to make up the difference, unfortunately.

 

It's almost seems like the only retail chain that is willing to expand deep into GR (not at the very edge) is Walgreens and Family Dollar.

[x99]

I didn't say Grand Rapids or Heartwell was anti business. [snip] There is way more the mayors office could be doing to attract businesses.

 

Uh-huh.  I have yet to see Heartwell/city leaders push retailing.  3500 downtown residential units, Heritage Hill, easy highway access, and a retail desert.  Fort Worth did something interesting, keeping 5000 ramp spaces "free" after hours and on weekends.  http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/08/21/fort-worth-works-to-keep-free-after-hours-parking-downtown/  Genius.   And so easy here since the City owns gobs and gobs of the parking anyway!  Lots of other factors, but that's the kind of innovative thinking it takes to get these kind of ideal small-format retailers downtown. 

[GRDadof3]

Uh-huh.  I have yet to see Heartwell/city leaders push retailing.  3500 downtown residential units, Heritage Hill, easy highway access, and a retail desert.  Fort Worth did something interesting, keeping 5000 ramp spaces "free" after hours and on weekends.  http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2014/08/21/fort-worth-works-to-keep-free-after-hours-parking-downtown/  Genius.   And so easy here since the City owns gobs and gobs of the parking anyway!  Lots of other factors, but that's the kind of innovative thinking it takes to get these kind of ideal small-format retailers downtown. 

 

There is free parking, in the Monroe Center ramp. They keep it to just an hour though so that workers downtown don't take all the spots all day long.

 

After 5 or 6 (can't remember now), all the meters are free.

[x99]

There is free parking, in the Monroe Center ramp. They keep it to just an hour though so that workers downtown don't take all the spots all day long.

 

After 5 or 6 (can't remember now), all the meters are free.

 

True.  But would those work for a retailer that has a minimum parking availability requirement as part of the site selection process?  I doubt it.  I wonder whether city leaders have talked to any major national retailers about what it would take to get them downtown.  Not that TJ's locating on 28th street is a surprise, but I hope the "powers that be" haven't just thrown in the towel on downtown retail.

[mpchicago]

I didn't say Grand Rapids or Heartwell was anti business. Those small retailers in East Hills and on Wealthy would've opened regardless of who was in office. And most of the manufacturers expanding in the city are doing so because of tax credits and programs of the Economic development office, for which the mayor doesn't administer or oversee. There is way more the mayors office could be doing to attract businesses.

 

Frankly I don't know anything about Heartwell, and whether or not he is out beating the bushes for economic development.  Yes, he is the face of the city, but he's really just a city commissioner when you get down to it.  I do know the city has an economic development office run by Kara Wood. I think the city manager's office works in conjunction with her on development.    Regardless, Heartwell is out.  Maybe the new mayor will be a little more out front on these issues.  

 

What else could the "mayors office" be doing in your opinion? 

[wingbert]

You know, in a general sense I’m happy for the Grand Rapids area that Trader Joe’s is coming to town.  However…

 

Trader Joe’s is coming!  Awesome!

 

They’re building it in Kentwood in the Beltline/28^th St./East Paris/29^th St. nexus where horrendous driving skills meet massive traffic flows!  … [crickets] … anyone?  Cue the failure horns from The Price is Right.

 

If Whole Foods does come to town and they locate anywhere even moderately more upscale and accessible than this sh_thole, they will own the market for this customer easy.  

[GRJohn]

I'm happy for Grand Rapids that Trader Joe's is coming but I've been to them while in Chicago and I don't get the appeal.  I think Martha's Vineyard, Horrock's, GB Russo's, etc. are just as good (if not better).  Having said that, I'm sure they will be wildly successful and will put a second location in relatively soon.  I'd like to see it go downtown but I think that is unrealistic until more people live downtown.

[mpchicago]

The big problem? Kentwood =/= Grand Rapids. GR's tax coffers doesn't benefit from big retailers locating outside of the city.

 

It's wonderful that we can get into cars and get out of dodge in 5 - 20 minutes. Would be even better if all of the people around GR could do the same thing in reverse to go to retail that within GR which isnt really expanding. East Hills small retail boutiques isn't going to make up the difference, unfortunately.

 

It's almost seems like the only retail chain that is willing to expand deep into GR (not at the very edge) is Walgreens and Family Dollar.

 

The fact that Trader Joe's is 50 feet from the GR city limits, IS a boon for city tax coffers too. The hoards of TJ's fanatics will be shopping and dining on the Grand Rapids side of the street when they are out getting their Two Buck Chuck.  Grand Rapids is no different than Omaha or Madison.  To get to a TJ's, or a WF for that matter, you are going to have to get in your car.  They aren't going to sent up shop in East Hills.  You may not want to hear this too, but most people in Chicago still have to get in their car to go to TJ's and WF.  

 

Again, the city has some huge retail development going on right now that will add to city tax coffers.  I guess Breton Village is not deep enough into Grand Rapids to count.  Frankly, I like shopping Wealthy St., Cherry St, and other places like the Antique stores on Century without chains next door. 

[GRDadof3]

The fact that Trader Joe's is 50 feet from the GR city limits, IS a boon for city tax coffers too. The hoards of TJ's fanatics will be shopping and dining on the Grand Rapids side of the street when they are out getting their Two Buck Chuck.  Grand Rapids is no different than Omaha or Madison.  To get to a TJ's, or a WF for that matter, you are going to have to get in your car.  They aren't going to sent up shop in East Hills.  You may not want to hear this too, but most people in Chicago still have to get in their car to go to TJ's and WF.  

 

Again, the city has some huge retail development going on right now that will add to city tax coffers.  I guess Breton Village is not deep enough into Grand Rapids to count.  Frankly, I like shopping Wealthy St., Cherry St, and other places like the Antique stores on Century without chains next door. 

 

 

Thank you! A store like TJ's or WF's draws from such a large area that there's no way that even 1/8th of its customers can walk there. I know we're all fans of urban redevelopment here but c'mon.

 

Also, despite the fact that most of us hate 28th Street, it is equipped to handle another 5000 cars a day to go to TJ's. Midtown? The Fulton Street Farmer's Market is a joke for parking. East Hills? Have you tried going to Green Well or Vivant on a weekend evening? If you don't live within walking distance? Founders on a Friday evening? Too.many.cars. People drive, this ain't Manhattan or Chicago.

[GRDadof3]

Frankly I don't know anything about Heartwell, and whether or not he is out beating the bushes for economic development.  Yes, he is the face of the city, but he's really just a city commissioner when you get down to it.  I do know the city has an economic development office run by Kara Wood. I think the city manager's office works in conjunction with her on development.    Regardless, Heartwell is out.  Maybe the new mayor will be a little more out front on these issues.  

 

What else could the "mayors office" be doing in your opinion? 

 

 

Actively working with the DDA and the economic development office and going out and courting new businesses. I like the guy, I really do, but other than ribbon cuttings (which is too late since the business has already decided to plant itself in the city), I really don't see Heartwell being a "pro business" mayor. He cares about social issues, homeless people, green technology, climate change, body cams. That's great, but the city has huge problems with urban poverty and high unemployment in its neighborhoods, and the only way to really really change that is to get employers into the city (and not necessarily downtown). Very few employers locate somewhere because of nearby bike lanes. The mere fact that none of the employment agencies have a presence in the city is a huge problem.

 

That's all way off topic though.

[GR_Urbanist]

Thank you! A store like TJ's or WF's draws from such a large area that there's no way that even 1/8th of its customers can walk there. I know we're all fans of urban redevelopment here but c'mon.

 

Also, despite the fact that most of us hate 28th Street, it is equipped to handle another 5000 cars a day to go to TJ's. Midtown? The Fulton Street Farmer's Market is a joke for parking. East Hills? Have you tried going to Green Well or Vivant on a weekend evening? If you don't live within walking distance? Founders on a Friday evening? Too.many.cars. People drive, this ain't Manhattan or Chicago.

 

I dont think anyone was seriously suggesting that TJ's would be in Eastown or East Hills. However, we do have plenty of places it could have gone that isnt a 5-6 lane state highway in Kentwood that is next to impossible to get to unless you drive.

 

But if this place has to be there, and virtually every other retail chain follows the same rationale, then why bother even discussing retail actually returning to this town?

 

We either have a choice of turning GR into Kentwood (ugh) in order to expand the tax base or just be happy that big draws like this are over there, and not notice when places like the library have to go begging to city hall to pay the bills because the property taxes came in short.

 

As I was saying, something drastically needs to change so that these companies don't just set up on the other side of the border every time as being good enough to be "in" Grand Rapids.

[GRDadof3]

I dont think anyone was seriously suggesting that TJ's would be in Eastown or East Hills. However, we do have plenty of places it could have gone that isnt a 5-6 lane state highway in Kentwood that is next to impossible to get to unless you drive.

 

But if this place has to be there, and virtually every other retail chain follows the same rationale, then why bother even discussing retail actually returning to this town?

 

We either have a choice of turning GR into Kentwood (ugh) in order to expand the tax base or just be happy that big draws like this are over there, and not notice when places like the library have to go begging to city hall to pay the bills because the property taxes came in short.

 

As I was saying, something drastically needs to change so that these companies don't just set up on the other side of the border every time as being good enough to be "in" Grand Rapids.

 

The property tax situation in Grand Rapids and all of Kent County over the last 6 or 7 years doesn't have anything to do with retail downtown, which doesn't have anything to do with the library's issues. And a large chain is really not right for downtown anyway.

 

Attracting more retail downtown makes for a more vibrant downtown, but it doesn't significantly affect the tax base. Just makes it more livable. And based on the pace of new residential downtown, the LACK of retail doesn't seem to be keeping people away. It will come, and it has come a long way since this forum started talking about it.

 

But a small retail store doesn't even come close to the economic impact made by a company like Founder's (production facility) or Firstronic or Thiereca that is adding close to 100 employees, or OST and all of its tech employees paying income taxes to the city.

 

If people don't want to go to TJ's because it's on 28th Street, then don't go. I seriously doubt I'll step foot in the place more than once.

[GRDadof3]

Maybe Whole Foods is going in here, at Fulton and Crahen/Forest Hills Avenue. They are clearing all of the trees off the site and I saw a realtor sign on it the other day. Residential area, but can handle the traffic. Since the commercial realtor community said last year about this time that TJ's and WF's would announce within the year, I would bet an announcement is right around the corner.

 

The entire site is 250,000 square feet so it could easily fit a 40,000 sf WF's and a couple of other retailers. In the heart of one of the wealthiest zip codes, 49301, and just a few miles from EGR.

 

[john_denver]

Interesting thought...

[joeDowntown]

I agree about the old family fare store on cascade and 28th. If I were a betting man, that location would be the pony I bet on.

That center is so underutilized, it could easily get a total makeover and new purpose.

Joe

[GRDadof3]

I agree about the old family fare store on cascade and 28th. If I were a betting man, that location would be the pony I bet on.

That center is so underutilized, it could easily get a total makeover and new purpose.

Joe

 

That too would be an "unconventional residential" area. Interesting. Who owns that center? The llc has an address of 2712 Walkent Dr in Walker.

[RegalTDP]

I don't want to derail the thread, but if you look at the pictures, what struck me was the huge amount of so-called "free" parking available.  Working to make retail downtown happen probably involves addressing that issue in a very different way than we have been.  (Like, say, 1000 completely free dedicated parking spaces that validate by scanning a barcode on a receipt from any downtown retailer).  Still, kudos to Kentwood for being so pro-active in their approach.  Regionally, it is always nice to see a new national retailer move into the area.  The more of this we get, the more likely it becomes we might see something happen downtown when the mindset really shifts to doing whatever is necessary to make it a shopping destination once again.

 

I like that idea.  I haven't seen a "downtown-wide" public parking validation program anywhere before.  Maybe the DDA could work with the retailers in its boundaries.  I'm sure Ellis Parking would throw a fit and try to stop it.

 

But as far as Trader Joe's goes, it's moot because they have to have their own parking.  Regardless, grocery stores do exist in urban spaces and I know plenty of Trader Joe's that are in parking-unfriendly and cramped neighborhoods.  Many urban format grocery stores in other cities put parking either on the roof or underground.**  I think you're right to notice all the parking though; given that it's the first store in the area, they will need more than usual.

 

**Why won't Tapestry Square do that?? So much surface parking...

[GRDadof3]

What is this, article #8 or #9 for MLive on this Trader Joe's? What a sad state the local paper has become in its digital form.

 

(Click on this link and you may or may not be any more infored than you were 15 minutes ago)

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2015/02/trader_joes_store_in_grand_rap.html

[MJLO]

What is this, article #8 or #9 for MLive on this Trader Joe's? What a sad state the local paper has become in its digital form.

 

(Click on this link and you may or may not be any more infored than you were 15 minutes ago)

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2015/02/trader_joes_store_in_grand_rap.html

 

My favorite is when Mlive creates articles to "see what people are saying" and it's a bunch of snap shots of mlive poster comments. 

[ModSquad]

What is this, article #8 or #9 for MLive on this Trader Joe's? What a sad state the local paper has become in its digital form.

 

(Click on this link and you may or may not be any more infored than you were 15 minutes ago)

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2015/02/trader_joes_store_in_grand_rap.html

Don't get me started on another rant about the sad state of affairs our local media is in, and MLive is at the top of the trash heap.  Sad, so sad...

[GRDadof3]

Don't get me started on another rant about the sad state of affairs our local media is in, and MLive is at the top of the trash heap.  Sad, so sad...

 

Imagine if the New York Times ran an article on something 8 times. Not as a longer series, the same thing 8 times!  *Change headline, insert paragraph, rerun*

[GRDadof3]

I assume this is Trader Joe's, since it's the first tenant announced for this little strip development.

 

[GRDadof3]

Shapin up:

 

 

 

Hey, I wonder if our Trader Joe's will look like this one...