Federal Courthouse, 6 & 8 stories, 276,000 sq. ft.,

[Guest 5th & Main Urbanite]

Since we are not getting ours for at least another 3 years according to Jim Cooper, I thought I would start a thread of new courthouse pictures.

 

Here is the new one from Cleveland, Ohio:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CarlStokesFCH.jpg

[BnaBreaker]

Man...that is exponentially better than the glorified Embassy Suites that is proposed for us. 

[barakat]

I don't know how old this is, but these renderings are a bit different from others out there. Notice the circular loggia surrounding the entrance on this version, and how strongly the building addresses the corner. Also notice the simplified facade of the building, maybe a bit better-looking than the other renderings.

http://www.riccigreene.com/project_desc.php?pid=143&type_id=3

Here are two other versions [also posted elsewhere on UP]:

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c373/pth3rd/NewPicture.png

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b86/busypanda/Courthouse.jpg

[fieldmarshaldj]

The Carl Stokes-Cleveland Courthouse is beautiful. Modernist, yet with a classical touch.

 

Seeing that in comparison to the ghastly local courthouse plan is sickening... and I know I said it before, but what on earth could prompt the architects to put a giant cherry-picker on the roof. I for one am grateful that thing was never built. Can we get the architect for Stokes on the phone, please ?

Edited August 5, 2013 by fieldmarshaldj

[bigeasy]

Wow...I never liked the design of ours, but after seeing what Cleveland has I am appalled that Nashville would even propose what they did.

[MLBrumby]

You guys can thank Jim Cooper; the worst representative in all of Congress. The Tennessean asked him once why Nashville had been bumped down the GSA priority list for the past fifteen years, and he said, "I don't know."  

[UTgrad09]

You guys can thank Jim Cooper; the worst representative in all of Congress. The Tennessean asked him once why Nashville had been bumped down the GSA priority list for the past fifteen years, and he said, "I don't know."

Oh, I think he knew. I don't think he wanted to answer that other congressmen were willing to pull strings he doesn't want to pull.

[Guest 5th & Main Urbanite]

You guys can thank Jim Cooper; the worst representative in all of Congress. The Tennessean asked him once why Nashville had been bumped down the GSA priority list for the past fifteen years, and he said, "I don't know."  

Media ran a story we recently discussed on this site. Developers have been interested in the courthouse site for a variety of projects including building a couple of high rises, but Cooper would hear nothing of it. He was not going to ask the Federal Govt. to sell the land. Karl Dean did not want to get involved with the Feds per the article, but he does want the land developed for many reasons. Cooper is being arrogant, and will not entertain the thought of anything else going there. Cooper recently became part of the Paul Ryan Budget Reform Committee, so there is no way we are getting this courthouse anytime soon. It will be another 3-5 years minimum. This project was announce in Spring of 2001 as I recall.

[BnaBreaker]

wouldnt cancelling the project and selling the property to a developer be good for the federal budget?

[UTgrad09]

wouldnt cancelling the project and selling the property to a developer be good for the federal budget?

Of course not. There are probably so many unnecessary forms to fill out and committees to pass and studies to be done that it will end up costing more to sell it than sit on it.

[MLBrumby]

wouldnt cancelling the project and selling the property to a developer be good for the federal budget?

 

Actually it wouldn't make a dent.  Sad, isn't it. Interestingly, there is a way that a private contractor could have done this project (three times over) in the time it has taken the feds to get "this far". I realize that most posters here don't ever darken the doors of the Kefauver building, but at 61 years old it's a true dump and a security risk as GSA reports from 2001-2011 have clearly explained.

 

Nice try though.  It is funny that I had a sentence following the original post because I predicted (correctly of course) that one of the "progs" here would make this point.  I deleted it to be nice, but since a prog predictably went political here, the sentence was:  "Cooper refuses to do his constitutional duty by funding the judiciary while at the same time voting for a $2.8 trillion dollar boondoggle" (aka Obamacare). 

 

I tried!  (Aaaah, what's a billion dollars?  Um... how bout a trillion?   Some people just can't understand the difference.)   If you're going to defend Jim Cooper though, you'll be hard-pressed to find many of your leftist brothers and sisters to join you. Most of them can't stand him and certainly have very little respect for him.  Personally, I have had the (dis)pleasure of too many meals with the man; and  I keep wondering when Nashvilliians will wise up to him, but they keep sending him back to the dome. I would never expect them to send a true conservative to Washington, but they could at least get someone with integrity and who doesn't believe he is entitled to the job.  Even a hardcore leftist like John Lewis (whom I have met on several occasions) has a great deal more class than Cooper. 

Edited August 6, 2013 by MLBrumby

[BnaBreaker]

Actually it wouldn't make a dent.  Sad, isn't it. Interestingly, there is a way that a private contractor could have done this project (three times over) in the time it has taken the feds to get "this far". I realize that most posters here don't ever darken the doors of the Kefauver building, but at 61 years old it's a true dump and a security risk as GSA reports from 2001-2011 have clearly explained.

 

Nice try though.  It is funny that I had a sentence following the original post because I predicted (correctly of course) that one of the "progs" here would make this point.  I deleted it to be nice, but since a prog predictably went political here, the sentence was:  "Cooper refuses to do his constitutional duty by funding the judiciary while at the same time voting for a $2.8 trillion dollar boondoggle" (aka Obamacare). 

 

I tried!  (Aaaah, what's a billion dollars?  Um... how bout a trillion?   Some people just can't understand the difference.)   If you're going to defend Jim Cooper though, you'll be hard-pressed to find many of your leftist brothers and sisters to join you. Most of them can't stand him and certainly have very little respect for him.  Personally, I have had the (dis)pleasure of too many meals with the man; and  I keep wondering when Nashvilliians will wise up to him, but they keep sending him back to the dome. I would never expect them to send a true conservative to Washington, but they could at least get someone with integrity and who doesn't believe he is entitled to the job.  Even a hardcore leftist like John Lewis (whom I have met on several occasions) has a great deal more class than Cooper. 

 

I'm confused.  Was all of that directed at me? 

Edited August 6, 2013 by BnaBreaker

[samsonh]

Actually it wouldn't make a dent.  Sad, isn't it. Interestingly, there is a way that a private contractor could have done this project (three times over) in the time it has taken the feds to get "this far". I realize that most posters here don't ever darken the doors of the Kefauver building, but at 61 years old it's a true dump and a security risk as GSA reports from 2001-2011 have clearly explained.

 

Nice try though.  It is funny that I had a sentence following the original post because I predicted (correctly of course) that one of the "progs" here would make this point.  I deleted it to be nice, but since a prog predictably went political here, the sentence was:  "Cooper refuses to do his constitutional duty by funding the judiciary while at the same time voting for a $2.8 trillion dollar boondoggle" (aka Obamacare). 

 

I tried!  (Aaaah, what's a billion dollars?  Um... how bout a trillion?   Some people just can't understand the difference.)   If you're going to defend Jim Cooper though, you'll be hard-pressed to find many of your leftist brothers and sisters to join you. Most of them can't stand him and certainly have very little respect for him.  Personally, I have had the (dis)pleasure of too many meals with the man; and  I keep wondering when Nashvilliians will wise up to him, but they keep sending him back to the dome. I would never expect them to send a true conservative to Washington, but they could at least get someone with integrity and who doesn't believe he is entitled to the job.  Even a hardcore leftist like John Lewis (whom I have met on several occasions) has a great deal more class than Cooper. 

 

Lol

[UTgrad09]

Actually it wouldn't make a dent.  Sad, isn't it. Interestingly, there is a way that a private contractor could have done this project (three times over) in the time it has taken the feds to get "this far". I realize that most posters here don't ever darken the doors of the Kefauver building, but at 61 years old it's a true dump and a security risk as GSA reports from 2001-2011 have clearly explained.

 

Nice try though.  It is funny that I had a sentence following the original post because I predicted (correctly of course) that one of the "progs" here would make this point.  I deleted it to be nice, but since a prog predictably went political here, the sentence was:  "Cooper refuses to do his constitutional duty by funding the judiciary while at the same time voting for a $2.8 trillion dollar boondoggle" (aka Obamacare). 

 

I tried!  (Aaaah, what's a billion dollars?  Um... how bout a trillion?   Some people just can't understand the difference.)   If you're going to defend Jim Cooper though, you'll be hard-pressed to find many of your leftist brothers and sisters to join you. Most of them can't stand him and certainly have very little respect for him.  Personally, I have had the (dis)pleasure of too many meals with the man; and  I keep wondering when Nashvilliians will wise up to him, but they keep sending him back to the dome. I would never expect them to send a true conservative to Washington, but they could at least get someone with integrity and who doesn't believe he is entitled to the job.  Even a hardcore leftist like John Lewis (whom I have met on several occasions) has a great deal more class than Cooper. 

 

Dude...

[captainwjm]

Am I mistaken; I thought that the Feds only had an option on that property?

[smeagolsfree]

As far as I know, the Feds own it. I may be mistaken.

[mirydi]

Since we are not getting ours for at least another 3 years according to Jim Cooper, I thought I would start a thread of new courthouse pictures.

 

Here is the new one from Cleveland, Ohio:

 

http://en.wikipedia....rlStokesFCH.jpg

 

Damn! Now that's a courthouse!

 

Would love to have something on par with that here.

Edited August 7, 2013 by mirydi

[Neigeville2]

If the Jim Cooper Center for Effective Governance can't be built, what I think would suit the site is a mixed use project on a scale with that beautiful Beaux Arts building across the street with lots of street activation, up to the sidewalk for 2 stories then with a little step back for a terrace with restaurant/bar seating, some apartments above but not too tall.  I really think the area needs more activation and the courthouse might bring more people but it's not that...activating.  And the design doesn't lend much of a feeling of enclosure to the street.  And its ugly.

[smeagolsfree]

If we can get a new design for the courthouse, with about 20 stories, I would be happy as a bug in a rug. Maybe he is jealous and wants it named after him instead of Bill Frist. Then we could call it the super duper cooper courthouse. Sort of has a ring to it.

[UTgrad09]

The Cooper-Frist Center for Visual Farts.

[MidTenn1]

With the news that the proposed new Federal Courthouse may be back on schedule for construction (from the Nashville Bits and Pieces forum).....

 

 

 

Latest rumor on the Federal Courthouse.... FWIW

"Angela Davenport Smith Actually my Chief said that we are first on the list to have a new Courthouse built, and according to GSA and the Chief Judge, the courthouse should start within the next year or so, and they have put the model back on the 7th floor of the courthouse...which is good news!! Too bad I have just retired and won't get to work in it!"

 

 

 ....and the subsequent reaction, which was basically a rehash of opinions formed from the introduction of the original rendering....

 

 

...which, even in my opinion, were deserved at the time, I feel compelled to offer a defense of the revised design and of the architect, Michael Graves.

 

I have always been a Michael Graves fan and have admired his bold and innovative approach to building design. If I were to build something that I wanted to be the signature structure of my world, I would go to him first. Some of my favorite examples..

 

 

A Portland, Oregon public building built in the 80's. The building that drew notice to his particular style of design. (every building should have a distinct bottom, middle and top..)

 

 

Nearby in Louisville, The Humana Building...

 

 

Or one I discovered while visiting the University of Cincinnati campus...

 

 

 

Micheal Graves is a rock star in American Architecture and I was delighted to learn Nashville was getting such a prominent architect to add to the skyline. A very good article in the Nashville scene a few years ago illustrated how seriously he was taking the project as they described his reaction at seeing the limestone dome on top of the NES building which was apparently a very rare feature on any building in the USA. He incorporated a dome into his design, possibly from the inspiration he received.

 

Yes, the original renderings revealed a very substandard design by Graves standards. But he went back to the drawing board and produced a design that is worthy of his talents and hopefully raises the bar for future Nashville architectural design.

 

 

An updated render, but still of poor quality.

 

 

And an interior view of the previously mentioned dome...

 

 

The new design has many architectural elements in the facade that break up the mass of the facade. It is a huge improvement and in no way resembles an HCA Hospital or Hampton Inn. I am glad we will have a bold design on the skyline (170 ft ?) and not the bland glass box or Las Vegas lite stuff passing for architecture in Nashville these days. Graves is Picasso, while just about everything else proposed in Nashville is the architectural equivalent of a '3 dogs playing poker' painting.

 

Let's take risks! Bring on Calatrava

 

 

 

or Frank Gehry 

 

 

[CenterHill]

Thanks for posting those, PH.     I was hoping someone could re-post the revised design.     I remembered it as being a big improvement over the original design, although at the time I discounted it as unlikely to ever get built.  

 

Still, it does beg the question whether this will be the final design or if we'll see yet another update.   

[arkitekte]

Frank Gehry will leave your roof leaking...joking, but seriously.

 

As far as the notion to look toward another architect, or more specifically a different approach to solving the "issues" around form and function, I agree. It was beat into my head in architecture school to love Michael Graves because of his advances in post modernism, but honestly I've never found it attractive overall (not post modernism,just his approach). I often look at architecture in the "often imitated never duplicated" mindset which I think holds true with international, modern, Chicago style, Bauhaus, etc., but not post modernism. 

[MLBrumby]

I like Gehry's designs overall, but don't think anything he has done suggests he would be a good choice to design a federal courthouse... not sure about Calatrava... and Graves probably has the "unfortunate" position of having been imitated too much over the past 30 years.  And I agree that his design for this courthouse is "substandard" for him... and any other prominent architect.

 

Then again, I tend to be a traditionalist when it comes to federal buildings.

 

[nashvillwill]

The thing I am most worried about (other than having a half decent design) is how the open space is used. I understand that this building HAS to have a huge setback. No way around it really. Now if that setback is used to have nice fountains and shaded public plaza's, I'll be happy. If it's a crappy suburban lawn with retaining walls everywhere, I will be severely disgusted.