20 Fulton E, Mixed Use Development

[x99]

1 hour ago, GRLaker said:

Big disappointment in my book. I'm honestly over these elongated rectangles with zero character that are now dominating the GR landscape. How have we gone from buildings like the Amway Grand, River House, DeVos Center, and the JW to nothing but lego blocks? I was drawing buildings like this in 7th grade when I had dreams of becoming an architect. Now we have actual professionals drawing up this crap.

What are you, my long lost twin brother?  But yeah.  It would seem we have learned nothing since the Ransom Towers.  It's like someone issued a challenge on how to make Icon on Bond look like a model of good urban design.  If there's anything 90% of the recent construction proves, it's that Grand Rapids is an architectural backwater, at best.

On the bright side, at least this hasn't happened: 

[GR_Urbanist]

 

1 hour ago, GRLaker said:

I'm obviously way behind on this project, as the last rendering I had seen for this was the one in MLive.

Big disappointment in my book. I'm honestly over these elongated rectangles with zero character that are now dominating the GR landscape. How have we gone from buildings like the Amway Grand, River House, DeVos Center, and the JW to nothing but lego blocks? I was drawing buildings like this in 7th grade when I had dreams of becoming an architect. Now we have actual professionals drawing up this crap.

It beats an empty lot...But this was a big swing and miss, IMHO.

I guess I'm not exactly sure how those buildings you cited are remotely considered masterpieces. Maybe short of the JW, they are all standard boxes with a little "flourish". Almost all of them have a dead street presence, or are set back from the street. This building already out does them on that alone.

Fancy architecture costs fancy money. The insane buildings you see in an Architect magazine are nowhere near the norm when it comes to standard grade in-fill structures that are working with tight numbers and not starchitects.

What you see is the normal current style in buildings to fulfill a purpose, and not to be landmarks. Here is an example in Rotterdam where you would expect something far more fancy:

 

Looks like a Holiday Inn, but it's just a standard apartment building

[ironyisadeadscene]

Not much detail, but a dark blob at dusk from Sheldon

[GRLaker]

18 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

 

I guess I'm not exactly sure how those buildings you cited are remotely considered masterpieces. Maybe short of the JW, they are all standard boxes with a little "flourish". Almost all of them have a dead street presence, or are set back from the street. This building already out does them on that alone.

Fancy architecture costs fancy money. The insane buildings you see in an Architect magazine are nowhere near the norm when it comes to standard grade in-fill structures that are working with tight numbers and not starchitects.

What you see is the normal current style in buildings to fulfill a purpose, and not to be landmarks. Here is an example in Rotterdam where you would expect something far more fancy:

 

Looks like a Holiday Inn, but it's just a standard apartment building

I don't mean to say that those buildings are products of architectural genius by any means. However, they at least have some shape to them beyond looking like a lego block. The Amway has the angled roof along with the stair-like look on the north side. River House at least has some curvature with the cut-in at the top to give it some shape. It really doesn't take much to make a blah building a little less blah. We may be an architectural backwater - like x99 stated - but honestly, these buildings take zero creativity. Straight lines up and longer straight lines across. Building designed.

For this project, I just honestly think they had a better design the first time around. Sure, it was still boxy, but it at least had a T shape, an overhang at the top, and balconies. It was far less blah than the final product.  

19 hours ago, x99 said:

What are you, my long lost twin brother?  But yeah.  It would seem we have learned nothing since the Ransom Towers.  It's like someone issued a challenge on how to make Icon on Bond look like a model of good urban design.  If there's anything 90% of the recent construction proves, it's that Grand Rapids is an architectural backwater, at best.

On the bright side, at least this hasn't happened: 

Oh my...I completely forgot about Ransom Towers. That thing is a scourge to our skyline. Also, at this rate, we might be approaching that picture's status soon.   

[GRDadof3]

53 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

I don't mean to say that those buildings are products of architectural genius by any means. However, they at least have some shape to them beyond looking like a lego block. The Amway has the angled roof along with the stair-like look on the north side. River House at least has some curvature with the cut-in at the top to give it some shape. It really doesn't take much to make a blah building a little less blah. We may be an architectural backwater - like x99 stated - but honestly, these buildings take zero creativity. Straight lines up and longer straight lines across. Building designed.

For this project, I just honestly think they had a better design the first time around. Sure, it was still boxy, but it at least had a T shape, an overhang at the top, and balconies. It was far less blah than the final product.  

Oh my...I completely forgot about Ransom Towers. That thing is a scourge to our skyline. Also, at this rate, we might be approaching that picture's status soon.   

20 Fulton had a t-shape at one time?

Also, I don't think we've ever seen the redesign. I looked everywhere and could find any renderings (just construction drawings)

 

[WMrapids]

40 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

20 Fulton had a t-shape at one time?

Maybe more like an L?

[GRLaker]

42 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

20 Fulton had a t-shape at one time?

Also, I don't think we've ever seen the redesign. I looked everywhere and could find any renderings (just construction drawings)

 

Upon looking again, it was more of a slight L. The overhang on the top made it look like it stuck out on the street side, which made me think it was T-shaped.  

2 minutes ago, WMrapids said:

Maybe more like an L?

Yep - there it is. It's no masterpiece, but I like it more than the most up-to-date design (assuming that is going to be the look).

[sparky05]

Been a bit since I made my way to the roof...

20 Fulton - August 5, 2016 by Marc VM, on Flickr

20 Fulton - August 5, 2016 by Marc VM, on Flickr

20 Fulton - August 5, 2016 by Marc VM, on Flickr

Looking at this shot, I'd guess that we're seeing an ice melt system for the parking ramp?

20 Fulton - August 5, 2016 by Marc VM, on Flickr

[sparky05]

Some new signage going up on the fences this morning.

20 Fulton - August 8, 2016 by Marc VM, on Flickr

[EastownLeo]

I was going to post the same thing,  "Make Heartside, Heart of Downtown Great Again"

Really?  a Trump Homage? 

 

[GRDadof3]

11 minutes ago, EastownLeo said:

I was going to post the same thing,  "Make Heartside, Heart of Downtown Great Again"

Really?  a Trump Homage? 

 

 

Wow, seriously? That's going to set off a shit storm on the Salon and Facebook. Regardless of the Trump nod, there are a lot of organizations in Heartside that think it's great now. 

 

 

[GRLaker]

12 minutes ago, EastownLeo said:

I was going to post the same thing,  "Make Heartside, Heart of Downtown Great Again"

Really?  a Trump Homage? 

 

[RegalTDP]

18 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Wow, seriously? That's going to set off a crap storm on the Salon and Facebook. Regardless of the Trump nod, there are a lot of organizations in Heartside that think it's great now. 

What a bonehead move.  "Hey everyone, here's our PR strategy: (1) Insult our neighborhood. (2) Call ourselves gentrifiers."  If they're smart, the sign will be down by lunchtime.

Edited August 8, 2016 by RegalTDP

[GR_Urbanist]

1 hour ago, GRDadof3 said:

 

Wow, seriously? That's going to set off a crap storm on the Salon and Facebook. Regardless of the Trump nod, there are a lot of organizations in Heartside that think it's great now. 

 

 

So are we actually going to see grown men and women actually go online and whine over a sign? Frankly anyone that is offended over a catchphrase that has appeared all over the place seriously needs to get a life.

But I only assume that right now a group of online nutcases are already having an emotional meltdown, and planing stupid protests and other assorted displays of childishness, just to harass these people into protecting their eyes from words.

 

I swear we live in the age of cheap infantile outrage. Leave the sign up and make these people understand that their feelings or goofy deranged partisan opinions does not give them the moral right to to dump on people that have dont nothing wrong but display words on a sign.

If the sign said "Hope and Change in Heartside" or "I'm ready for Heatside", I can only think these drama queens would not have an issue.

[EastownLeo]

To me this is not about disgust about what is on the sign, but rather a full on questioning and surprise that the marketing team behind it made such a decision.

From and advertising and Marketing perspective, you have to craft your message to be targeting your potential clients. Yet at the same time being aware of the geographic, social and community elements you are pushing this message into. Im not appalled at the sign, but embarrassed for those that designed it.

[GRLaker]

1 hour ago, EastownLeo said:

To me this is not about disgust about what is on the sign, but rather a full on questioning and surprise that the marketing team behind it made such a decision.

From and advertising and Marketing perspective, you have to craft your message to be targeting your potential clients. Yet at the same time being aware of the geographic, social and community elements you are pushing this message into. Im not appalled at the sign, but embarrassed for those that designed it.

This was my mindset as well. I agree that people get butthurt far too easily. However, it's always good business to appeal to everyone that you're targeting for that business. Difficult to do that when you're using a Trump-ish slogan and insinuating that Heartside wasn't already great. Anyone that protests over such things is dumb, but it was equally dumb marketing. 

[GRDadof3]

2 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

So are we actually going to see grown men and women actually go online and whine over a sign? Frankly anyone that is offended over a catchphrase that has appeared all over the place seriously needs to get a life.

But I only assume that right now a group of online nutcases are already having an emotional meltdown, and planing stupid protests and other assorted displays of childishness, just to harass these people into protecting their eyes from words.

 

I swear we live in the age of cheap infantile outrage. Leave the sign up and make these people understand that their feelings or goofy deranged partisan opinions does not give them the moral right to to dump on people that have dont nothing wrong but display words on a sign.

If the sign said "Hope and Change in Heartside" or "I'm ready for Heatside", I can only think these drama queens would not have an issue.

Let me guess, you wanted to add "this is what's wrong with this country, political correctness."   

[GR_Urbanist]

4 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Let me guess, you wanted to add "this is what's wrong with this country, political correctness."   

That's a far kinder way of saying "People that get upset over this are idiots, and have zero life".

And as far as the poor snowflakes that are assumed to be currently writhing in agony and despair over this affront to their well-being, while sitting at the red light near it an hour ago, I saw no one in obvious pain.

I'll say a prayer for them to stay strong.

Edited August 8, 2016 by GR_Urbanist

[jas49503]

I wondering the folks complaining about gentrification would prefer a sign that says "heartside, let's leep it sh**y". That's what stopping gentrification implies because of you aren't moving forwards, you're going backwards. 

[Herb Derb]

Sensitive butts and my personal opinion of Trump aside. Thats pretty poor marketing. I'll never understand why some businesses display their political leanings for all to see. Seem like a marginalizing move. Maybe this is a coincidence but I doubt it. 

[walker]

8 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

 

Wow, seriously? That's going to set off a crap storm on the Salon and Facebook. Regardless of the Trump nod, there are a lot of organizations in Heartside that think it's great now. 

Other than here has anyone got excited about this?  I don't do Facebook so I don't know, life is calmer that way (without Facebook.)

 

31 minutes ago, Herb Derb said:

Sensitive butts and my personal opinion of Trump aside. Thats pretty poor marketing. I'll never understand why some businesses display their political leanings for all to see. Seem like a marginalizing move. Maybe this is a coincidence but I doubt it. 

I may be wrong but I see it as just a mild parody of Trump's slogan and not an indication of anyone's political leanings.  Considering how touchy everyone is, the sign probably wasn't a good idea though.

Welcome to the planet Herb.  

[Herb Derb]

Glad to be here thanks. It probably just shows how loaded this election is. Maybe the marketing department doesn't know irony is dead.

[joeDowntown]

The line about "...something more concrete" needs to include the sound of a rimshot with it. 

Not the best marketing campaign in the world but I'm still excited to see this go vertical. Bad slogans and puns included.  

I've seen very slick marketing campaigns on developments that ended up in the dustbin. I'll let the one slide. Haha

Joe

[GRDadof3]

15 hours ago, Herb Derb said:

Sensitive butts and my personal opinion of Trump aside. Thats pretty poor marketing. I'll never understand why some businesses display their political leanings for all to see. Seem like a marginalizing move. Maybe this is a coincidence but I doubt it. 

Maybe the developer Karl Chew went through Trump University. 

Maybe my perception is off, but I can't see 20 Fulton East appealing to Trump fans, which I picture as mostly over 60, overweight, white exurban males with wife beater shirts on.

Oh well, moving on!  

[GR_Urbanist]

"Which I picture as mostly over 60, overweight, white exurban males with wife beater shirts on. "

 

Come on, that's no more mature or accurate than saying Hillary supporters are just fat 20 year old feminists with blue hair and body odor.

Seriously is this UPGR or the Salon?

 

Just be happy someone is building something here.