GRDadof3

20 Fulton E, Mixed Use Development

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Unfortunately, guessing what it will look like an a rendering vs. what actually gets built is almost pointless since so many things change. I hope it has a little bit of swagger in the end.

 

The exciting thing is the amount of activity it will add to the area. It'll definitely help the adjacent neighborhood and might help the retail at Fulton / Jefferson gain traction. That area has always struggled a bit, yet it could be a great little pocket of retail (remember when they called it "New Town" with Purple East and Music Expresso anchoring the area?).

 

Joe 

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Granted, but that drawing that popped up on the front page of the Press easily could have been drastically improved in 5 minutes with a few colored pencils with almost no change in materials.  Lose the horizontal divisions in the banding, add some symmetry, perhaps round off the side balconies in a small nod to the art moderne JA building.  That would do a lot for it.  I just worry that this is an awful lot of street frontage on Fulton.  What bothers me is that it this building will take up all of that space, and it will look like no one even bothered to try. 

 

Still, I don't want to be too critical--this is one that it would be very nice to see built.  Although I really, really hope they change the orientation and spruce up the design. 

 

 

Unfortunately, guessing what it will look like an a rendering vs. what actually gets built is almost pointless since so many things change.

Edited by x99

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You're not even really going to be able to see the upper floors. It's not like icon or river house where's not much else around. Perhaps if you're coming down the fulton hill. Even then, you're going to be looking at the "skinny end". Maybe coming up division.

I just have two words "tower crane" :)

I believe tower pinkster

Continuing.., tower pinkster/ja I believe will have ground floor retail space available. This may do wonders for that area, as joe mentioned.

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In the agenda, it gave a few more vantage points of this project.

 

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View from South Division looking North:

 

 

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11229441286_ab778cc0eb_z.jpg

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I still cant get over this. I was very excited for this project!

 

Well I don't think it's dead. They were awarded the Brownfield status they were seeking at the same meeting.

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20 East Fulton is SOOOOOOOO Chicago Gold Coast-looking!   Can't wait for the issue of tax credits to be overcome and for this structure to inspire more vertical infill at Metro Center intersection and the adjacent greater Heartside / Arena South / Cathedral Square / Southgate districts.  ALSO:  wouldn't the Tower Pinkster building <former JA Building> be well-served by recruiting service and fast food businesses that could turn the ground floor of that site into an 18-24 hour consumer services/food court pedestrian crossroads?  Imagine bays/kiosks for cell phone payments, USPS, Western Union/MoneyGram, McDonalds, Wendy's, Taco Bell, visitor information, automated bank branches, automated ticketing center for The Rapid-ITP/Ford Airport airlines/Greyhound, etc., etc., etc.  20 East Fulton would become an even more attractive option for living with a services hub like that right next door.

Edited by metrogrkid

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20 East Fulton is SOOOOOOOO Chicago Gold Coast-looking!   Can't wait for the issue of tax credits to be overcome and for this structure to inspire more vertical infill at Metro Center intersection and the adjacent greater Heartside / Arena South / Cathedral Square / Southgate districts.  ALSO:  wouldn't the Tower Pinkster building <former JA Building> be well-served by recruiting service and fast food businesses that could turn the ground floor of that site into an 18-24 hour consumer services/food court pedestrian crossroads?  Imagine bays/kiosks for cell phone payments, USPS, Western Union/MoneyGram, McDonalds, Wendy's, Taco Bell, visitor information, automated bank branches, automated ticketing center for The Rapid-ITP/Ford Airport airlines/Greyhound, etc., etc., etc.  20 East Fulton would become an even more attractive option for living with a services hub like that right next door.

I like this idea but would rather see local food venders rather than the "like food but not real food" chains.

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20 East Fulton is SOOOOOOOO Chicago Gold Coast-looking!   Can't wait for the issue of tax credits to be overcome and for this structure to inspire more vertical infill at Metro Center intersection and the adjacent greater Heartside / Arena South / Cathedral Square / Southgate districts.  ALSO:  wouldn't the Tower Pinkster building <former JA Building> be well-served by recruiting service and fast food businesses that could turn the ground floor of that site into an 18-24 hour consumer services/food court pedestrian crossroads?  Imagine bays/kiosks for cell phone payments, USPS, Western Union/MoneyGram, McDonalds, Wendy's, Taco Bell, visitor information, automated bank branches, automated ticketing center for The Rapid-ITP/Ford Airport airlines/Greyhound, etc., etc., etc.  20 East Fulton would become an even more attractive option for living with a services hub like that right next door.

 

I hope you're joking. That sounds awful, like some burned out strip mall in Wyoming. :)

 

I think it'd be great to see a pharmacy downtown though. It could provide a lot of those services you're talking about.

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I hope you're joking. That sounds awful, like some burned out strip mall in Wyoming. :)

 

I think it'd be great to see a pharmacy downtown though. It could provide a lot of those services you're talking about.

Okay I'm going to have fun with this one.

Don't we have enough drug dealers downtown?

I thought you were all for getting the drug users out of Heartside.

Having fun with you because I understand that drugs whether legal or illegal are drugs.

The Downtown Market is the Farmacy. :D

Edited by John E

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Okay I'm going to have fun with this one.

Don't we have enough drug dealers downtown?

I thought you were all for getting the drug users out of Heartside.

Having fun with you because I understand that drugs whether legal or illegal are drugs.

The Downtown Market is the Farmacy. :D

 

 

I know more than a few people who require medication to survive, and/or live normal lives. I don't really see the humor. But if it makes you laugh.

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20 East Fulton is SOOOOOOOO Chicago Gold Coast-looking!   Can't wait for the issue of tax credits to be overcome and for this structure to inspire more vertical infill at Metro Center intersection and the adjacent greater Heartside / Arena South / Cathedral Square / Southgate districts.  ALSO:  wouldn't the Tower Pinkster building <former JA Building> be well-served by recruiting service and fast food businesses that could turn the ground floor of that site into an 18-24 hour consumer services/food court pedestrian crossroads?  Imagine bays/kiosks for cell phone payments, USPS, Western Union/MoneyGram, McDonalds, Wendy's, Taco Bell, visitor information, automated bank branches, automated ticketing center for The Rapid-ITP/Ford Airport airlines/Greyhound, etc., etc., etc.  20 East Fulton would become an even more attractive option for living with a services hub like that right next door.

 

Funny, I was just thinking it looked very "Evanston."   :)  And not in a bad way.

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RegalTDP:

 

When I had to study the Top 100 Cities in America and the Top 100 Cities of the World with my urban planning classmates at Baltimore MD's historic Morgan, Chicagoland was definitely one of the quintessential subject metros we were required to examine.  My weigh-in on GR's Metro Center intersection of Division and Fulton was informed greatly by the whole northern Chicago coastal flow and function of residential highrises - including Evanston.

 

It is important to note that 35,000 college students are a quintessential part of Downtown GR with the vast majority being within a 5-10 minute walk of GR's Metro Center.  The tenant suggestions that I contributed for Tower Pinkster's ground floor reflect what would likely be attractive to that Millennials audience in lieu of their high concentration in relation to the sites in discussion here.  As my comments were suggestions, they were meant to inspire thinking beyond and outside the box and to reflect successful similar urban uses that I was afforded the opportunity to study and to experience personally in Chicago, Washington/Baltimore, Toronto, Philadelphia, Boston and New York City - all world-class regions that GR's growth and transformation can learn example-case and cautionary-case development lessons from.

 

Metrogrkid

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Metrokid, I commend you on your research of what Millennials prefer in their search for great urban places, and it certainly seems like you are heading in the right direction in terms of the questions you pose. You are examining the right cities and have identified the key intersection in Grand Rapids. Demographically, you are correct that the 35,000 college students is a key local attribute that one has to take into account (I will trust that the number is correct).

 

However, we may have a differing opinion as to the market demands by the downtown Millennial demographic specifically and the college demographic generally. This cohort certainly wants fast casual food, but they are not the type to frequent McDonald's, Wendy's, Taco Bell, etc.  The demographic desired for downtown Grand Rapids desires fresh, quality, affordable and quick service food. Think food trucks in a building. Original, local and not a chain. You are right in the 18-24 hour service.  While some of the service needs you listed are needed, most could be accomplished in one kiosk that handles them all. Things like "cell phone payments, USPS, Western Union/MoneyGram, ...automated bank branches, automated ticketing center for The Rapid-ITP/Ford Airport airlines/Greyhound" are ancillary services that augment a successful downtown, not add vitality to it. These are services that should be integrated throughout the downtown, but not necessarily featured as a focal point of the city's focal intersection. Think of your favorite Chicago intersection or in New York . My favorite intersection in my favorite world cities feature local flare, not the soulless services and chains that I can find literally in a million other places.  This type of vitality is what Fulton and Division deserves. 

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RegalTDP:

 

When I had to study the Top 100 Cities in America and the Top 100 Cities of the World with my urban planning classmates at Baltimore MD's historic Morgan, Chicagoland was definitely one of the quintessential subject metros we were required to examine.  My weigh-in on GR's Metro Center intersection of Division and Fulton was informed greatly by the whole northern Chicago coastal flow and function of residential highrises - including Evanston.

 

It is important to note that 35,000 college students are a quintessential part of Downtown GR with the vast majority being within a 5-10 minute walk of GR's Metro Center.  The tenant suggestions that I contributed for Tower Pinkster's ground floor reflect what would likely be attractive to that Millennials audience in lieu of their high concentration in relation to the sites in discussion here.  As my comments were suggestions, they were meant to inspire thinking beyond and outside the box and to reflect successful similar urban uses that I was afforded the opportunity to study and to experience personally in Chicago, Washington/Baltimore, Toronto, Philadelphia, Boston and New York City - all world-class regions that GR's growth and transformation can learn example-case and cautionary-case development lessons from.

 

Metrogrkid

 

n/m

 

 

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drove by Monday and saw some sort of crew deep drilling down into the soil under the parking lot, not sure however if that is in any way related to this project...

 

Soil testing?

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drove by Monday and saw some sort of crew deep drilling down into the soil under the parking lot, not sure however if that is in any way related to this project...

 

This project goes before the Brownfield Authority this month. That was probably to get borings for the environmental portion of the Brownfield application. Apparently they did make the second round application process for LIHTC.

 

If you want to parse the legalese, take a gander over at this doc starting at page 55..

 

http://grcity.us/design-and-development-services/Economic-Development/Brownfield/BRA%20Agenda%20Packet%209-18-14.pdf

 

The renderings in there are HUGE. It will be a cool looking project it seems. There's a lot of ground floor retail coming on the downtown market (240 Ionia, this project).

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I had to go back and see if the rendering got better or worse.  They are the same as the December renderings.  Still worse, IMHO, than the July '13 renderings.  Those at least had potential to go in an interesting direction--instead they took it the other way.  I'm just going to give up on anyone building an attractive building in Grand Rapids.  Perhaps I'm just an iconoclast with an outdated fetish for timeless, beautiful designs instead of this utilitarian detritus.  This one still goes in the "beats a parking lot" category for me.  Replaceable and forgettable low rise architecture unsympathetically ballooned in the vertical orientation and festooned with a garish top hat.  A Ransom Towers redux in a vulgar costume, in a rather conspicuous location. 

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