St. George City Incorporation News

[garrett_225]

Cajun is right. The residents of St. George aren't the reason things have reached a tipping point. All BR had to do was hear them out and treat them fairly. Apparently that was too complicated. EBR schools made their own mess. Now they will likely be stuck with it. 

Edited September 24, 2013 by garrett_225

[cajun]

Hopefully charters and vouchers (or some kind of alternative) won't leave EBR public school students and their parents stuck with the mistake of their leaders. They've been getting screwed for decades.

Edited September 24, 2013 by cajun

[richyb83]

Opponents of City of St. George set public meeting

A group that has previously fought the creation of a new school district in southeast East Baton Rouge Parish has slated a public meeting to begin taking on the effort to incorporate a new City of St. George—the first step in a new strategy to create the breakaway school district. One Community, One School District says it will hold the meeting at 6:30 p.m. on Thursday, Oct. 10, at the Bluebonnet branch library, 9200 Bluebonnet Blvd. "Representatives of OCOSD will discuss how the proposed incorporation of the City of St. George will affect taxes and access to public education," says the group in an announcement for the meeting. The move comes as those behind the push for a new school district have begun ramping up their efforts. The group recently established a website and began collecting signatures on a petition to get the incorporation issue on the ballot. According to the website, the City of St. George would measure 84.6 square miles—making it bigger than Baton Rouge, which is 76 square miles—and would have an estimated population of 107,262 people, making it the fifth-largest city in Louisiana

 

http://www.businessreport.com/section/daily-reportPM

Edited October 3, 2013 by richyb83

[Antrell Williams]

Ehh, futile attempt I assume. St. George is destined to live.

[cajun]

If I understand this correctly, opponents are outraged that residents of St George have the audacity to voice their displeasure of being a property and sales tax farm for the rest of the parish.

The whole "how dare they not pay for our public services!" argument is incredibly selfish. Some in Atlanta have complained regularly when suburbs try to incorporate. That's pretty much an admission of dependency on someone else's tax dollars.

I'm not sure why Louisiana clings to that mindset so much. The whole "don't tax you, don't tax me, tax the man behind the tree" has hints of Huey Long era populists politicians. Maybe this trend is derived from that period. That mindset is pretty much what's causing this. The men "behind the trees" are fed up and want to see results.

This district "behind the trees" has gotten the shaft for decades by EBR public schools. Had they provided acceptable service, the need for a new district wouldn't exist. It's ironic because that's just another perspective from the same argument presented by opponents. Had tax revenue been spent in that district in the past, it would be more than just a wallet for the school board...and they wouldn't be worried about losing something that they actually have to fund. Had there been the expenses and liabilities associated with having more than one lone high school for an area with 70000+ residents, the board would probably be more apathetic about this proposal.

Edited October 3, 2013 by cajun

[BRcharacter]

If I understand this correctly, opponents are outraged that residents of St George have the audacity to voice their displeasure of being a property and sales tax farm for the rest of the parish.

The whole "how dare they not pay for our public services!" argument is incredibly selfish. Some in Atlanta have complained regularly when suburbs try to incorporate. That's pretty much an admission of dependency on someone else's tax dollars.

I'm not sure why Louisiana clings to that mindset so much. The whole "don't tax you, don't tax me, tax the man behind the tree" has hints of Huey Long era populists politicians. Maybe this trend is derived from that period. That mindset is pretty much what's causing this. The men "behind the trees" are fed up and want to see results.

This district "behind the trees" has gotten the shaft for decades by EBR public schools. Had they provided acceptable service, the need for a new district wouldn't exist. It's ironic because that's just another perspective from the same argument presented by opponents. Had tax revenue been spent in that district in the past, it would be more than just a wallet for the school board...and they wouldn't be worried about losing something that they actually have to fund. Had there been the expenses and liabilities associated with having more than one lone high school for an area with 70000+ residents, the board would probably be more apathetic about this proposal.

 

Could not disagree more.  

 

We are not Atlanta or Houston.  We do not have the population to know if a move like this will succeed or not because we are in fact not those areas. A giant chunk of the property tax and sales tax is generated by the mall of LA, Perkins Rowe and other sizable businesses that were built on land not annexed into BR (as I understand it).  Also, last I checked EXXON and Towne Centre are not incorporated...Maybe you should find a way to add these to your figures also.

 

The areas you speak of were built where they were built because of interstate access and available land. Sure, there is a lot of new stuff south of I-10 (mostly built in the last 20-25 years), but the entire population of BR spends money in that area because developers abandoned the "old" areas as they always do.  Are you forgetting great areas like Old Goodwood, Tara, Broadmoor, Sherwood forest, Bocage, Southdowns, the garden district, Kenilworth just to name a few don't reside in your St. Whatever despite being right there next door. Do the folks that live in these neighborhoods fall into your populist mindset? Do WE not pay property taxes also or spend OUR money at the same mall?  I know my property tax went up $300 for CAT's this past year, did yours?  It is simply a shame how eagerly some people want to jump on this knee-jerk reaction train without REALLY knowing where it is going.  It's simple minded.

 

It's not that I don't respect innovation and the freedom for communities to plan their future, but this is NOT just YOUR COMMUNITY!  It's MY COMMUNITY ALSO and I'm tired of people like you ripping the hard working residents of Baton Rouge. Perhaps if people stopped running, stood firm and contributed you might have more power to change and shape the infrastructure and community that already exists.  Of course it might take more than a year to make real progress and reverse the course we are on...The never ending sprint for the next pasture limits our ability to spearhead our efforts in one place and dilutes our finite resources...Not that I'm anti-suburb, but Baton Rouge still has a long way to go before we consider ourselves even a Nashville level city.

 

And just so you know this is not so much a personal attack as it is frustration with hearing this same baloney over and over again.  I do in fact respect other peoples opinions, but I disagree with the implications that this is a good thing for OUR city and the criticisms aimed at the citizens of BR in general.

Edited October 5, 2013 by BRcharacter

[cajun]

Could not disagree more.  

 

We are not Atlanta or Houston.  We do not have the population to know if a move like this will succeed or not because we are in fact not those areas. A giant chunk of the property tax and sales tax is generated by the mall of LA, Perkins Rowe and other sizable businesses that were built on land not annexed into BR (as I understand it).  Also, last I checked EXXON and Towne Centre are not incorporated...Maybe you should find a way to add these to your figures also.

 

 

What figures?  The area in question is actually larger than one of the incorporated cities I was referring to in the Atlanta metro. 

 

Houston has many ISDs that are smaller than this proposed district as well.   

 

 

The areas you speak of were built where they were built because of interstate access and available land. Sure, there is a lot of new stuff south of I-10 (mostly built in the last 20-25 years), but the entire population of BR spends money in that area because developers abandoned the "old" areas as they always do.  Are you forgetting great areas like Old Goodwood, Tara, Broadmoor, Sherwood forest, Bocage, Southdowns, the garden district, Kenilworth just to name a few don't reside in your St. Whatever despite being right there next door. Do the folks that live in these neighborhoods fall into your populist mindset? Do WE not pay property taxes also or spend OUR money at the same mall?  I know my property tax went up $300 for CAT's this past year, did yours?  It is simply a shame how eagerly some people want to jump on this knee-jerk reaction train without REALLY knowing where it is going.  It's simple minded.

 

 

Buried within the platitudes and emotional appeals in your post is the exact selfish attitude to which I was referring.  The St. George area is responsible for the bulk of the sales tax base in the parish.  Your argument is that they should be left as an unincoporated colony for Baton Rouge and the parish school board to take advantage of is selfish and unreasonable.    Somehow East Baton Rouge parish schools and Baton Rouge feels that they are entitled to the bulk of this tax revenue without addressing the needs of the area.   The problems with the public schools have been going on for decades.   The St. George area residents - particularly the Shenandoah residents - have been sand bagged by the school board for years.   

 

It's not St. Whatever.   It's St. George. They make up 2/3rds of the parish tax base.  You may have nothing but contempt for the people who live there or their right to incorporate, but that doesn't change the fact that this decision will be made by the people within the district.    Your dismissal of their legitimacy is pretty much how they've been treated by the East Baton Rouge parish school board.    The amount of tax revenue this district brings in makes them legitimate and gives them leverage.

 

The district behind the tree has gotten the shaft on public schools by a school board that was about as apathetic and dismissive of their needs as you are.   St. George accounts for the bulk of the parish tax base....they have the right to demand better public services.  Since changing the system from within hasn't worked, the St. George area residents have tried to setup their own school district without incorporating.  Both efforts were shot down by the state legislature.    

 

As I've pointed out several times in previous posts, this reluctant incorporation is not an indictment on East Baton Rouge parish leadership....but a last ditch effort to correct decades of terrible decisions by the East Baton Rouge parish school board - which does not have the best interests of any child or parent in the parish - including those within the Baton Rouge city limits.   

 

One day, St. George will be another "old" part of town.   I fully support their effort to retain their tax base as more and more developments occur in Ascension and Livingston.    They can't make the same mistakes Baton Rouge made.

 

You mention the CATS tax, which I've opposed from the start.   It's another result of the populist attitude that is pervasive in south Louisiana.  The property tax district was gerrymandered to specifically take advantage of Baton Rouge taxpayers.   Since it is subject to homestead exemption (a point not made clear to voters of the tax which I believe makes it illegal), the overwhelming majority of the people who use the terrible service offered by CATS are those that simply do not contribute to the tax revenue allocated to fund the system.   The system as it is setup now makes CATS's largest stakeholders those least likely to care if their services absolutely suck.  The CATS board has been poor stewards of public money in the past and they'll continue to operate like that in the future.

 

St. George won't destroy Baton Rouge.   Too many unfair taxes like the CATS tax will.   An extra $300 per year isn't going to hurt very much, but it's just a matter of time before other gerrymandered tax districts are setup in the future.   Demonstrably higher taxes relative to the neighboring areas, especially to fund programs the actual taxpayers aren't going to take advantage of, is the equivalent to a terminal cancer on a city.   

 

 

It's not that I don't respect innovation and the freedom for communities to plan their future, but this is NOT just YOUR COMMUNITY!  It's MY COMMUNITY ALSO and I'm tired of people like you ripping the hard working residents of Baton Rouge. Perhaps if people stopped running, stood firm and contributed you might have more power to change and shape the infrastructure and community that already exists.  Of course it might take more than a year to make real progress and reverse the course we are on...The never ending sprint for the next pasture limits our ability to spearhead our efforts in one place and dilutes our finite resources...Not that I'm anti-suburb, but Baton Rouge still has a long way to go before we consider ourselves even a Nashville level city.

 

And just so you know this is not so much a personal attack as it is frustration with hearing this same baloney over and over again.  I do in fact respect other peoples opinions, but I disagree with the implications that this is a good thing for OUR city and the criticisms aimed at the citizens of BR in general.

 

 

I'm not sure what emotion appeal you are trying to make here.  The currently unincorporated parts of East Baton Rouge that make up the St. George area have worked with the East Baton Rouge parish school board for decades.   They've exhausted all other options.    This was just a matter of time when Lee High was closed and not retained as a traditional public school.  

 

St. George is the best solution I've seen so far to keep the tax base within East Baton Rouge instead of farther and farther down I-10 and I-12.  Baton Rouge depends on tax revenue collected within the parish (including the refineries and shopping districts).   An erosion of the parish tax base is only going to hurt Baton Rouge in the future.   

 

This won't happen unless the people within the St. George district are on board.   It's their community.   They have to deal with the traffic and crime that comes with having the Mall of La or Siegen lane in their back yard.   It's their neighborhoods people from all over the region drive through to shop.    They have every right to demand that their tax base is not taken advantage of.

Edited October 5, 2013 by cajun

[garrett_225]

 

 

The areas you speak of were built where they were built because of interstate access and available land. Sure, there is a lot of new stuff south of I-10 (mostly built in the last 20-25 years), but the entire population of BR spends money in that area because developers abandoned the "old" areas as they always do.  Are you forgetting great areas like Old Goodwood, Tara, Broadmoor, Sherwood forest, Bocage, Southdowns, the garden district, Kenilworth just to name a few don't reside in your St. Whatever despite being right there next door. Do the folks that live in these neighborhoods fall into your populist mindset? Do WE not pay property taxes also or spend OUR money at the same mall?  I know my property tax went up $300 for CAT's this past year, did yours?  It is simply a shame how eagerly some people want to jump on this knee-jerk reaction train without REALLY knowing where it is going.  It's simple minded.

 

 

 

The families living in the neighborhoods you mention here are largely affluent and have already made a conscious choice to remain inside the city and utilize private schools. In many cases, their kids attend the private school they themselves attended as children. Consider St. Joseph's Academy, Catholic High, Episcopal, Our Lady of Mercy, etc as a part of their culture. They aren't going to jump ship in large numbers to take advantage of St. George public schools. Not the way the middle class jumped ship for Livingston and Ascension public schools. 

 

In other words, the people in Bocage, Goodwood, Garden District, Southdowns, etc. can afford to stay in Baton Rouge. 

[Antrell Williams]

The families living in the neighborhoods you mention here are largely affluent and have already made a conscious choice to remain inside the city and utilize private schools. In many cases, their kids attend the private school they themselves attended as children. Consider St. Joseph's Academy, Catholic High, Episcopal, Our Lady of Mercy, etc as a part of their culture. They aren't going to jump ship in large numbers to take advantage of St. George public schools. Not the way the middle class jumped ship for Livingston and Ascension public schools. 

 

In other words, the people in Bocage, Goodwood, Garden District, Southdowns, etc. can afford to stay in Baton Rouge. 

I think their desire to remain in Baton Rouge, partly because they may have grown up in the city or because they prefer a more urban lifestyle, whichever the case, want to live in Baton Rouge and I don't think anything will change their minds. It would make more sense, financially, for an affluent family with children to move to Dutchtown and buy a large home and save money from private schools. The people that still live in the city want to live in the city and are more than willing to make sacrifices to remain doing so. This isn't the case for everyone but it's largely the case for Southdowns or Old Goodwood/Mid-City South residents. The people in OSBR and Mid-City North (does anyone even use that term?) likely have no choice whether or not to relocate, as they can't afford to do so.

[all2neat]

Fact remains though that this is unincorporated land amd the residents are free to incorporate or not. They could allow themselves to be annexed into Baton Rouge proper or form their own city. To me this is a perfect example of why you annex land beyond where your residents live. This is something Louosiana is not good at.

[Antrell Williams]

Fact remains though that this is unincorporated land amd the residents are free to incorporate or not. They could allow themselves to be annexed into Baton Rouge proper or form their own city. To me this is a perfect example of why you annex land beyond where your residents live. This is something Louosiana is not good at.

So, you believe that Baton Rouge should have annexed this land decades ago?

[all2neat]

So, you believe that Baton Rouge should have annexed this land decades ago?

Yes I do, if it were possible.

[cajun]

Fact remains though that this is unincorporated land amd the residents are free to incorporate or not. They could allow themselves to be annexed into Baton Rouge proper or form their own city. To me this is a perfect example of why you annex land beyond where your residents live. This is something Louosiana is not good at.

Couldn't agree more.

Baton Rouge stopped annexing 30 years ago. There was really no need for it as the bulk of the sales tax base was in town and the merged parish and city government made it unnecessary- it still does in some ways.

Baton Rouge must focus efforts on residential developent downtown and on redevelopment of older neighborhoods. It has very little empty land to grow. It will face higher costs in the future as in fill development places a strain on it's already obsolete infrastructure. The city has to be incredibly careful not to discourage outside investment with high municipal taxes as well.

It's highly unlikely now that any developed area worth annexing will actually vote to be annexed.

Edited October 7, 2013 by cajun

[richyb83]

Not sure...really torn about this...positive & negative at the same time...

 

Fast start for St. George...2,000 signatures the 1st Week...No Time Limit to Gather 16,000 more...Can't find article in web that was in Capital City News

 

This is going to be interesting...Some are calling it a $money grab taking Mall of La, L'auberge casino, etc..

 

BR is relatively small with similar size cities when it comes to "Square Miles"...BR is only 77 sq miles...Little Rock 116; Mobile 118, Shreveport 103; Jackson 105.....I don't see St. George getting ALL of the proposed 107(or 85?)...Have a feeling BR will claim some of this; esp. west of I-10

 

There is not enough school space; & there are complaints that they are carving out a section of town that is wealthier  & whiter than the district they leave behind.....

 

Classroom shortage would hinder proposed St. George school system

 

If a new school district were to be created to go along with a proposed city of St. George, there immediately would be a problem of space, both sides of the St. George issue agreed Monday. The meeting was called by the group to discuss a number of items, but center stage was talk about the impacts of what a proposed new city and accompanying school district could have on education.

 

Davis said the proposed St. George area includes eight buildings that have a capacity of 5,000 seats, but there are 10,327 East Baton Rouge Parish school system students currently living in the area. “Immediately, the city of St. George is going to need to build new schools,” Davis said.

 

*rest of article*

http://theadvocate.com/home/7276465-125/st-george-city-school-opposition

[itsjustme3]

This is going to happen. This is all about the schools. The people see how it has worked for Zachary and want that for their kids.

[cajun]

The lack of education infrastructure in the area is justification for taking control of their own tax dollars. It's evidence that they've been getting the shaft for a long time.

They'll probably borrow against their tax revenue to fund a new high school somewhere around Bluebonnet or Perkins.

Edited October 16, 2013 by cajun

[timelordnerd]

The families living in the neighborhoods you mention here are largely affluent and have already made a conscious choice to remain inside the city and utilize private schools. In many cases, their kids attend the private school they themselves attended as children. Consider St. Joseph's Academy, Catholic High, Episcopal, Our Lady of Mercy, etc as a part of their culture. They aren't going to jump ship in large numbers to take advantage of St. George public schools. Not the way the middle class jumped ship for Livingston and Ascension public schools. 

 

In other words, the people in Bocage, Goodwood, Garden District, Southdowns, etc. can afford to stay in Baton Rouge. 

Hahaha people still admire Our Lady of Money, Mascona is a very political principle and I really do not like him.

This is going to happen. This is all about the schools. The people see how it has worked for Zachary and want that for their kids.

I feel that was different because in many ways Zachary was separate from BR Proper culturally. St. George is very much like BR proper.

[garrett_225]

Hahaha people still admire Our Lady of Money, Mascona is a very political principle and I really do not like him.

 

 

Our Lady of Money...

 

Thanks for making my point for me, timelordnerd! 

 

Old, white money isn't leaving town. 

Edited October 18, 2013 by garrett_225

[Antrell Williams]

Hahaha people still admire Our Lady of Money, Mascona is a very political principle and I really do not like him.

I feel that was different because in many ways Zachary was separate from BR Proper culturally. St. George is very much like BR proper.

St. George is just as separate from BR proper.

[richyb83]

'USA Today' spotlights city of St. George secession effort

Those behind an effort to carve out a new city called St. George in the southeast portion of East Baton Rouge Parish have garnered their first national headline. USA Today highlights their effort in a brief story titled “Latest secession seeker: Baton Rouge's richer side.” The story points up a study commissioned by BRAF and BRAC that was released on Sunday. According to the report, prepared by economist Jim Richardson, if supporters of the new city are successful, they will take roughly 40% of the city-parish sales tax revenue and create a $53 million shortfall in the city-parish budget. Norman Browning, who's leading the push for the new city, told Daily Report this morning that proponents of the breakaway city are meeting tonight to begin parsing through the report. “They (opponents) continue to talk about lost revenues, but they never address the reduced expenses,” says Browning, adding that his group is not likely to commission its own study on the issue. “Also, they make the assumption that the unincorporated area will not be paying any dollars into the city toward city services, and that is not true.” See the full USA Today article.

 

http://www.businessreport.com/section/daily-reportPM

[cajun]

I guess the concern from opponents, if I'm interpreting this correctly, is that Baton Rouge will no longer have a colony to exploit if this goes through.

Gold-plated town squares and massive decorative stage canopies aren't cheap.....

Edited December 3, 2013 by cajun

[itsjustme3]

I guess the concern from opponents, if I'm interpreting this correctly, is that Baton Rouge will no longer have a colony to exploit if this goes through.

Gold-plated town squares and massive decorative stage canopies aren't cheap.....

So how would St George be affected by that illegal CATS property tax? Does it become null and void?

[all2neat]

That's a good question.

[cajun]

So, you believe that Baton Rouge should have annexed this land decades ago?

That may have not been possible because of federal civil rights laws at the time designed to maintain or expand black representation locally. To put it frankly, the colony was too white and would have diluted the share of black population in the city.

BR would have had to annex empty land as it was developed....so you'd have to go waaay back. Some areas actually came into Baton Rouge this way. Given the haphazard development pattern and state laws that require city limits to be continuous, I don't think you'd see a much different outcome had Baton Rouge continued to go this route.

Until the talk of St George started happening, city leaders were happy having a tax base to exploit without having to work politically with people in the south whom they didn't agree with on most things. Had public services been provided at an acceptable level (particularly schools), the unincorporated area would have probably been just fine continuing on as they were.

I wonder if the Baton Rouge legislators that opposed the breakaway school district regret their decision at this point. This could also eventually pressure what is left of unincorporated Baton Rouge to join one of the other municipalities (Zachary or Central).

I'm kind of surprised Holden has been so vocal about his opposition stance to this. Many of his affluent supporters are in the unincorporated part of the parish in question, and he was elected to represent the entire parish. I think he may be making a political mistake by not remaining neutral. I'm guessing the recent momentum behind St George has ruffled some feathers in Baton Rouge. I noticed that their publicist managed to get a hit piece written up in Salon that seems to indicate that the city of Baton Rouge is splitting up, which is incorrect of course.

Edited December 3, 2013 by cajun

[itsjustme3]

Of course Holden is mad. He's going to have to make probably 50 mill in cuts. Too bad.