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orlandoguy

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This looks like a really nice development for College Park.  Hopefully the buildings fronting Edgewater will receive a proper façade upgrade and the sidewalks will be expanded.

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^^

That's fantastic.

 

It looks like there is a garage for the businesses lining Edgewater as well as a garage for the complex itself.  Those businesses would otherwise lose their rear parking.

 

This will create great density along with Wellsley.

 

It's interesting.  The Princeton (10), The Ivy (12), and Mills Park (1) are at those  three different points on the face of the clock with downtown in the center. Sodo would be at 6 o'clock.  These are near-in downtown urban residential developments sprouting up.

Edited by jrs2

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I wasn't able to make it to the public meeting on this project.  Judging by the Facebook responses though, the people in attendance were overwhelmingly against the project, which is no surprise.  Did anyone go and was there any new information shared?

Edited by SuperMan11MS

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We did an in-depth look at The Princeton at College Park and for the first time gave our take on the project: http://bungalower.com/2014/09/our-take-princeton-college-park/

Feel free to leave your thoughts in the comments :)

 

Thanks Matt.  As a college park resident I appreciate the well-researched peice.  I've found myself in the middle of all the "passion" regarding this property since it's nearby my house - most of my neighbors (and even Mrs Universe_Explorer!) are against it and I find I'm frequently the only one arguing in support.  I wish it was condos, but I understand the market doesn't support that. 

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I love mixed density like Thornton Park, and would love to see this project happen in College Park. I will go out on a limb and say many residents of College Park live there to be in close proximity to the shops and restaurants on Edgewater. More density = more people patronizing those businesses obviously. Sure you will have more car traffic, but the increased foot traffic on Edgewater is a good tradeoff. Really my only complaint about it is the design which is not exactly interesting.

Edited by Pete C

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Agree with Pete C -- its a good development from a density perspective.  Architecturally, it's rather bland and I think College Park could do better with a Thornton Park style development.

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Matt, solid fact-based writing!

 

I also would like to know if Re-Think the Princeton is ok with the Princeton project provided they follow the Vision Plan?  Are they just against it and hiding behind the Vision Plan as a tool or are they against it because it doesn't follow the Vision Plan?

 

I'm not pro/anti the Princeton, but I'm definitely anti groups that categorically despise something and pick a convenient stance to hide behind.  I don't live up there, I rarely even go within 5 miles of there.  I have no dog in that hunt.

 

If the Princeton meets the Vision Plan, according to the info in the comment by that Mary Travis lady, they should give it their full blessing.  They claim they are against the project because the developers don't meet the Vision Plan.

 

My questions to Re-Think the Princeton would be: so if/when they do meet that plan, you'll support them?  Because the Vision Plan is the key, right?  It's compromise you seek, not tanking the project?

 

 

 

I 100% agree with you Matt, honestly by both sides would go a long way in cases like this.

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It's not my hood so I'm staying away from forming an opinion - but do these people consider The Wellesley as something that made CP worse off?

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Can't believe I managed to read every comment on that post. Some very passionate individuals on this topic.

 

Is the argument really about traffic? That doesn't seem logical to me. Smells like nimbyism.
 

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I live at/ own pro two blocks from the proposed site and I will be able to see it when it's done. 1.) What's there now in the island doesn't "fit" with a vibrant downtown college park. 2.) I'm fine with apartments that are up scale. Other owners who rent their run down homes for premium prices won't be. 3.) businesses need people to survive 4.) the existing condos are an eyesore because nothing comes close to it in height. 5.) I wish the development had a retail component and reduce the overnight cars.

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I live at/ own pro two blocks from the proposed site and I will be able to see it when it's done. 1.) What's there now in the island doesn't "fit" with a vibrant downtown college park. 2.) I'm fine with apartments that are up scale. Other owners who rent their run down homes for premium prices won't be. 3.) businesses need people to survive 4.) the existing condos are an eyesore because nothing comes close to it in height. 5.) I wish the development had a retail component and reduce the overnight cars.

I believe this is probably one of the largest factors.  I actually looked up there several years ago to either buy/rent and I saw Parramore houses with Winter PAHHHK prices.

 

Well, that's hyperbole, but you get the point.

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It's not 100% clear that they would support it. Honestly I have had many conversations with people against it and they usually start with "we don't want an exceptions given." When I explain that they are only getting one exception (as outlined in the article) they tell me I should talk to their planning person because they aren't 100% sure on the details....but they KNOW there are exceptions being given. I'm not trying to pick on MaryTravis in the comments...I have had that exact same conversation many times (in person, via e-mail and on facebook). I think that someone should have done a better job at explaining the difference between zoning, future land use, and vision plans. This is where everyone gets lost.

 

To be clear there are things I don't like about the development...but is there ever a project you are going to agree with 100%?

 

Thanks to everyone for the support. Oh and I've always been a "We" :) we do have some folks helping us write...and will be hiring more soon!

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I want to preface this next comment with a strong warning that I'm not trying to pull politics into this.  It is a comment on the style of hiding behind a convenient argument and it involves a political topic.  I am not criticizing your beliefs either way on the subject.

 

 

A neighbor man I know is MOSTLY a very kind person, but he's older and has... how do you politely say this... some built-in prejudices that he seems to try hard to change, but doesn't always succeed in actually changing.  He has been a registered Democrat for a long time, I'm not sure if all his life or not, but he voted Republican these past two elections on the grounds that Obamacare will seriously mess up his life and still claims it does.

 

Which to many people is a valid and popular belief.  I'm not commenting pro or con, just about the convenient argument.

 

He has found out as a retiree (and admitted as much) that it hasn't messed up his life at all.  In fact, in his family's case, it has been a real blessing.  His daughter is in her 40s, has children, lost her job, has been working 2 part-time jobs, had to move in with him, and has used these benefits in line with how they are intended.  It has been a game-changer in their lives. 

 

I understand this is a case-by-case thing and subjective to your political beliefs.  In their case, it's been a really good thing.

 

He still blames everything on Obamacare.  He often starts sentences on the President with things like "It's not because he's black or anything, but Obamacare..." and "You know, I'm a big fan of diversity, but Obamacare..."  When it has done nothing but help his particular family.  You question him about it and he says similar things to what Matt said above "Well, you'd have to look it up online, I'm not an expert, but I know it's destroying the very fabric of American society!"  At this point, it takes a 10 second sentence to realize it has nothing to do with that program and everything to do with old prejudices. 

 

 

 

I think people want to seem like good people and, at least on some level, realize their biases need to be legitimized by hiding behind some convenient argument.  They don't want this project built, but they don't want to seem like bad neighbors.  They heard someone say that this project was getting exemptions, so that seems like a legit way to not like this project.  They stay good neighbors, but get what they want.  It's a flaw of polite society, you find a legit reason to be impolite and you don't have that nagging conscience issue.

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I want to preface this next comment with a strong warning that I'm not trying to pull politics into this.  It is a comment on the style of hiding behind a convenient argument and it involves a political topic.  I am not criticizing your beliefs either way on the subject.

 

 

A neighbor man I know is MOSTLY a very kind person, but he's older and has... how do you politely say this... some built-in prejudices that he seems to try hard to change, but doesn't always succeed in actually changing.  He has been a registered Democrat for a long time, I'm not sure if all his life or not, but he voted Republican these past two elections on the grounds that Obamacare will seriously mess up his life and still claims it does.

 

Which to many people is a valid and popular belief.  I'm not commenting pro or con, just about the convenient argument.

 

He has found out as a retiree (and admitted as much) that it hasn't messed up his life at all.  In fact, in his family's case, it has been a real blessing.  His daughter is in her 40s, has children, lost her job, has been working 2 part-time jobs, had to move in with him, and has used these benefits in line with how they are intended.  It has been a game-changer in their lives. 

 

I understand this is a case-by-case thing and subjective to your political beliefs.  In their case, it's been a really good thing.

 

He still blames everything on Obamacare.  He often starts sentences on the President with things like "It's not because he's black or anything, but Obamacare..." and "You know, I'm a big fan of diversity, but Obamacare..."  When it has done nothing but help his particular family.  You question him about it and he says similar things to what Matt said above "Well, you'd have to look it up online, I'm not an expert, but I know it's destroying the very fabric of American society!"  At this point, it takes a 10 second sentence to realize it has nothing to do with that program and everything to do with old prejudices. 

 

 

 

I think people want to seem like good people and, at least on some level, realize their biases need to be legitimized by hiding behind some convenient argument.  They don't want this project built, but they don't want to seem like bad neighbors.  They heard someone say that this project was getting exemptions, so that seems like a legit way to not like this project.  They stay good neighbors, but get what they want.  It's a flaw of polite society, you find a legit reason to be impolite and you don't have that nagging conscience issue.

 

I think it can be more broadly summarized as: people decide what they want or believe, then they find the rationalizations for that belief.  In other words, smart people are good at rationalizing beliefs they came to hold through very dumb ways. I'm sure some of that is in play here.

 

Like I said, smells like nimbyism, which goes hand-in-hand with prejudices held.

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Is there no construction proposed along Edgewater?  I always thought the project was located right on Edgewater.  Is the one story building along Edgewater going to remain as is with the new development being built behind the existing parking lot?

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Is there no construction proposed along Edgewater?  I always thought the project was located right on Edgewater.  Is the one story building along Edgewater going to remain as is with the new development being built behind the existing parking lot?

 

Based on what I understand, those buildings will remain on Edgewater. What you said is correct: the new development will be behind that parking lot.

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Someone once posted a pic of the intersection of Edgewater between Smith and Princeton on one of Facebook's Orlando history boards, which led to the inevitable moaning and groaning about the Wellesley. Having grown up in College Park, I noted that it essentially replaced a nondescript bank branch and an even more nondescript gas station and that I considered it an improvement. The ensuing response would have led you to believe I had espoused torching the White House. People are odd.  

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Pretty much as expected.  Chop some off the one end, add some to the other end and it will be approved. 

 

It will then meet all the obligations it has to meet and there will still be outrage, but on a some other ground now.

 

http://www.wesh.com/news/orlando-city-leaders-to-decide-on-controversial-college-park-complex/28312090

 

 

 

 

ETA:

It was funny because I actually KNOW a few of the people who were interviewed on the local news the other night.  Know 2 of them quite well.  Still don't agree with them.

Edited by HankStrong

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Pretty much as expected.  Chop some off the one end, add some to the other end and it will be approved. 

 

It will then meet all the obligations it has to meet and there will still be outrage, but on a some other ground now.

 

http://www.wesh.com/news/orlando-city-leaders-to-decide-on-controversial-college-park-complex/28312090

 

 

 

 

ETA:

It was funny because I actually KNOW a few of the people who were interviewed on the local news the other night.  Know 2 of them quite well.  Still don't agree with them.

 

Developer told us he wont go above the five floors...I think part of the reason is cost of construction in addition to knowing it won't make people happy.

 

http://bungalower.com/2014/09/council-votes-move-princeton-college-park-density-closer-edgewater-drive/

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