Guest 5th & Main Urbanite

60 story Four Seasons. 700+ feet.

66 posts in this topic


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And I'm going to go out on a limb and say no chance this happens.

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*content unavailable.

 

 

And I'm going to go out on a limb and say no chance this happens.

 

I also got the error, and am also going out on a pretty sturdy branch and saying it won't happen.

 

Any chance at describing the rendering?

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Well it doesn't work for me either.  Obviously he wouldn't be randomly lying about such a thing.  So I'd say either the company involved heard that people knew of it and took down the page, or it was indeed a rendering, but just a pie-in-the-sky fantasy type of situation, which very well may be the case given the apparent fact that the only known existence of this rendering was on a facebook page.

Edited by BnaBreaker

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Send pic via email to Daniel and he can get it on the board

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www.facebook.com then go to Grant Hammond. You will see the pic. I have it on my desktop but I don't know how to post it on here. 


Sent Daniel a message.


Well it doesn't work for me either.  Obviously he wouldn't be randomly lying about such a thing.  So I'd say either the company involved heard that people knew of it and took down the page, or it was indeed a rendering, but just a pie-in-the-sky fantasy type of situation, which very well may be the case given the apparent fact that the only known existence of this rendering was on a facebook page.

William has seen the rendering as well. He knew about the proposal. He is the one that told me  it was 700 feet.


Just tried the link. I think it was just taken down!


I have the rendering on  my desktop. Ron, or somebody email me and I will send it to you.

Edited by 5th & Main Urbanite

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My guess is that if this project comes to fruition, that it will be a mixed use tower such as the Miami Four Seasons. 

Built around 2003 70 story,222-room Four Seasons Hotel, 84 condominium-hotel units, 186 luxury residential condos, 10,600 square feet of retail space and 934 parking spaces. Sports Club/LA Miami will operate a 40,000-square-foot health club, 200,000 square feet of office space.

Will have to wait and see

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Well if I had to guess, that looks an awful lot like 5th & Church. If this is even relevant to Nashville. Skeptical, still.

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Nashville has been punk'd too many times to believe this is a real proposal. So who is the rumored developer? And where? I don't even recognize the site in the rndring.

Edited by MLBrumby

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Hmmm, good catch.  Yeah, that is the Four Seasons Toronto, and it's already built, too.

 

0New-Four-Seasons-Hotel-Toronto.jpg

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Would have been perfect for Signature Tower.

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Is this such a stretch? I understand this may not be an actual proposal and rendering, but many are making it sound like Nashville could never support such a development. It's my understanding that Signature Tower would have happened if it weren't for the national credit crunch and collapse of the housing market.  If that's the case, and assuming that the credit markets are beginning to come back, then I don't see why the Nashville of 2013 couldn't support this type of project when the Nashville of 2006 could.  In that time Nashville has grown up quite a bit, and IMO the market for urban condos/apartments is larger and more established.  I don't know if the condo prices here could support a building like this now, but in 2-3 years I suspect they could, and there's always the option for apartments instead of condos. And as many have noted on here, we really need some more downtown office space.

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Is this such a stretch? I understand this may not be an actual proposal and rendering, but many are making it sound like Nashville could never support such a development. It's my understanding that Signature Tower would have happened if it weren't for the national credit crunch and collapse of the housing market.  If that's the case, and assuming that the credit markets are beginning to come back, then I don't see why the Nashville of 2013 couldn't support this type of project when the Nashville of 2006 could.  In that time Nashville has grown up quite a bit, and IMO the market for urban condos/apartments is larger and more established.  I don't know if the condo prices here could support a building like this now, but in 2-3 years I suspect they could, and there's always the option for apartments instead of condos. And as many have noted on here, we really need some more downtown office space.

 

I don't think it's a stretch per se, but considering 2 major hotel announcements downtown totaling 850 rooms (neither as high end as the Four Seasons, but not mid level hotels, either), as well as 12th and Laurel under construction and Tony's SoBro looking to begin sometime this year, and Gulch Crossing getting underway, I think the market would not be right for this sort of thing. I do think that if this level of hotel is built, it would likely be a component of a mixed use project of this kind...but as previously stated, pretty much every other component of this project is being taken care of, or will be. 

 

Of course, there has been no official announcement or details to go along with this...this might be a developer's proposal for when things are farther along with other projects and the timing is right for the market to be absorbing the current components as this is under construction.

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Grant has not been wrong yet. He is well connected and has sold over $300,000,000 in real estate. He posted on his facebook page a week ago there would be two announcements. Sobro was one and, one would be a surprise and this is it. I won't say unequivocally this will be built, but out of all the renderings we have seen in the past 30 years, this may happen.

 

1) Four Seasons is a new brand Nashville definitely needs.

 

2) The CBD is lacking class A office space for rent.

 

3) The hotel industry here needs at least 3-5 high end properties to get some conventions we would otherwise not get.

 

4) 505 CST is  a different market. Tony wants one large tenant whereas this property will accommodate dozens of smaller tenants.

 

5) The condo market is fully absorbed. There is even a waiting list for my building across the river from the CBD. The urban core has no available condos. Apartments are becoming plentiful.

 

6) This kind of property would put Nashville on the world stage.

 

7) Many coming to Nashville are coming not for CMA based tourism, but for high end restaurants, theater, and other amenities that would serve guests of this income level.

 

8) Nashville is ready for a true skyscraper. Not an ATT Tower "wannabe" with a 90 foot spire.

 

This kind of tower places Nashville in an elite situation that Signature would have if the economy had not tanked.

 

It is my bold prediction that we break the 700 foot barrier sooner than later.

Edited by 5th & Main Urbanite
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I think we need to start looking at Nashville a little different now. I know there has been a lot of let down over the years, but I think we are in a new era. With all of the focus recently on Nashville Next, we need to realize that Nashville is going to grow a lot over the next 25 years or so. With changing demographics and many new people and jobs coming here, we will need the hotel rooms, office space, condos, apartments, retail, and so on to meet demand.

As far as demographics go, there will be a lot more single person households. If estimates of a million people moving into the area are correct over the next 20 to 25 years, then there will be a need for thousands of new housing units. So if we are conservative and say 4 people per unit, then we need 250,000 units over the next two decades and that equates to between 20,000 and 25,000 housing units per year. If you look at the new demographic estimates, then 500,000 units would not be out of the question. That would be on the low end 40,000 units per years and we are no where near even a third of that number. Now all of those units would not be in the core, a lot will, with many younger and single adults moving here.

So, with all of that being said, the odds of projects such as this 60 story building go up. We could go to boom, but we could go to explosion. Just pray the economy does not go bust because that would be a game changer. I think a good indication is the fact that Aramark is adding a 1000 jobs. Right now, Nashville is a magnet and under a magnifying glass, as many companies are looking here for expansion opportunities.

I don't think the project in question is just a hotel. I think there are high end residential units included. This would give individuals an option over a McMansion in Williamson County.

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^ Well said. We appear to be entering a period of great, positive flux for Nashville. While I think it's good to remain cautiously optimistic, I believe Nashville is increasingly ready for many of the things we've previously told ourselves we couldn't yet handle. 

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I think you all do bring up some good points. This is certainly a period unlike any other in Nashville, and it is hard to judge all future development on past performance. And the prospects of us getting a tower like this are possibly greater now than even before the recession (I'm mainly talking about the Four Seasons aspect of it -- a new tallest high end residential tower would've likely happened in the form of Siggy had it not been for the downturn).

 

I am not usually the one that is the Debbie Downer here...however, I do not think this sort of thing is in our immediate future. We all know how long a lot of projects take before they get off the ground. I'm not referring to WES or anything like that...but it seems that with a lot of big projects, there is a 1-2 year lag time before they even have financing or approval...and this isn't even an official announcement. I just wonder why we are treating this differently than the numerous proposals we come across that have very vague (or in this case, no) details.

 

Perhaps I would be a little more encouraged if I knew the developer, the building site, and the actual project details. I know some developers like to keep things hush-hush until they're ready to start so that they don't look bad if the project scale or dimensions change (many times, financing related). Maybe this is one of those cases, and the initial rendering/proposal was leaked. I don't know. I'm just not ready to put this ahead of any of the other dozens of large scale proposals that we have seen come and go.

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I agree with you, Kev. There's just not enough information or facts about this - especially given we are looking at a rendering of the Toronto Four Seasons. Don't get me wrong, I'd love it if this were happening and I think it would serve a market that we don't currently have, but are the REST of the people involved in this (Metro, primarily) ready to see something like this happen? 

 

Anyway, I am encourage to see dream projects like this are still around, and if it gets going all-the-better. I remain skeptical until more evidence emerges.

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I think we need to start looking at Nashville a little different now. I know there has been a lot of let down over the years, but I think we are in a new era. With all of the focus recently on Nashville Next, we need to realize that Nashville is going to grow a lot over the next 25 years or so. With changing demographics and many new people and jobs coming here, we will need the hotel rooms, office space, condos, apartments, retail, and so on to meet demand.

As far as demographics go, there will be a lot more single person households. If estimates of a million people moving into the area are correct over the next 20 to 25 years, then there will be a need for thousands of new housing units. So if we are conservative and say 4 people per unit, then we need 250,000 units over the next two decades and that equates to between 20,000 and 25,000 housing units per year. If you look at the new demographic estimates, then 500,000 units would not be out of the question. That would be on the low end 40,000 units per years and we are no where near even a third of that number. Now all of those units would not be in the core, a lot will, with many younger and single adults moving here.

So, with all of that being said, the odds of projects such as this 60 story building go up. We could go to boom, but we could go to explosion. Just pray the economy does not go bust because that would be a game changer. I think a good indication is the fact that Aramark is adding a 1000 jobs. Right now, Nashville is a magnet and under a magnifying glass, as many companies are looking here for expansion opportunities.

I don't think the project in question is just a hotel. I think there are high end residential units included. This would give individuals an option over a McMansion in Williamson County.

 

 

Excellent points, Ron. I agree fully.

 

WW

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