Jump to content

Eastown Flats - 1400 &1415 Wealthy St.


Gorath

Recommended Posts

... and let's not forget they are proposing to acquire the land at Carlton and Fulton for another apartment project.   They violated trust once by proposing attractive brick buildings and then building fiber cement covered, value-engineered rubbish--all at significant taxpayer expense.  Will they get away with this scheme twice?  I hope not. 

 

Yes, didn't they get NEZ designation on this project?

 

I'll try to get some pictures later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 121
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Hmmm. I actually like the lighter color. Not that the original color wasnt a good choice, it's just that this one seems more....uplifting? Something that will compensate for the retail level looking so cave-like.

 

But yeah, the vents are pretty ugly for sure, and does make the whole thing look more like student housing you would find outside of GVSU. Not terrible, just not what it could have been.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm actually considering living here next year, so long as it isnt too over-priced. Downtown is just too damn expensive.

 

$800 for a 1BR and $1200 for a 2BR, but that was 2013.  A grand or higher for something that isn't on Wealthy or Fuller is becoming the norm, unless it's rather crappy (kitchen with 4 feet of counter with the fridge and stove right next to each other, pedestal sink in the bathroom with no storage, mold-covered shower).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose that by that measure, $1.50-$1.75/sf, this condo above Jonny Bz is not as ridiculously priced as it feels just by looking at the photos. http://www.grar.com/property/mls/15009059

 

However, I still think it's over-priced, even given the tighter market for condos/houses that any grar search turns up.  There are plenty of houses in this area going for considerably less, but they also have the expectation of yard/general homeownership maintenance.

Still, the price seems high, given the finish of the remodel...those kitchen counters do not look like what I would have historically expected in a $300,000 condo in GR.  Maybe times are a changing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose that by that measure, $1.50-$1.75/sf, this condo above Jonny Bz is not as ridiculously priced as it feels just by looking at the photos. http://www.grar.com/property/mls/15009059

 

However, I still think it's over-priced, even given the tighter market for condos/houses that any grar search turns up.  There are plenty of houses in this area going for considerably less, but they also have the expectation of yard/general homeownership maintenance.

Still, the price seems high, given the finish of the remodel...those kitchen counters do not look like what I would have historically expected in a $300,000 condo in GR.  Maybe times are a changing.

 

 

No, that condo is really expensive. 1200 square feet at $295,000 is $245/sf, which is higher than most of the condos downtown, except maybe Fitzgerald and the upper floors of River House.

 

If you were to buy it and rent it out, you'd probably have to charge at least $2500 a month to make any profit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I suppose that by that measure, $1.50-$1.75/sf, this condo above Jonny Bz is not as ridiculously priced as it feels just by looking at the photos. http://www.grar.com/property/mls/15009059

 

Price exists solely because of the Ren Zone--they're trolling for someone who can make a small fortune off the tax breaks.  That's why it is the first thing mentioned in the listing.  There are few Ren Zones left--most expired.  They have to know the condo itself is worth maybe $150k on a good day.  And that is being very, very generous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Price exists solely because of the Ren Zone--they're trolling for someone who can make a small fortune off the tax breaks.  That's why it is the first thing mentioned in the listing.  There are few Ren Zones left--most expired.  They have to know the condo itself is worth maybe $150k on a good day.  And that is being very, very generous.

 

Well let's work the numbers on that. Interestingly the taxable value/SEV is assigned to the entire building, not any one unit upstairs. But let's take half the $295K and make that the taxable value, so $150,000. Mills appear to be 32.31 or about $4800 a year in property taxes.

 

Assume the buyers have a household income of $80,000, which is about the minimum to qualify for the condo payments with 20% down. State income taxes are 4.25% and city is 1.5%.

 

Tax savings:

 

) $400/month for prop taxes

) $283/month for state income taxe

) $100/month for city income tax

 

Total savings: $783/month

 

So your "extra buying power" is about $150,000 ($783/month payment on a 4.5% 30 year mortgage). I think you're on to something x99.

 

The only problem is is that the appraiser is going to have a hard time comp'ing the condo on the appraisal. Unless the buyer pays cash. Also, what happens to the condo's value when the Ren Zone runs out. 2024 will come around pretty fast.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So your "extra buying power" is about $150,000 ($783/month payment on a 4.5% 30 year mortgage). I think you're on to something x99.

 

The only problem is is that the appraiser is going to have a hard time comp'ing the condo on the appraisal. Unless the buyer pays cash. Also, what happens to the condo's value when the Ren Zone runs out. 2024 will come around pretty fast.

 

Rented in a Ren Zone once when they were everywhere... You nailed the problem:  When the Ren Zone runs out, the values fall off a cliff.  And it phases out over I think 3 years, so it really only has full benefits to, say, 2021.  Basically you need to make enough enough off of it to compensate for the $150,000 in value inflation (presumably plus some profit).  Your math is right except the real estate tax is debatable:  This isn't really a $300k condo since you won't be able to sell it for that value in the future (discounting the impact of inflation), so you need to discount that down to what it is actually worth, so $200 a month for taxes seems more fair.  You don't--as you noticed--get 30 years of payments, either.  You get about 90 payments of $[x] which grow at, say, 5% per year.  Assuming a 6% discount rate (the rate of investment return you are willing to take), and assuming this is really a $150k condo, [x] needs to be about $2900, so you need to make about $400,000 a year before this inflated price makes sense.  If you'll take a lower discount rate, say 4.5%, you only need to make about $200k a year.  But if you wondered what made all those RenZone residential properties tick and why you see Porsche's and BMWs parked outside of them, well there you go.  There is no better way to attract rich people and their money to Wealthy Street (or anywhere else) than to form Ren Zones. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rented in a Ren Zone once when they were everywhere... You nailed the problem:  When the Ren Zone runs out, the values fall off a cliff.  And it phases out over I think 3 years, so it really only has full benefits to, say, 2021.  Basically you need to make enough enough off of it to compensate for the $150,000 in value inflation (presumably plus some profit).  Your math is right except the real estate tax is debatable:  This isn't really a $300k condo since you won't be able to sell it for that value in the future (discounting the impact of inflation), so you need to discount that down to what it is actually worth, so $200 a month for taxes seems more fair.  You don't--as you noticed--get 30 years of payments, either.  You get about 90 payments of $[x] which grow at, say, 5% per year.  Assuming a 6% discount rate (the rate of investment return you are willing to take), and assuming this is really a $150k condo, [x] needs to be about $2900, so you need to make about $400,000 a year before this inflated price makes sense.  If you'll take a lower discount rate, say 4.5%, you only need to make about $200k a year.  But if you wondered what made all those RenZone residential properties tick and why you see Porsche's and BMWs parked outside of them, well there you go.  There is no better way to attract rich people and their money to Wealthy Street (or anywhere else) than to form Ren Zones. 

 

 

The one difference was that projects like Union Square, which were in a Ren Zone, had relatively inexpensive condos. I seem to remember many were selling in the $130 - $150/sf price range, well below the rest of the market. So you could get a cheap condo and have Ren Zone benefits. Though they did take a dip when the ren zone expired in 2012, they did not "fall off a cliff." And many of them have regained their value and appreciated above what people paid, finally.

 

I know a lot of people who lived in the Ren Zones, and not one of them I would consider "rich." There are a couple of people who have some of the more expensive condos in Union Square who drive nice cars and motorcycles and park in that enclosed garage area off the north side of the building, but the rest are just regular folks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The one difference was that projects like Union Square, which were in a Ren Zone, had relatively inexpensive condos. I seem to remember many were selling in the $130 - $150/sf price range, well below the rest of the market. So you could get a cheap condo and have Ren Zone benefits. Though they did take a dip when the ren zone expired in 2012, they did not "fall off a cliff." And many of them have regained their value and appreciated above what people paid, finally.

 

I know a lot of people who lived in the Ren Zones, and not one of them I would consider "rich." There are a couple of people who have some of the more expensive condos in Union Square who drive nice cars and motorcycles and park in that enclosed garage area off the north side of the building, but the rest are just regular folks.

 

Well, I actually lived there for a brief period of time, and compared to the surrounding neighborhood, most people living in Union Square were loaded to the gills.  It was weird living there, in a high end fortress overlooking a bunch of crack houses.  Prices at Union Square are still about $80k down, after adjusting for 2.5% inflation.  Regardless, there used to be hundreds of these units--now there is only a handful.  I suspect anyone that has one is looking for a huge premium, particularly on Wealthy were the RenZone worked as it was intended.  

 

Anyhow, I don't really know how we got off on this tangent from Orion... Maybe the stupidity of giving out tax breaks to build giant residential buildings... Sort of like Orion pulled with that NEZ designation?  Given how high rents are right now, and that this is not a "distressed area" that needed it, that's just an embarrassment for all involved.  Stupid, stupid, stupid.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyhow, I don't really know how we got off on this tangent from Orion... Maybe the stupidity of giving out tax breaks to build giant residential buildings... Sort of like Orion pulled with that NEZ designation?  Given how high rents are right now, and that this is not a "distressed area" that needed it, that's just an embarrassment for all involved.  Stupid, stupid, stupid.

 

I agree.  Not at all what NEZ's were designed for.  It's like, "We want new apartments so badly we're going to finagle a tax credit for you since so many others got one."  Not how I want my city doing business.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Has anyone been over by these lately? The other day I saw a picture in passing and at least one of them was all red now...

If I lived in GR I'd pop over and take a pic myself. 

Anyone seen them?

I didn't get a photo, but yes, it got painted red. I'm surprised (was it really cheaper to install white siding and then paint it red vs purchasing red siding to begin with? I worry that this project will look dated/aged/and cheap in the not too distant future.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't get a photo, but yes, it got painted red. I'm surprised (was it really cheaper to install white siding and then paint it red vs purchasing red siding to begin with? I worry that this project will look dated/aged/and cheap in the not too distant future.

 

Um.  It looks cheap and crappy now.  All the future holds is falley-apartey and mega-super-dumpy.  It's quite a shame, too, because brick, a less kitschy fenestration plan, and more careful treatment of mechanicals could have made all the difference for very minor outlay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I didn't get a photo, but yes, it got painted red. I'm surprised (was it really cheaper to install white siding and then paint it red vs purchasing red siding to begin with? I worry that this project will look dated/aged/and cheap in the not too distant future.

 

I drove by them recently and they were still an off white color. I didn't realize that was some kind of "wood" product that was going to be painted? What a strange choice, usually that stuff needs to be repainted every 8 - 10 years at enormous expense. 

 

I thought they were originally going to be masonry. 

 

I'll try to get some pics today so we can all throw virtual eggs at it. :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.