Save The Cordell Hull and The Ben West

[UTgrad09]

I like it for what it is, the era it represents and the materials used to build it. It is a perfect example of "they dont build them like they used to"  but I also agree there are prettier buildings out there.

 

This is how I feel. It is not in my top...well...25 buildings downtown...but there are honestly very, very few buildings downtown that I would consider tearing down. I want downtown to stay as is, save for surface parking lots (we should be building downtown, not tearing down).

 

Cordell Hull is an impressive and imposing public building...and yes, they don't build em like they used to (though there are some good examples of the city building them like they used to -- such as with the downtown library, as well as the Burch building near the CJC). I used to ride by the building every day on the city bus on the way to Meigs...so I got some fairly close looks at it. It's not pretty, but it's always a building I had respect for...one of those symbols of government you can actually be proud of.

[gannman]

What makes Nashville such a great city is its unique character. Honestly, if there were a brand new shiny box on every corner then I would have no desire to live here. As we tear down buildings such as the FYE building on West End, historic churches, victorian homes along Music Row, the apartment building across from Ellison23, possibly Cordell Hull, we loose a piece of our past and character that can't be regained. 

[mirydi]

 What I can't appreciate is that you, apparently, think that the fact that the Cordell Hull's design isn't your cup of tea is ample reason for it to be demolished.

So becuase it is YOUR cup of tea (and a few others) it shouldn't be demolished? Goes both ways you know... The fact that it has been reported that it is way too costly to repair and reuse then to demolish, and doesn't work well functionally either is ample reason enough.

 

I don't understand sometimes why people cry foul everytime a few old dilapidated buildings get torn down in the name of revitalization, and think that all of the sudden the city is going to be some sterile souless city now because of it. For crying out loud 90% of every building/structure in this city is OLD! A few structures being torn down here and there to be replaced by new ones isn't going to change anything. There is more than enough old and historic structures in this city that it's character isn't going to be compromised. People just need to relax a little... Should we start a petition to save the old convention center as well??? How bout the old coin shop that's in the footprint of Sheet Music? Should that have been saved too?!

 

Remember folks, everything we value today as an irreplaceable part of our heritage was once new also. It's going to be OK guy's! This talk about not wanting to live here if there is too many new buildings around is comical to me. Guess you might want to move to Birminham or somewhere where not much development is happening because I assure you there as fast as Nashville is growing there is going to be PLENTY more new shiny buildings popping up everwhere.

[UTgrad09]

So becuase it is YOUR cup of tea (and a few others) it shouldn't be demolished? Goes both ways you know... The fact that it has been reported that it is way too costly to repair and reuse then to demolish, and doesn't work well functionally either is ample reason enough.

 

I don't understand sometimes why people cry foul everytime a few old dilapidated buildings get torn down in the name of revitalization, and think that all of the sudden the city is going to be some sterile souless city now because of it. For crying out loud 90% of every building/structure in this city is OLD! A few structures being torn down here and there to be replaced by new ones isn't going to change anything. There is more than enough old and historic structures in this city that it's character isn't going to be compromised. People just need to relax a little... Should we start a petition to save the old convention center as well??? How bout the old coin shop that's in the footprint of Sheet Music? Should that have been saved too?!

 

Remember folks, everything we value today as an irreplaceable part of our heritage was once new also. It's going to be OK guy's! This talk about not wanting to live here if there is too many new buildings around is comical to me. Guess you might want to move to Birminham or somewhere where not much development is happening because I assure you there as fast as Nashville is growing there is going to be PLENTY more new shiny buildings popping up everwhere.

 

 

Do you support the Cordell Hull building being torn down in favor of an empty lot? Because that's what it will be. This is not development. It's anti-development.

 

 

As for Birmingham -- perhaps you should pay closer attention -- there's actually a lot happening in that city right now.

[Griz83]

The bottom line is, follow the money.  Take a look at who did the "assessment" of the Cordell Hull, who they were working for, who got kickbacks, and so on.  I think you'll find that the assessments of "too costly" and "not functioning well" are bogus.  JLL is calling all of the shots on both sides of the assessment, leasing, etc.  I'm not much on conspiracy theories; but this one seems pretty obvious.  I've been in the building in the last few months.  From what I have seen, the shape it is in is just as good or better than the Snodgrass building where I work.

 

Regardless of where you stand on the architecture, it is not justified to tear the Hull down based on one heavily biased assessment.  Just my $.02...

[mirydi]

Do you support the Cordell Hull building being torn down in favor of an empty lot? Because that's what it will be. This is not development. It's anti-development.

 

 

As for Birmingham -- perhaps you should pay closer attention -- there's actually a lot happening in that city right now.

I aready said in one of my posts above that if it were just going to be turned into a parking lot then no, I wouldn't support it. But if it was going to be turned into a parking lot temporarly and 3,5, hell even 10 years down the road it would be redeveloped then yeah. Just becuase the city might take forever to sell or do whatever with the property doesn't mean that it will be a parking lot forever. It would eventually be redeveloped no doubt.

 

As for Birminham, no I don't pay much attention, it was just something thrown out there. All I know is that most of the city is old looking and development there is nowhere near it is the pace here. That's all I was getting at really so no need to defend Birminham as I wasn't taking a jab at the city or something.

[Hey_Hey]

This lot won't be developed for the foreseeable future. The state wants to put a parking lot on it.

It seems like 50 years after something is built people want to tear it down (think about all of the turn of the century bungalows, queen Anne's, and Victorian houses that were torn down 40-50 years ago in Nashville because they were "old" and "run down"). People now look back in absolute disgust that those houses were razed, and the ones that do remain are worth much more than a new, shiny house.

I don't have to particularly like a style of building to want to save it. I personally don't find the Mona Lisa all that attractive, but I understand the importance and significance of it. For an architectural example, I really don't care for Marina City in Chicago, but it is a unique style of architecture. The river front in Chicago might look "better" if some new shiny glass building replaced it, but it would remove a piece of what makes Chicago so special in terms of architecture.

With varying styles of architecture a city becomes a living museum. If we tore down every building after 50 years and replaced it with something architecturally current the city would become quite boring.

[Hey_Hey]

For a good example of a structure being nearly razed and then later people realize the absurdity of it, look into the Robie House in Chicago.

[CenterHill]

For a good example of a structure being nearly razed and then later people realize the absurdity of it, look into the Robie House in Chicago.

 

Closer to home, the Ryman.  

[nashvillwill]

I believe this is relevant;

http://mobile.newschannel5.com/webapp/news/article/ncinv/457296546/senate-committee-rejects-contract-reform-bill

[captainwjm]

Guess that everone saw today's Tennessean article on the costs to upgrade the Cordell Hull Building.:

 

http://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2014/03/26/cordell-hull-upgrades-cost-tennessee-million/6931311/

 

This is, unfortunately, a sober assessment that does not make me hopeful.

 

In addition, another section of the building is being evacuated due to water intrusion and mold.  A section of state employees is being temporarily moved within the building pending a final move to either state owned or leased space. 

[CenterHill]

So it will cost $37M to renovate and $11M to tear down.   The state does not need or want the building.    Why not sell or lease Cordell Hull to a private developer?    I've never heard this proposed or even discussed as an option.       

[captainwjm]

Well, that was the original proposal from JLL; opposition from folks like us [and folks with actual influence] resulted in a revision of those plans.

[smeagolsfree]

So it will cost $37M to renovate and $11M to tear down.   The state does not need or want the building.    Why not sell or lease Cordell Hull to a private developer?    I've never heard this proposed or even discussed as an option.       

I agree 100% as this is excess government property and should be auctioned or sold outright. Protect it under a conservation overlay and let a developer convert to housing or mixed use.

[nashvylle]

everything can be sold at the right price.

 

Sell it.

[CenterHill]

everything can be sold at the right price.

 

Sell it.

If the state sold it for $1, it would be a huge win for the state in terms of the savings. It just seems like the best solution.

[captainwjm]

No, no. no!  That is the capitol grounds.  Either a state building or parkland. No private development there.

[UTgrad09]

No, no. no!  That is the capitol grounds.  Either a state building or parkland. No private development there.

 

It's become fairly obvious that the state doesn't want to own their own buildings. Plus, there are already a couple of residential buildings on 5th adjacent to the Capitol...so the precedent has already been set.

[smeagolsfree]

No, no. no!  That is the capitol grounds.  Either a state building or parkland. No private development there.

Still better than a parking lot and that is what would happen.

[Griz83]

No, no. no!  That is the capitol grounds.  Either a state building or parkland. No private development there.

 

Prior to Cordell Hull being built, I'm fairly certain there were private homes on this block.  In fact, if I'm not mistaken the "Capitol Grounds" had private homes nearly all the way around it at one point.  The original Governor's mansion was located where War Memorial now stands.  I see no reason not to have privately owned homes, condos, or apartments fronting the Capitol.  However, policing for dog "walking" would have to be enforced.  Nothing like admiring the Waterfield Reliquary and stepping in a fresh pile...

[Paramount747]

Any rendering of what it could be like if rehabbed? And why did the State let this building get into this bad of shape to begin with?

[fieldmarshaldj]

Prior to Cordell Hull being built, I'm fairly certain there were private homes on this block.  In fact, if I'm not mistaken the "Capitol Grounds" had private homes nearly all the way around it at one point.  The original Governor's mansion was located where War Memorial now stands.  I see no reason not to have privately owned homes, condos, or apartments fronting the Capitol.  However, policing for dog "walking" would have to be enforced.  Nothing like admiring the Waterfield Reliquary and stepping in a fresh pile...

Yup, it was the very tony Park Place. Beautiful Victorians for as far as the eye could see, and every last one of them demolished. :-(

[bwithers1]

Brief update on the Ben West Library:  On Tuesday, June 3rd the Council passed on third reading BL2014-752, which declares the Ben West Library building on Polk Street to be surplus property http://www.nashville.gov/mc/ordinances/term_2011_2015/bl2014_752.htm.  This bill has been signed by Mayor Dean and is now in effect.  MDHA will now be authorized to send out an RFP for the redevelopment of this property. 

 

There had been much discussion about the original deed to this property requiring its continued use as a library, without which the property would revert to the heirs of the original deed grantors.  Council Office analysis indicates that Metro has contacted the those heirs, who will presumably have an interest in the sale of this property.  The Council Office analysis also indicates an "understanding" that the redevelopment of the property will preserve any "historically significant" portions of the building.  Proceeds of the sale will go to the Metro general fund.  The Council Office analysis indicates that a December 2012 appraisal estimated the value of the property to be $6,250,000.

[Guest]

i wish i could like this post 1000 times!! ^^

[CenterHill]

From Tennessean today. 

 

New option emerges for Cordell Hull, Central Services

http://www.tennessean.com/story/money/real-estate/2014/07/14/new-option-emerges-cordell-hull-central-services/12658833/

 

The plan is based on consultant Centric Architecture's latest report recommending that the two state office buildings be considered separately because of differences between them. The report also found that it would be most cost-effective to renovate Cordell Hull than to tear it down and rebuild.

 

 

Encouraging!    We knew the prior consultant's recommendation to tear down the Cordell Hull could not be the right answer.   

 

The option of ripping out the Central Services building (I had to look it up - it's the one-story structure on 5th with the unused plaza on top that sits between Cordell Hull and the John Sevier building) and replacing it with a parking garage may work.    The Plan of Nashville made a priority of preserving the N,S,E,W site lines to the capitol.    The view from the east looking up and over Central Services was one of the site lines, so the garage would need to be a fairly low structure if the Plan is to be followed.    My guess is the state doesn't give a rat's a** about the Plan of Nashville.