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Klingman's Warehouse

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Apparently the Klingman's Warehouse (60 Wealthy, across from the Downtown Market) is under contract contingent on them getting Low Income Housing Tax Credits. So that begs the question, are there too many low-income projects being approved lately? Even though LIHTC is a State program, I believe it has to be approved by the City to move forward (I can't imagine otherwise).

 

Does that bode well for the new Downtown Market to have so many big projects surrounding it with low-income households? Low income households have less disposable income.

 

Reminds me of the discussion that occurred when Rooks wanted to expand the Ren Zone to the factory West of 131 and the city said "enough Ren Zones for residential."

 

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php/topic/32466-grand-rapids-renaissance-zones/?p=615222

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I am all for affordable, workforce housing, but it needs to be integrated with market rate housing. My view is that you should have 2 or 3 times as much market housing as affordable housing to benefit from greater redevelopment, business location, retail expansion, etc. The community has invested tremendous resources into the Urban Market, and a portion of the rational is to spur greater redevelopment. I question if exclusively affordable housing is the type of development we had hoped to induce. 

 

I will go again go back to this is a function of the state policy. The current state redevelopment has skewed too far into the affordable housing arena, at the expense of a more diverse of state-supported redevelopment products. Snyder keeps on talking about the need for investment in urban areas and the desire to attract and retain college educated folks. Well, state policy does not reflect that desire.

 

Further, if I were the City, I would bring a wide array of stakeholders to the table to come up with a downtown housing plan that clearly delineates the community's desires. If their are market barriers to developing market rate housing, then those need to be articulated and collectively addressed to overcome. Their is an obvious need and desire for downtown housing, and building exclusively low-income housing gone too far is going to dampen that demand.

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I am all for affordable, workforce housing, but it needs to be integrated with market rate housing. My view is that you should have 2 or 3 times as much market housing as affordable housing to benefit from greater redevelopment, business location, retail expansion, etc. The community has invested tremendous resources into the Urban Market, and a portion of the rational is to spur greater redevelopment. I question if exclusively affordable housing is the type of development we had hoped to induce. 

 

I will go again go back to this is a function of the state policy. The current state redevelopment has skewed too far into the affordable housing arena, at the expense of a more diverse of state-supported redevelopment products. Snyder keeps on talking about the need for investment in urban areas and the desire to attract and retain college educated folks. Well, state policy does not reflect that desire.

 

Further, if I were the City, I would bring a wide array of stakeholders to the table to come up with a downtown housing plan that clearly delineates the community's desires. If their are market barriers to developing market rate housing, then those need to be articulated and collectively addressed to overcome. Their is an obvious need and desire for downtown housing, and building exclusively low-income housing gone too far is going to dampen that demand.

 

 

I agree, it's all about a balanced portfolio of options.

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I remember a couple years ago, all the downtown market rate apartments were nearly full. Does anyone know the status of them now? Gallery, Plaza, 616, 38, icon? Plus Mckay is adding apartments to there building.

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I remember a couple years ago, all the downtown market rate apartments were nearly full. Does anyone know the status of them now? Gallery, Plaza, 616, 38, icon? Plus Mckay is adding apartments to there building.

Anecdotally I've heard most complexes are more than 90 percent occupied. 616 continues to say they have a waiting list in the hundreds. 

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How long does a development using LIHTC remain dedicated to low income residents?  If it is for a short period of time, say 5 years, then it isn't a real problem, at least not now. if it remains in perpetuity, then that is a real issue and the state/city needs to step in and change their policy/programs to encourage market rate developments. as discussed earlier, in a different thread, the consultant that came through last year (or maybe the year before) identified the quantity of low income housing as an obstacle to development of downtown.  of course, the average income in downtown is less than 10k per the census, so even with low income housing there is a lot of room for improvement and low income housing on it's own wouldn't stop that number from increasing dramatically.

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There are too many low income houseing units in downtown. We are all aware of the recent population increase among young working people. I currently know of 5 friends, all under 30 with full time jobs, who are looking for houseing downtown. I hear them comlain weekly that they cannot find anything that fits their sallary requirements, so they are forced to live farther out in west grand, michigan oaks, and kentwood. My wife and I are also both working full-time and are expecting a baby in late June. We want to move farther downtown, but 4:5 housing places wont allow us to live there becaue we are too stable with decent enough jobs. Apparently no one downtown wants a stable young family, they are all seeking college age studenets, and people near the poverty line. In Michigan Oaks, we currently pay $585 for a good condition 900sq ft 2bedroom, we would be happy paying 700-800 closer to downtown but cant find a thing.

 

So I agree that LIHTC buildings are great, but not when 85% of the housing downtown is that way, with another 3 buildings being converted. Its forcing the most stereotypical split of inner city housing; huge numbers of low income, small numbers of high rise condos, and upper middle class housing, but once again stable single adults and young families leave for the fringes and suburbs.

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 http://www.michigan.gov/documents/mshda/mshda_li_qap_2013_2014_score_sum_final_391278_7.pdf

 

See page 9.

 

It is a 45 year commitment to get full points awarded. Virtually all applicants will extend their commitment to LIHTC standards to win these points. The minimum commitment is 30 years.

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I think we're taking valuable real estate and selling its soul to the devil. A 30-45 year commitment? We're locking up prime real estate and assuring that these areas will remain low income for the quarter to half century? Wow. That is short-sighted. I'm all for a good healthy mix of income levels, but right now it seems like we're only building low income housing. :(

 

Joe

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It can actually be just as bad for low-income people, as well.  Some of the low-income-exclusive places downtown have three-year waiting lists, which often in practice are much longer because veterans and the disabled get to move ahead in the queue.  The reality is there's a huge shortage in both markets and the demand is not being met.

 

There are too many low income houseing units in downtown. We are all aware of the recent population increase among young working people. I currently know of 5 friends, all under 30 with full time jobs, who are looking for houseing downtown. I hear them comlain weekly that they cannot find anything that fits their sallary requirements, so they are forced to live farther out in west grand, michigan oaks, and kentwood. My wife and I are also both working full-time and are expecting a baby in late June. We want to move farther downtown, but 4:5 housing places wont allow us to live there becaue we are too stable with decent enough jobs. Apparently no one downtown wants a stable young family, they are all seeking college age studenets, and people near the poverty line. In Michigan Oaks, we currently pay $585 for a good condition 900sq ft 2bedroom, we would be happy paying 700-800 closer to downtown but cant find a thing.

 

So I agree that LIHTC buildings are great, but not when 85% of the housing downtown is that way, with another 3 buildings being converted. Its forcing the most stereotypical split of inner city housing; huge numbers of low income, small numbers of high rise condos, and upper middle class housing, but once again stable single adults and young families leave for the fringes and suburbs.

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Even if demand is high, the city needs a plan. Low income housing, densely clustered in one neighborhood is going to hurt revitalization efforts. They need to spread it around and look for opportunities to have mixed neighborhoods throughout the city.

 

Joe

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Looks like Tallhouse should come back, but as market rate apartments......( i know i know, im sorry)

 

It seems that if the market is demanding more housing, sooner rather then later we are going to get more housing. I can name off a handful of great locations to put new low income and martet rate housing, so diversity shouldnt be an issue. I have a gut feeling that some new projects are in the works!!!!  .02

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83 apartments, along with 15,000 sf of commercial space planned for this building.

 

http://www.woodtv.com/dpp/news/local/grand_rapids/old-klingmans-warehouse-to-be-turned-into-apartments

 

All 83 low income LIHTC apartments. That's right local media, more low income apartments downtown.

 

Just in case you don't believe me, here's a snapshot of the breakdown on the agenda:

 

9355556294_05d354098c_o.jpg

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I wonder if the lot between the Klingman Lofts and Baker Lofts will be used for parking.

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Groan...

 

I hope someone builds a parking garage. A surface lot will kill the aesthetics and continuity between these developments. That is too large of a piece of land to devote to a used car lot.

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If they were to knock down the "garage" building on the site and put in a surface lot you can get roughly 54 spaces squeezed in there if you utilized the alley as a lane.

 

vuy9.jpg

 

To get 78 spaces on that lot they will need a 2 level deck with 39 spaces on each level.

Edited by Gorath

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All 83 low income LIHTC apartments. That's right local media, more low income apartments downtown.

 

Just in case you don't believe me, here's a snapshot of the breakdown on the agenda:

 

9355556294_05d354098c_o.jpg

 

32 million development and the "investor" is putting only 600k of their own money into it? That can't be right can it?

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32 million development and the "investor" is putting only 600k of their own money into it? That can't be right can it?

I wish I understood the math on this stuff.

In regard to the parking, an old plan I saw for this building showed some parking in the basement level, which can be accessed by Wealthy St.

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Are there enough low-income jobs in the city to support all these low-income housing units?  Or are all these people going to have to commute out to the suburbs to work at Wal-Mart, etc.?

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