Get rid of the S-Curve?

[GRDadof3]

If you were to divert the S-curve like that, you would get a ton of free space in the city center. The orange in this image is empty space. (current parking lots/vacant land and the area that 131 takes up.) it would really make for interesting development opportunities that are never realized because of proximity to the highway.

 

A lot of that land is not underdeveloped because of the highway. It's underdeveloped because it's controlled by the city and GVSU. Companies actually wouldn't mind being in a building with their marquee on it and 100,000 cars a day driving by (100 Grandville, 32 and 44 Market for instance). Free billboard. 131 certainly hasn't stopped GVSU from building right up to it (quite the contrary, actually).

 

But this does open a huge swath of land for redevelopment. Keep putting pressure on the city/DDA to divest out of the parking business, or at least get them out of downtown. The new Director is all about that.

[joeDowntown]

Great visualization of how much space would be freed up. It really shows how much of a buffer exists between the riverfront and the West Side.

 

I agree with GRDad, even without a change to 131, the swath of publicly owned parking needs to go. I'm not as 'anti-car' as some of the people on this board and Facebook, but parking lots could be consolidated and used much more efficiently than it has been since the great Urban Renewal. 

 

Joe

[fotoman311]

Great visualization of how much space would be freed up. It really shows how much of a buffer exists between the riverfront and the West Side.

 

I agree with GRDad, even without a change to 131, the swath of publicly owned parking needs to go. I'm not as 'anti-car' as some of the people on this board and Facebook, but parking lots could be consolidated and used much more efficiently than it has been since the great Urban Renewal. 

 

Joe

 

Here's another visualization I did awhile ago, placing the footprint of 5/3rd Ballpark into the footprint of US 131, just to give a better idea of how vast these spaces are.  It only includes a few of the surrounding spaces that joshleo highlighted.  The scale should be pretty close to right on.  I shrunk a google map of downtown to fit directly over the Nederveld map I used, then used the same ratio to shrink a screen shot of 5/3rd at the same google zoom level.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fotoman311/8262363657/in/photostream/

 

[GRDadof3]

Sweet, we could have 10 baseball teams!

 

Fox17 is reporting on this. Andy Guy raised this on the Salon page, but apparently we do know that a) MDOT is entering into a 131 corridor study of Kent County b) The guy from MDOT dismisses outright anything other than its current configuration as costing "Billions and billions." c) He makes the (absurd) claim that 131 was built first and the city built up around it. Maybe he meant the m-6/Kalamazoo interchange area?

 

http://fox17online.com/2013/04/02/group-proposes-plan-to-get-rid-of-131-s-curve/#axzz2POrTcGut

 

It's cool to have more than one outfit to discuss these things. I think UP lends itself better to longer discussions than the Salon page, but the Salon page probably gets more attention.

[andrew.w]

I don't like the idea of making it ground level either.  I do like the idea of straightening it out and maybe making it under ground.  I think the highway issue that is probably more important to fix is the 131/196 interchange.    That is just a huge mess.  Entrances to both highways in each direction coming in from both sides is just horrible planning.   And why does 131 criss cross itself twice?  That whole interchange makes no sense to me

The reason that the interchange is designed the way it is, is to save space.  By flipping the northbound and southbound lanes of 131, the planners were able to avoid a cloverleaf intersection, which would have destroyed twice as much of the west side (including the Union High School and St. Mary's Church).

 

I definitely think the best solution would have been to not have any expressway downtown at all, but you can't just drop all of that traffic onto an on-grade city street, especially if most of it is try to get through downtown, not to downtown.

[Explorer55]

Whatever happens with 131, the Grand Valley Metro Council (the MPO for the GR region) must be involved, especially at the planning study level, but also when it comes to identifying funding for any project and approving any proposed project(s), particularly those with federal funding.  Of course, it would be helpful if the City of Grand Rapids was on board, too! (And the City of GR is a  member of the MPO, along with a bunch of other local jurisdictions.)

 

Regardless, this isn't only a MDOT issue or decision, not by any means.  Don't let anyone from MDOT make it sound like it is.

[joshleo]

Sweet, we could have 10 baseball teams!

 

Fox17 is reporting on this. Andy Guy raised this on the Salon page, but apparently we do know that a) MDOT is entering into a 131 corridor study of Kent County b) The guy from MDOT dismisses outright anything other than its current configuration as costing "Billions and billions." c) He makes the (absurd) claim that 131 was built first and the city built up around it. Maybe he meant the m-6/Kalamazoo interchange area?

 

http://fox17online.com/2013/04/02/group-proposes-plan-to-get-rid-of-131-s-curve/#axzz2POrTcGut

 

It's cool to have more than one outfit to discuss these things. I think UP lends itself better to longer discussions than the Salon page, but the Salon page probably gets more attention.

 

The report makes the S-Curve sound like it is an important city treasure. They used words like "landmark" and "staple of Grand Rapids skyline" and said that it is iconic "when you hear S-Curve, people know you are talking about Grand Rapids" and to say that the S-curve came first and the city came later is so rediculous, it boggles the mind. 

 

I am pretty sure it is a big highway that cuts right through the city. nothing pretty to look at, no emotional or historic significance. It is functional for moving quickly north and south but let's not treat it like it is the Calder, the Pantlind Hotel, or some other landmark. 

 

Yup, looks like city popped up right around this beautiful curvy river of concrete:

[joeDowntown]

and sensational "journalism" wins again!

[GRDadof3]

Whatever happens with 131, the Grand Valley Metro Council (the MPO for the GR region) must be involved, especially at the planning study level, but also when it comes to identifying funding for any project and approving any proposed project(s), particularly those with federal funding.  Of course, it would be helpful if the City of Grand Rapids was on board, too! (And the City of GR is a  member of the MPO, along with a bunch of other local jurisdictions.)

 

Regardless, this isn't only a MDOT issue or decision, not by any means.  Don't let anyone from MDOT make it sound like it is.

 

Not to make "sweeping accusations" again , but I've heard that since Don Stypula left, GVMC has become almost irrelevant. I hope that's not true.

[Jippy]

My thoughts on this are beginning to evolve. Here ideas in the realm of possibility (i.e. constructive suggestions):

 

• 131/Wealthy - Bring Wealthy down to grade, and raise 131 above it to provide greater pedestrian and transit connectivity between the two sides
• 131 from Wealthy to Market - Integrate active uses underneath the highway.  Rather than viewing the highways as a barrier, the land below the highway should incorporate at-grade retail and other active uses. This approach would diminish the psychological barriers and actually leverage the sunk investment into an economic development and place-making tool. 
• 131 off-ramp to Cherry - Since Wealthy Street was lowered and 131 elevated (see above), then pedestrian access can be established between the transit center and Bartlett and Goodrich Avenues through Heartside Park. Additional activating uses can also be integrated underneath the highway adjacent to the park to provide greater presence. Skate and mountain bike park? 

[Allison Slater]

The idea of creating active uses under the highway is my the direction I'd most like to see.  The diversion to 96 sounds nice, but look at that map.. it's redirecting traffic far out of its way to really travel only a short distance.  I wonder if some people would feel that it would be quicker for them to hop off 131 and go down Ionia/Ottawa and get back on 131 on the other side.  Most would probably just be very annoyed by the whole thing.

 

And as mentioned earlier, 131 itself isn't proving to be as big of a barrier as we may think it is, what with River House and similarly City Market (across an underpass that's current rather unsavory and wouldn't get much cross traffic at all.)  The combination of river and park together acts as a barrier between the west and downtown, and pulling out the highway won't really fix that.  Rather, I'd wager the highway's presence may be of benefit to the west side's development once the downtown area grows further and SWAN sees some changes in attitudes.  I think the best option is to raise 131 further south and extend Heartside Park beneath the highway to the Rapid, or vice-versa, and to build retail outlets beneath the highway on Fulton, Pearl, Bridge, and Market.

[Raildudes dad]

The relocation may look "good" on paper but the impact on the west side would be huge. The curves as "shown" are way too sharp to meet any type of standard.  SB 131 to WB 196 would take out Union Square to meet any type of standard. You think there have been a few truck accidents on the ramp? Wait until they all have to use it:(. It would take 8 lanes between there and the old Butterworth Dump. The Zoo is a 4f property (Sec 4f from the Federal Environmental Impact regs) which pretty much eliminates any expansion of the roadway. 8 lanes from Lake Michigan Drive to Lane would be a challenge to design.

 

There is no reason that the areas under the freeway could not be made into something new and unique. Use the bridges for shelter, the outdoor stalls for the market could have been incorporated into it for example. tSlater has some good ideas in the previous post

 

Also MDOT did not push the 131 freeway thru downtown. I cannot find my previous post but the City fathers wanted the freeway right thru downtown to have downtown compete with the first mall being constructed in the GR area out on 28th St - Rogers Plaza. They wanted quick and easy access so insisted on all the ramps, Burton, Hall, Franklin, Wealhy, Downtown, Market and Pear, Leoanrd and Ann. The City sold 30 years bonds to help pay for 131.

 

The local office of URS Corp. is doing the corridor study of 131 for MDOT. The limits are from 108th St to 15 Mile Road. They will be identifying alternates for possible improvements.

[Explorer55]

Referring to GVMC, unless it's a rubber stamp to whatever MDOT wants, and I certainly hope it's not, a State DOT cannot advance any federal-aid project in a metro area without the MPO putting the project on the metropolitan transportation plan and its transportation improvement program.  There's a lot more to it than that, including air quality conformity issues that the MPO is responsible for addressing.  The MPO Board does have the right to determine what projects do or do not go forward within the MPO planning boundary.  Of course, there has to be give and take and negotiation between the various agencies (including the transit providers). 

 

If you want an active, progressive MPO, go to meetings, get involved with planning studies, talk to the staff, and then go talk to your local representatives (mayors, township officials, city council members) who are on the MPO Policy Board.  Some MPOs in this country have a lot of influence and authority, if they have the will power and impetus to use it.  But if no one knows or cares, they can be almost meaningless (however, federal transportation projects still can't advance in their regions without their approval, rubber stamp or not).

[joshleo]

The idea of creating active uses under the highway is my the direction I'd most like to see...

 

Isn't this only possible under the stretch of 131 between Wealthy Street and where it curves over Grandville? The rest of the S-curve is a GIANT wall... the entire West side is still just a giant mass of concrete and earth separating the museums and GVSU/residential area...

[GRDadof3]

The relocation may look "good" on paper but the impact on the west side would be huge. The curves as "shown" are way too sharp to meet any type of standard.  SB 131 to WB 196 would take out Union Square to meet any type of standard. You think there have been a few truck accidents on the ramp? Wait until they all have to use it:(. It would take 8 lanes between there and the old Butterworth Dump. The Zoo is a 4f property (Sec 4f from the Federal Environmental Impact regs) which pretty much eliminates any expansion of the roadway. 8 lanes from Lake Michigan Drive to Lane would be a challenge to design.

 

There is no reason that the areas under the freeway could not be made into something new and unique. Use the bridges for shelter, the outdoor stalls for the market could have been incorporated into it for example. tSlater has some good ideas in the previous post

 

Also MDOT did not push the 131 freeway thru downtown. I cannot find my previous post but the City fathers wanted the freeway right thru downtown to have downtown compete with the first mall being constructed in the GR area out on 28th St - Rogers Plaza. They wanted quick and easy access so insisted on all the ramps, Burton, Hall, Franklin, Wealhy, Downtown, Market and Pear, Leoanrd and Ann. The City sold 30 years bonds to help pay for 131.

 

The local office of URS Corp. is doing the corridor study of 131 for MDOT. The limits are from 108th St to 15 Mile Road. They will be identifying alternates for possible improvements.

 

Interesting insight RDD.

 

One thing I didn't like about the reroute was dislocating all of the industrial users. They pay taxes, for a city drowning in budget cuts. In fact, industrial users are a better return on municipal investment than residential users.

Isn't this only possible under the stretch of 131 between Wealthy Street and where it curves over Grandville? The rest of the S-curve is a GIANT wall... the entire West side is still just a giant mass of concrete and earth separating the museums and GVSU/residential area...

 

The Northbound freeway is elevated near the Ford Museum. Or maybe that's just the on-ramp/off ramp?

[RegalTDP]

Interesting insight RDD.

 

One thing I didn't like about the reroute was dislocating all of the industrial users. They pay taxes, for a city drowning in budget cuts. In fact, industrial users are a better return on municipal investment than residential users.

 

Also, speaking of the Butterworth dump, I don't think a freeway would fly.  Wouldn't that pierce the vegetative cap over the soil?

 

The Northbound freeway is elevated near the Ford Museum. Or maybe that's just the on-ramp/off ramp?

 

Nope, the whole northbound side is elevated.

 

Southbound wise, what could be done with that wall?  Maybe a row of works by graffiti artists, sanctioned by the city and a local arts organization.  It would give Mt. Vernon a bit of an "East Berlin" look.  Yokohama used to have a breathtaking wall of graffiti beneath some elevated JR tracks that I loved walking by (I found a Flickr set here).  Recently, I heard the city hated it and had the whole thing cleaned up, so it's not there anymore.

 

Or maybe we could turn the Mt. Vernon wall into an Artprize venue, and parcel off sections of the wall to different artists.

[Raildudes dad]

Actually I believe the EPA would allow another impervious cap over the landfill ie paving. It currently has a clay cap and a properly designed and paved surface could be installed. Visser Bros. paved and and constructed buildings over the HB Brown Superfund site on Turner NW and received Brownfield credits to do it.

 

Also, speaking of the Butterworth dump, I don't think a freeway would fly.  Wouldn't that pierce the vegetative cap over the soil?

[GR8scott]

Doubt this would ever happen. I would not want it to either. Most people like the convenience of driving straight through and adding 5-10 min around and houndreds of millions of dollars for what? The S curve is not bad now that its been redone and provides quick and easy access to downtown not to mention good views! As for the butter worth dump, direct access from 196 on the North side of the river could improve traffic flow but its not like market street is a gridlock, I think it would be awesome to see some windmills in there. 

[RegalTDP]

Actually I believe the EPA would allow another impervious cap over the landfill ie paving. It currently has a clay cap and a properly designed and paved surface could be installed. Visser Bros. paved and and constructed buildings over the HB Brown Superfund site on Turner NW and received Brownfield credits to do it.

 

I wasn't thinking the pavement would be a problem, but the requisite highway sign structures.  I'm way outside my depth on this, though.

[GRDadof3]

That illustration shows the highway running just beneath (South of) Wealthy, which would actually not run it on the actual Butterworth dump. It appears to be at least a hundred yards South of Wealthy.

 

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=wealthy+st+sw,+grand+rapids,+mi&hl=en&ll=42.955936,-85.696514&spn=0.008873,0.01929&hnear=Wealthy+St+SW,+Grand+Rapids,+Kent,+Michigan&t=h&z=16

[GRDadof3]

Since MDOT and the local business community will (probably) never allow getting rid of 131 altogether, and changing the alignment without disrupting other parts of the city seem unlikely, here's an idea (and I'm going to go back on my objection to an at-grade boulevard):

 

) Drop 131 to an at-grade boulevard from Ann Street to Hall St, 3 lanes each direction.

) Run light-rail up the middle of this new boulevard, with a park-n-ride lot at Ann where Grand Rapids Auto Parts site is (for sale):

 

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=ann+street+and+131,+grand+rapids,+mi&hl=en&ll=42.994337,-85.675442&spn=0.008381,0.01929&sll=45.00109,-86.270553&sspn=8.777826,19.753418&t=h&hnear=131+Ann+St+NE,+Grand+Rapids,+Michigan+49505&z=16

 

And a park-n-ride lot near Hall St

 

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=ann+street+and+131,+grand+rapids,+mi&hl=en&ll=42.939868,-85.675592&spn=0.008388,0.01929&sll=45.00109,-86.270553&sspn=8.777826,19.753418&t=h&hnear=131+Ann+St+NE,+Grand+Rapids,+Michigan+49505&z=16

 

) 6 miles of light rail, about $200 Million (paid for with money saved by getting rid of all the elevated sections of the s-curve

) Stations could be added at Leonard, 2 downtown, Franklin

 

) Incorporate Turner and Scribner into this new boulevard on the North end, and Century into the boulevard on the South end, incorporate dedicated landscaped bike lanes/trails into it (you'll have a huge wide space to work with).

 

) Create a grand roundabout at the intersection of this new boulevard and Pearl, and at Pearl and Front St, the West Gateway into the city

 

) Build new architecturally designed pedestrian bridges over the boulevard for GVSU students and other pedestrians near their campus, one near the current bus stop and one near the business college. Or option b) CAP this section of the boulevard from 196 to just North of the river

 

) Create a stunningly designed bridge for this boulevard over the Grand River, incorporating pedestrian and bike bridges into it.

 

) Haven't figured out how to handle the Wealthy/131 area...

 

) Can someone get working on drawing this up?

 

It'd be Grand Rapids only chance probably in the next 20 years to get a start on light rail...

 

 

Giddy up.

 

[John E]

I don't get how the 131 Freeway being boulevarded at street level would be crossed. Wouldn't bridges or tunnels be needed?

I am against light rail/street cars. BRT routes are much less expensive and provide the same service.
 

Since MDOT and the local business community will (probably) never allow getting rid of 131 altogether, and changing the alignment without disrupting other parts of the city seem unlikely, here's an idea (and I'm going to go back on my objection to an at-grade boulevard):

 

) Drop 131 to an at-grade boulevard from Ann Street to Hall St, 3 lanes each direction.

) Run light-rail up the middle of this new boulevard, with a park-n-ride lot at Ann where Grand Rapids Auto Parts site is (for sale):

 

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=ann+street+and+131,+grand+rapids,+mi&hl=en&ll=42.994337,-85.675442&spn=0.008381,0.01929&sll=45.00109,-86.270553&sspn=8.777826,19.753418&t=h&hnear=131+Ann+St+NE,+Grand+Rapids,+Michigan+49505&z=16

 

And a park-n-ride lot near Hall St

 

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=ann+street+and+131,+grand+rapids,+mi&hl=en&ll=42.939868,-85.675592&spn=0.008388,0.01929&sll=45.00109,-86.270553&sspn=8.777826,19.753418&t=h&hnear=131+Ann+St+NE,+Grand+Rapids,+Michigan+49505&z=16

 

) 6 miles of light rail, about $200 Million (paid for with money saved by getting rid of all the elevated sections of the s-curve

) Stations could be added at Leonard, 2 downtown, Franklin

 

) Incorporate Turner and Scribner into this new boulevard on the North end, and Century into the boulevard on the South end, incorporate dedicated landscaped bike lanes/trails into it (you'll have a huge wide space to work with).

 

) Create a grand roundabout at the intersection of this new boulevard and Pearl, and at Pearl and Front St, the West Gateway into the city

 

) Build new architecturally designed pedestrian bridges over the boulevard for GVSU students and other pedestrians near their campus, one near the current bus stop and one near the business college. Or option b) CAP this section of the boulevard from 196 to just North of the river

 

) Create a stunningly designed bridge for this boulevard over the Grand River, incorporating pedestrian and bike bridges into it.

 

) Haven't figured out how to handle the Wealthy/131 area...

 

) Can someone get working on drawing this up?

 

It'd be Grand Rapids only chance probably in the next 20 years to get a start on light rail...

 

 

Giddy up.

 

[GRDadof3]

I don't get how the 131 Freeway being boulevarded at street level would be crossed. Wouldn't bridges or tunnels be needed?

I am against light rail/street cars. BRT routes are much less expensive and provide the same service.

 

 

Bridges for the most heavily used pedestrian areas (as I pointed out). Standard pedestrian crosswalks at intersections.

 

While it's certainly better than a standard bus route, I would say that BRT does not provide the same bang as light rail. BRT is still a long way from being heavily adopted in the U.S. vs light rail. Just the capacity alone of rail vs bus is astronomically higher. The end goal should be rail, even if it takes 50 years. Not BRT.

[GR8scott]

If anything 131 should be upgraded to interstate standards to the south and connect with 80/90 and renamed I-67 which would further improve business along the corridor, after that would be an extension up north.   

[arcturus]

If anything 131 should be upgraded to interstate standards to the south and connect with 80/90 and renamed I-67 which would further improve business along the corridor, after that would be an extension up north.   

 

Agreed.  Most on ramp/off ramp/interchanges on 131 from 28th St north to Ann are substandard and it clearly shows.