More Accolades for Nashville

[Armacing]

On 3/24/2022 at 10:00 AM, ruraljuror said:

If an Single Family Home is replaced by 3 tall skinnies that are all intended to be used as AirBNBs, then we haven't really increased the housing stock - all we've done is essentially increased the 'hotel' stock.  

No, those are houses.  Just because the owner of those houses chooses to use them for STR instead of LTR or sell them outright doesn't change the nature of the buildings themselves.

23 hours ago, PruneTracy said:

I'm not trying to start something but I don't know if I would contrast AirBNB with big-money lobbies. Its revenue puts it at the same level as the mid-sized hospitality companies.

The houses themselves are not owned by AirBNB.  They are owned by private individuals or other organizations who are investing in real-estate.  AirBNB is just an app, like VRBO and others.  The person you are really mad at is someone who decided to invest their money in real estate and earn rental income from it.  But I ask you:  Why are you so mad at them?  Where do you want them to invest their money?  The stock market?  That's a joke!  Crypto?  Pokemon cards?  Leave it in the bank and let inflation destroy the value?  Rental income is one of the few cash-flow generating investments that small-time investors can use to keep up with inflation based on their ability to raise rent along with rising prices.  Or maybe you just want them to live off of government hand-outs like socials security, is that it?  Not everyone is able to work, nor does everyone receive a pension.

20 hours ago, Pdt2f said:

Tens of thousands of potential homebuyers were priced out of this house over a 3 week period due to one person or organizations greed. You may say, whelp that’s the free market, and maybe you’re right. I just don’t care anymore. 

Yeah, I am right.  And you shouldn't let one financial difficulty cause you to throw up your hands in despair and embrace socialism.  There are a million things I would like to buy that I can't afford, but you don't see me saying "I'm done with the free market!  Let's take everyone's rights and property so that I can get what I want!".  ...Because I know where that train leads and it is not a beautiful utopia where I get more stuff, it's a dismal land of suffering where everyone (including me) has less.

[markhollin]

OK--lighten up on all the socialism hysteria anytime someone questions the sanctity of the free market.  Geesh.   In our form of government neighborhoods and communities can work together to enhance or prohibit activities that they feel are either for the best or the detriment of their overall good. 

[colemangaines]

28 minutes ago, Armacing said:

Yeah, I am right.  And you shouldn't let one financial difficulty cause you to throw up your hands in despair and embrace socialism.  There are a million things I would like to buy that I can't afford, but you don't see me saying "I'm done with the free market!  Let's take everyone's rights and property so that I can get what I want!".  ...Because I know where that train leads and it is not a beautiful utopia where I get more stuff, it's a dismal land of suffering where everyone (including me) has less.

In my opinion this relies on a misrepresentation of the real estate market - it really isn't much of a free market. The government, for a given lot, has said "you can't build this, you can't build that, we don't want anything like this, etc." That's inherently not a free market. I understand why we have these rules and regulations, there should definitely be some planning and direction for land use. But in my opinion the solution is to make the real estate market MORE of a free market. Allow developers to build taller, denser, higher-ROI projects that'll make their financers happy and provide more supply for the neighborhood. Their may be the occasional embarrassment *cough cough HAVEN cough* but I think the rewards far outweigh the risks.

[jmtunafish]

I had no idea that Nashville was known for its pizza.

The 15 Best Pizza Cities in the US:

1. Detroit
2. Cleveland
3. Columbus OH
4. Boston
5. Pittsburgh
6. Indianapolis
7. Providence
8. Saint Louis
9. Philadelphia
10. Norfolk
11. Baltimore
12. Tampa
13. Minneapolis
14. Chicago
15. Nashville

[FluffyP13]

lol, it's not. that list has got to be a joke.

[Luvemtall]

If someone know where in Nashville there’s “ good” pizza , let me in on it. Been living here 16 years, tried many, many places but haven’t found any . Some is not that bad, but nothing like NYC, and Connecticut. Pepe’ pizza in New Haven ,Ct is crazy good. Dominick’s and Vinny’s in Waterbury Ct so good you need to order the day before, there’s a waiting list. At least pizza around here is better then Florida.. cardboard with a bit of cheese.

[FluffyP13]

New york isnt even on that list, lol. its got a whole style of pizza named after it. I do love a good tampa style pizza though lol

[natethegreat]

Horrible list. At least 10 of those cities / towns should be in the tri-state area (NY, NJ, CT).

[Armacing]

3 hours ago, markhollin said:

In our form of government neighborhoods and communities can work together to enhance or prohibit activities that they feel are either for the best or the detriment of their overall good. 

I'm not trying to create hysteria.  Quick story to give you an idea where I'm coming from:  My cousin was  an early 20's college graduate with a degree that was not very useful to get a job.  People make mistakes though and deal with them as best they can, right?  So she worked 2 jobs and lived at home for several years to save up enough money for a down-payment on a run-down historic home in the Foster Ave. neighborhood.  Then she worked nights and weekends to refurbish the house by herself and when she completed the remodel she started renting it out through AirBNB.  That allowed her to quit 1 of the part time jobs.  Seeing this as a good investment and way to make a living, she kept living with her parents and saving for the down-payment to buy a second house.  She bought the house and started remodeling, and right about the time that she finished the remodel Metro issued the guideline that an individual property owner can only operate one STR.  This basically torpedoed her business plan and she had to rent out the house as LTR, which was much less income.

Then I see this post: 

On 3/18/2022 at 10:32 AM, nashvylle said:

destroying neighborhoods and making Nashville more unaffordable one host at a time. 

So let's take a tally of how the overall good is being enhanced:

Potential tourist who wants to rent a house:  Screwed

Small businesswoman trying to break into the rental business: Screwed

Potential house buyer: Screwed because they still got outbid by a girl living with her parents.

Big-name Hotel Company that gets the tourist because no houses were available :  Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner!

Long-term renter who ended up in the 2nd house:  Maybe they are a winner, but I'm not so sure.  The only reason they're renting in the first place is because they can't afford to buy,  which is a problem caused by metro's anti-density zoning restrictions.  And you better believe my cousin will charge them max rent with plenty of increases to make up for lost revenue from the whole AirBNB debacle.

Politicians:  Winner because they made it look like they did something good by punishing "evil investors" when really they didn't address the underlying problem... which is obvious because the problem of home affordability has gotten worse since that regulation was put in place.

Wow, so it turns out the overall good was enhanced by helping big corporations and politicians, while also punishing consumers and small business owners in a way that does nothing to improve home affordability.   Interesting!

[markhollin]

^ ^ ^ But none of what you railed against here is socialism.  So let's bring this to a close now. Feel free to go on your diatribes in the Coffeehouse.  Thanks.  

[nashvylle]

38 minutes ago, Armacing said:

I'm not trying to create hysteria.  Quick story to give you an idea where I'm coming from:  My cousin was  an early 20's college graduate with a degree that was not very useful to get a job.  People make mistakes though and deal with them as best they can, right?  So she worked 2 jobs and lived at home for several years to save up enough money for a down-payment on a run-down historic home in the Foster Ave. neighborhood.  Then she worked nights and weekends to refurbish the house by herself and when she completed the remodel she started renting it out through AirBNB.  That allowed her to quit 1 of the part time jobs.  Seeing this as a good investment and way to make a living, she kept living with her parents and saving for the down-payment to buy a second house.  She bought the house and started remodeling, and right about the time that she finished the remodel Metro issued the guideline that an individual property owner can only operate one STR.  This basically torpedoed her business plan and she had to rent out the house as LTR, which was much less income.

Then I see this post: 

So let's take a tally of how the overall good is being enhanced:

Potential tourist who wants to rent a house:  Screwed

Small businesswoman trying to break into the rental business: Screwed

Potential house buyer: Screwed because they still got outbid by a girl living with her parents.

Big-name Hotel Company that gets the tourist because no houses were available :  Ladies and gentlemen we have a winner!

Long-term renter who ended up in the 2nd house:  Maybe they are a winner, but I'm not so sure.  The only reason they're renting in the first place is because they can't afford to buy,  which is a problem caused by metro's anti-density zoning restrictions.  And you better believe my cousin will charge them max rent with plenty of increases to make up for lost revenue from the whole AirBNB debacle.

Politicians:  Winner because they made it look like they did something good by punishing "evil investors" when really they didn't address the underlying problem... which is obvious because the problem of home affordability has gotten worse since that regulation was put in place.

Wow, so it turns out the overall good was enhanced by helping big corporations and politicians, while also punishing consumers and small business owners in a way that does nothing to improve home affordability.   Interesting!

I do not want anything bad for your cousin nor do I want anyone not to make less money, but please also include the home owners whose home values are decreased substantially because they are next to airbnb houses that are filled with lousy noisy weekenders who don't give a **** about the neighborhood because they will soon be on a flight hungover back to their homes. 

[BnaBreaker]

2 hours ago, jmtunafish said:

I had no idea that Nashville was known for its pizza.

The 15 Best Pizza Cities in the US:

1. Detroit
2. Cleveland
3. Columbus OH
4. Boston
5. Pittsburgh
6. Indianapolis
7. Providence
8. Saint Louis
9. Philadelphia
10. Norfolk
11. Baltimore
12. Tampa
13. Minneapolis
14. Chicago
15. Nashville

LMAO... okay, I have zero issue with Detroit being number one, because Detroit style pie is my personal favorite.  But the rest of this list is quite possibly the most laughable I have ever seen.  Did they just toss a bunch of city names into a hat and pull them out at random?  I mean... Indianapolis?  Tampa... TAMPA?  

Edited March 25 by BnaBreaker

[nashvylle]

5 hours ago, Armacing said:

Yeah, I am right.  And you shouldn't let one financial difficulty cause you to throw up your hands in despair and embrace socialism.  There are a million things I would like to buy that I can't afford, but you don't see me saying "I'm done with the free market!  Let's take everyone's rights and property so that I can get what I want!".  ...Because I know where that train leads and it is not a beautiful utopia where I get more stuff, it's a dismal land of suffering where everyone (including me) has less.

I am completely against the S word, but you're using your cousin's financial difficulties to bring out your viewpoint, but telling others to not let financial difficulties to bring about their view... 

 

[bnacincy]

3 hours ago, jmtunafish said:

I had no idea that Nashville was known for its pizza.

The 15 Best Pizza Cities in the US:

1. Detroit
2. Cleveland
3. Columbus OH
4. Boston
5. Pittsburgh
6. Indianapolis
7. Providence
8. Saint Louis
9. Philadelphia
10. Norfolk
11. Baltimore
12. Tampa
13. Minneapolis
14. Chicago
15. Nashville

I could possibly believe this if Obie's Pizza was still an ongoing concern but I don't think they are, are they?

[satalac]

The top 3 should be New York, Chicago and Detroit in no particular order. The majority of that list is ridiculous, especially with New York not even making it.

[samsonh]

3 hours ago, Luvemtall said:

If someone know where in Nashville there’s “ good” pizza , let me in on it. Been living here 16 years, tried many, many places but haven’t found any . Some is not that bad, but nothing like NYC, and Connecticut. Pepe’ pizza in New Haven ,Ct is crazy good. Dominick’s and Vinny’s in Waterbury Ct so good you need to order the day before, there’s a waiting list. At least pizza around here is better then Florida.. cardboard with a bit of cheese.

5 points is really pretty good. Midnight oil too

[Licec]

How Nashville is on a best pizza list is beyond me. Nashville is not a food city.

[Baronakim]

19 minutes ago, Licec said:

How Nashville is on a best pizza list is beyond me. Nashville is not a food city.

Trolling again?  Nashville is well known as a MAJOR Foodie city.  

[satalac]

45 minutes ago, Licec said:

How Nashville is on a best pizza list is beyond me. Nashville is not a food city.

I beg to differ.

[tragenvol]

1 hour ago, satalac said:

The top 3 should be New York, Chicago and Detroit in no particular order. The majority of that list is ridiculous, especially with New York not even making it.

With St. Louis unquestioned at #4...PROVEL!

[smeagolsfree]

18 hours ago, jmtunafish said:

I had no idea that Nashville was known for its pizza.

The 15 Best Pizza Cities in the US:

1. Detroit
2. Cleveland
3. Columbus OH
4. Boston
5. Pittsburgh
6. Indianapolis
7. Providence
8. Saint Louis
9. Philadelphia
10. Norfolk
11. Baltimore
12. Tampa
13. Minneapolis
14. Chicago
15. Nashville

These lists always leave me LMAO! They are just like what everyone one has to sit on and as wide and varied in between. How NYC is not on the list is beyond me and the number of people that like the garbage pizza out of Chicago would rank it higher than 14th.

All of these city rankings are most of time pretty worthless when it comes to ranking food as they are opinions and polls based on peoples taste. There is no way to rank these things scientifically. You can rank other things through numbers and statistics, but who has the best what, or who is the friendliest city, or what ever it is, is pure BS! There are only about 3 or 4 places I will go to eat pizza in this city now. There were others that have gone downhill for various reasons. Those being poor service, not enough or any tomato sauce, the quality of of ingredients has gone down, etc. 

You either like or dislike Chicago style pizza. I hate it. I f I want nasty lasagna I will get it. I do not like waiting 45 minutes to an hour for my pizza either. But those who like it, like it. I want to fold my pizza up and eat it. I am a fan of NY style pizza and the only two places that do it right are Joey's House of Pizza and Manny's house of Pizza. Not a big fan of Detroit style Pizza.

So, with that being said how many of you will disagree with me? You see what I am saying!

[Licec]

The best pizzas in the southeast that I've had were in Memphis and Atlanta. Memphis and Atlanta have better food scenes overall than Nashville.

[MLBrumby]

Just thought I'd put this out there.... thanks to a helpful regular commenter on this forum.

How to ignore a person on Urbanplanet.org:

1.  Hover over the poster's avatar to show an option box with 3 green rectangular boxes at the bottom. 

2. Click on the green "Ignore" box. 

3. Click on "Update Preferences"

Note: I don't believe this lets you ignore the commenter's history, but does for things going forward. 

Edited March 26 by MLBrumby

[BnaBreaker]

7 hours ago, smeagolsfree said:

These lists always leave me LMAO! They are just like what everyone one has to sit on and as wide and varied in between. How NYC is not on the list is beyond me and the number of people that like the garbage pizza out of Chicago would rank it higher than 14th.

All of these city rankings are most of time pretty worthless when it comes to ranking food as they are opinions and polls based on peoples taste. There is no way to rank these things scientifically. You can rank other things through numbers and statistics, but who has the best what, or who is the friendliest city, or what ever it is, is pure BS! There are only about 3 or 4 places I will go to eat pizza in this city now. There were others that have gone downhill for various reasons. Those being poor service, not enough or any tomato sauce, the quality of of ingredients has gone down, etc. 

You either like or dislike Chicago style pizza. I hate it. I f I want nasty lasagna I will get it. I do not like waiting 45 minutes to an hour for my pizza either. But those who like it, like it. I want to fold my pizza up and eat it. I am a fan of NY style pizza and the only two places that do it right are Joey's House of Pizza and Manny's house of Pizza. Not a big fan of Detroit style Pizza.

So, with that being said how many of you will disagree with me? You see what I am saying!

To each their own!  Even without the Chicago style places though Chicago is still an amazing pizza city. We've got PLENTY of places that will sell you the NY style foldable piece of card board covered with pre-shredded grocery store mozzarella that you're looking for! 

Edited March 26 by BnaBreaker

[ruraljuror]

On 3/25/2022 at 10:23 AM, Armacing said:

No, those are houses.  Just because the owner of those houses chooses to use them for STR instead of LTR or sell them outright doesn't change the nature of the buildings themselves.

The nature of the buildings themselves? I have a really hard time believing that you've never seen a house that's been converted into a law office, yoga studio, art gallery, coffee shop, bar, restaurant, tattoo parlor, salon...the list goes on. In fact, we happen to have a fairly famous 'row' of music studios and publishing houses that you may have heard of.  It should be self-evident that the actual use of a structure affects its value and where it fits in the marketplace far more than a label like 'houses' - which not everyone would define to include a tall skinny triplex like the hypothetical we're discussing here to begin with, btw.

To illustrate, if a developer buys an apartment building and decides to convert to condo sales instead of rentals, that puts upward price pressure on the local apartment rental market because of decrease in supply, and downward price pressure on the condo/home sale market because of the increase in supply. It doesn't matter whether you call them apartments or condos (and in fact some markets use these terms interchangeably), what matters is how the space is used and how it affects markets accordingly.

If a single family home is torn down and replaced by a tall, skinny triplex with three units that are then put on the market for sale, for example, the net effect is downward price pressure on the condo/home sale market because of a net increase in supply. Simple enough. If those triplex units are rented out on a long-term basis, on the other hand, then the net effect is upward price pressure on the condo/home sale market because of decreased supply (from the torn down house), and downward price pressure on the rental market because of new units coming online. Taken one step further, if those triplex units are rented out on a short-term-basis, then the net effect is upward price pressure on the home/condo sales market because of decrease in supply, and downward price pressure in the hotel/short term rental markets. Astonishing no one, these market dynamics are exactly what we're seeing in our local markets - it's like an econ 101 case study that we're all watching play out in real time.

To be clear, however, I don't think that the affordable housing issues are even the primary factor driving AirBnB backlash and regulation. Noise, parking, and 'changing the character of the neighborhood' have been the chief complaints in the neighborhood meetings I've attended on these matters, and the main issue tends to center on non-owner occupied properties. It's one thing if your neighbor cuts hair out of their kitchen to make some extra money, or produces music from their home studio, or uses their garage to store inventory for their start up, etc. It's a very different thing however if your neighbor moves away and turns their old house into a full-time commercial salon, or recording studio, or a warehouse with big trucks regularly loading and unloading deliveries in the driveway. Similarly, it's reasonable for people who have purchased homes in areas not zoned for hotel use to expect that the house next door won't be converted into a de facto hotel with no owner or even an operator onsite. Allowing non-owner occupied AirBnBs in the first place, even with neighborhood caps, is a gift to AirBnB by enabling investors to operate a hotel business model in places where doing so under another name would be strictly prohibited. As painstakingly noted above, what you call the structure is irrelevant, and if investors want to invest in a hotel business, there are ample other opportunities for them to do so in places where hotels are already allowed to go, and if there are enough people that want to remove those hotel restrictions or redraw the boundaries of where hotels (or salons, studios, warehouses, etc.) are allowed to conduct business, that's what elections are for.

Edited March 27 by ruraljuror