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Duncan Park Stadium Renovation


westsider28

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Drayton Mill is a poor example for your point, Sparkleman.  It is likely going to be renovated into apartments (see this thread).  And Pacolet Milliken is not some amateur, absentee landlord; they keep the place in good shape (I toured it a few months ago).  And the mill is only 1 mile from all the stores/restaurants at Hillcrest, so that's a big reason to want to live there (among others).

 

Furthermore, your general statement about our historic assets deteriorating may have been true in the past, but it is proving not to be the case anymore.  Finally we are seeing many renovations and restorations of these places (see: DuPre house, Magnolia Lofts, Evans Building, Schuyler Building, etc).

 

Back on topic: here are some photos of the Duncan Park renovations from a few days ago.

 

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Apparently the white paint was just a base coat, because the metal supports are now "baseball stadium green".  Rotten wood has been replaced on the exterior of the stands on both sides.  Work seems to be going on in the bleachers, as well.  Happy to see this progressing!

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Just making conversation here, but we have many historical assets left. The problem is they just sit vacant and deteriorate and eventually catch on fire in many instances. Look at Drayton Mill for example. Sure its still standing, but what are you going to do with it? You might can turn it into lofts, but who's dying to live in that mill village? You could turn it into a textile museum, but who'd go? Also I grew up in Converse Heights and can tell you a number of reasons why I will never move back: 1) lack of water pressure, 2) no walk in closets, 3) faulty wiring & plumbing, 4) small bathrooms, etc. Sure if you have plenty of cash these things can be overcome, but a lot of these things take time/money to fix that folks don't have or think about before they move in. Its stylish to live in the "Heights" but actually living there is a pain.

 

I am not against history at all (note I own a 66 Ford Mustang), but if you don't have a plan to preserve it what good is it. There is no way I'd spend 12K to preserve my stang if it needed it. Which is why I am taking the stance that 500+K to redo Duncan Park stadium so a high school that's 3 miles away can play there sounds ridiculous. You think District 7 taxpayers got to vote on this? When we get to vote on board members, it'll be too late by then.

 

Trust me: if Duncan Park were razed about 5% (if that) of the Spartanburg population would give a crap. Most folks wouldn't even know it was there were SHS not trying to restore it.

 

So, because you don't like living in or maintaining an historic home we should tear down stadium?

 

Spartan High's biggest challenge is having a very small campus. They already play football off campus, what's wrong with baseball too? There isn't enough room to accommodate all sports on campus, so what are the alternatives? Dorman had a similar problem, so they built a campus for a crapload of money way out in the middle of nowhere.

 

It seems to me that your issue is at least partially related to location. If the stadium were already downtown, or at least not in the middle of a neighborhood, would you be more in favor of restoring it?

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First off when I was in high school some 30 years ago, SHS paid Wofford 35K a year to "rent" Snyder field for football. I have no idea what it is now but I imagine its a huge chunk of change since its Gibbs stadium. Now District 7 is using 500K + for baseball to watch what will be the equivalent of Kansas City Royal baseball on the high school level. No other school district that I know of spends $$$ like the 7. Sure its a small campus, but I said this before on another thread. SHS should follow Dorman's lead and move the campus to somewhere bigger (maybe the old Lan Yair site). Dorman made a sh*t ton of dough when they sold that land and moved to Roebuck and SHS could do the same (wouldn't make near as much as it would be residential land and not commercial). Sure Dorman may be in the middle of nowhere, but its the 2nd largest high school in the state (Wando) so that nowhere is now a somewhere.

 

As for the stadium itself, yes if it were downtown it would make a difference as it would be another destination. Why do you think Greenville abandoned the old Braves stadium out on Maulden Rd and built a new one downtown? It sure wasn't because it was in disrepair.

 

If any of you lived in District 7 maybe you would feel as I do but since its not coming out of your pocket, you just assume "oh well its ok".

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Dorman being the one of the biggest high schools in the state is pretty meaningless. The campus itself is one of the worst in the nation in terms of design and accessibility. Nobody can walk or bike there, and transportation costs are higher due to it being further away from the center of population. Wando has the same problem.

 

I'm losing track of your argument though. Comparing $35k (per year) to rent a facility for football in the 80s versus $500k (one time capital cost) to restore and own a baseball facility in the 2010s is a bit of a stretch. Even if you take it down to the rent vs own argument, the higher up front cost to only have to maintain and operate a facility is way cheaper over time. I'm assuming it would be several years to see the cost savings, and since Dist 7 isn't going anywhere that's not a major issue for them.

 

The difference between the Greenville stadium on Mauldin Rd and Duncan Park is that the Mauldin Rd facility was not historic. It was built in the 70's or 80's (I think). The point is that it wasn't historic to begin with. I would bet that it would have been way cheaper to renovate or build a new park out in the suburbs, but they made a good choice.

 

The other difference is that we aren't Greenville. I think Spartanburg needs to figure out how to do things it's own way, using Greenville as a model for success, just without being a carbon copy. Spartanburg has it's own unique history and I think it needs to take advantage of the random unique things about it.

 

Further, while I do not live in Dist 7, I do live in a city that uses my property tax dollars for all sorts of weird things (school districts don't have tax authority here). We just paid $45 or $50 million to renovate BofA Stadium to lock the Panthers in town for 10 more years (or something to that effect) even though they weren't planning to leave in the first place. IMO, $500k even for a more tight-fisted community like Spartanburg is still a bargain given the alternative.

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Man Spartan, are you living in the 50's or something? What kid would even think of biking to high school and risk being ridiculed for doing so? I am sure there are some granola places somewhere that this happens but not on the whole. Sure Dorman is in the middle of nowhere, but I'll bet that land was CHEAP and enabled them to do a lot with it and they can expand at any time. SHS has been ignorant & chosen to stay where they are, thus having to go down the road of frivolous spending.

 

As for my original argument, I am just sick and tired of being taxed over and over by the stupid decisions District 7 makes.

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Sparkleman, if you are being taxed that much then you need to check your bill with the auditor's office.  For the past several years, our property taxes for education have been slashed (putting schools in a bind by the way).  On my current bill I see what my tax is on the left, but on the right I see "less education" excemption which is around 85% less than what I should be paying.  If you are not getting that discount, then something is wrong.

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Man Spartan, are you living in the 50's or something? What kid would even think of biking to high school and risk being ridiculed for doing so? I am sure there are some granola places somewhere that this happens but not on the whole. Sure Dorman is in the middle of nowhere, but I'll bet that land was CHEAP and enabled them to do a lot with it and they can expand at any time. SHS has been ignorant & chosen to stay where they are, thus having to go down the road of frivolous spending.

 

As for my original argument, I am just sick and tired of being taxed over and over by the stupid decisions District 7 makes.

Really? The 50s? I live a mile from SHS and have a kid going there. He has walked home many times, and has ridden his bike to some practices. I have ridden my bike there at least 10 times for different reasons. I know a teacher that walks or rides his bike to work at SHS. Yes, more kids probably walk than bike because of the cool factor you mentioned. Personally, I love the location of SHS and think the building is great, especially considering it was built in 1960. Plus, the attached Freshman Academy has some new construction. I was pissed when they redid the athletic fields and got rid of on campus baseball. But with the addition of the 9th grade 3 years ago, plus Lacrosse (JV and varsity) the school needed more practice fields. Of course if the good folks of this county are really worried about tax money they would combine the 7 school districts to 3 or 4. Then maybe a sport complex (baseball, football, track) could be shared. Most places do this kind of stuff. Maybe I am old fashion, but I prefer a school in a neighborhood with sidewalks and residential streets opposed to an interstate and a 4 lane highway.                     

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Hey I'm an SHS grad here, but things have changed a lot since I was there (late 70's). For one the school is half the size it used to be and that's part of why any kind of merger has been whispered about.The whole share a sports complex or merge districts idea has been floating around for a while. SHS only wants something from Broome (District 3) if it really benefits them, otherwise they are so snobbish they don't want anything to do with what they consider a hick school district. There also is no way 7 would merge with 4 which is Woodruff due to the logistics so its either 3 or nothing and I really don't see it happening.

 

IMHO if District 7 was truly thinking ahead before the recession hit (as Mr. Booker stated when the renovations started at Duncan Park), it might have made sense to start looking for an alternate location for the school. In the last 3-5 years, SHS has completely redone the gym, added a lacrosse field, more practice fields, a freshman academy addition, and now taken on the task of renovating Duncan Park since there is nowhere on campus to play baseball.

 

Of course all this is wishful thinking and I am sure District 7 will continue to band aid the schools and or stadiums rather than build new ones which is what most other districts have done or are doing.

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This discussion has gotten way off topic.

 

But anyway, where in the city is there a plot of land larger than SHS's current campus that they could've even built a new school?  I can only think of the former Lan-Yair land, but that's very close to District 3.  The current campus is centrally located.  Plus, as drexel mentioned, the current campus is ideal from a bicycling and walkability standpoint. 

 

Surely if you post on this forum and follow current development trends nationwide, you realize that everyone is going back to compact, dense, walkable urban development (instead of sprawl like Dorman).  Attitudes are changing, and people actually value walkability again.  And not just in "granola places"; try Charlotte, Raleigh, Greenville, Columbia, even Atlanta.

 

Also, Dorman cost $70 million to build (in 2001 dollars).  Plus Dorman is now building a $35 million auditorium / college and career center and a $3.8 million gymnasium expansion.  I guarantee that all of Spartan High's renovations combined have not cost nearly that much.

 

Back on topic: Again, I am very happy that Duncan Park Stadium is being renovated, and I guarantee that years in the future we will be glad it was.

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Hmm... Maybe you are still living in the 80s! :) Walking to school is quite normal if it's not an unreasonable walk. I talk to parents all over Charlotte that want to be able to walk their kids to school (though they often can't due to the location of the school (similar to the Dorman situation). I will agree that high schoolers may be less apt to do it but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't provide the opportunity in terms of school location and infrastructure. South Carolina has one of the highest obesity rates in the nation and one of the lowest physical activity rates. If we continue to create environments where walking is difficult, unpleasant, or discouraged, then this problem will be reversed. That is why Dormans campus is such a bad thing.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Another update: new wooden framework is being put up on the right field side of the stands, and a new foul ball net is being installed.  A new scoreboard has been erected at center field.  It looks like it may have a small videoboard.  I really like that the scoreboard is topped by a classic analog clock.  Very cool!  :thumbsup:

 

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(It's hard to see, but there are also circular, vine-like embellishments on each side of the clock. Nice detail.)

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Hmm... Maybe you are still living in the 80s! :) Walking to school is quite normal if it's not an unreasonable walk. I talk to parents all over Charlotte that want to be able to walk their kids to school (though they often can't due to the location of the school (similar to the Dorman situation). I will agree that high schoolers may be less apt to do it but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't provide the opportunity in terms of school location and infrastructure. South Carolina has one of the highest obesity rates in the nation and one of the lowest physical activity rates. If we continue to create environments where walking is difficult, unpleasant, or discouraged, then this problem will be reversed. That is why Dormans campus is such a bad thing.

 
Whatev... I walked to school back when gas was out of sight in the 70's but never again after that. I drive through Converse Heights and Hillbrook every day and never see anyone walking to school except for the folks that live right across from the school, No one in their right mind allows kids to walk to school anymore because today's society is a bunch of wussies. Too scared that the kids will be run over, beat up, or snatched. All are of course possible, but not likely.
 
A had a chat with a few SHS reps over a few brews during the snow out last week. You have no idea how insanely jealous they are of the space & opportunities that Dorman's campus provides them. Everything is in one place with land to spare and easy access to the interstates for road games. How any of you clowns can be against this or think its not the best is insane to me. Give me a break on the obesity angle as Washington has been trying to solve this riddle for 30 years with no success. You honestly think our local govt is gonna solve it. Dorman went from 2nd class school in Sptbg Cty 15 yrs ago to state leader in everything. I'm sure all the students think the locale is horrible in light of the recent accomplishments.
Edited by Sparkleman
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I think perhaps you are misreading my point. I agree that obesity is not solely government's problem to solve, but government does have a role in the solution. The location of schools is certainly a part of the equation. Similarly, concepts like Spartanburg's downtown urban code and master plan are great examples of how government can be proactive.

 

What I'm saying that it is well documented that the way we design our built environment (cities, location and design of buildings, layout and design of streets, etc.) affects how people operate within it. If we build our cities only for cars, people will choose to drive. If we build it for pedestrians, people will choose to walk. This is not an opinion, it is fact. Places with more pleasant walking environments have more pedestrians out and about. This is not something that changes whole sale and overnight. Spartanburg will be an auto-centric city overall, but it can have walkable places within it (i.e.: downtown). 

 

What I am talking about here is choice. People should be able to choose whatever mode of transportation they want and be able to safely get to wherever they need to go. So, by locating schools in urban/walkable environments you enable people to choose to walk if they want to, and you allow those who choose to drive to spend less money and time on transportation.You also save the school district money on transportation/busing costs on a day to day basis by being centrally located (less mileage on buses being sent all over). If you weigh in those factors, I bet it more than makes up for the cost to send the kids to an off-campus facility 10 minutes away. 

 

I guarantee you that more people walk to that school, or home from it if they are dropped off in the morning, than you think- though I'm not suggesting that it is a large percentage of the overall population. I deal with similar situations all over Charlotte where kids walk to school in all types of situations. I always hear how "nobody walks" and yet people are begging for sidewalks so they can walk places. This pattern extends across all geographies (urban, suburban) and social economic status.  I've seen lots of parents walking their kids to Pine Street Elementary, so many that the City upgraded the intersections nearby with crosswalks and flashing signs to make it safer, so I know that people walk to schools in Spartanburg. While there may be relatively few kids walking to SHS on a daily basis, at least they have the opportunity if they need or want to. At Dorman, you can't walk there even if you wanted to, so it is an example of government forcing a lifestyle decision on people (using cars).

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Whatev... I walked to school back when gas was out of sight in the 70's but never again after that. I drive through Converse Heights and Hillbrook every day and never see anyone walking to school except for the folks that live right across from the school, No one in their right mind allows kids to walk to school anymore because today's society is a bunch of wussies. Too scared that the kids will be run over, beat up, or snatched. All are of course possible, but not likely.
 
A had a chat with a few SHS reps over a few brews during the snow out last week. You have no idea how insanely jealous they are of the space & opportunities that Dorman's campus provides them. Everything is in one place with land to spare and easy access to the interstates for road games. How any of you clowns can be against this or think its not the best is insane to me. Give me a break on the obesity angle as Washington has been trying to solve this riddle for 30 years with no success. You honestly think our local govt is gonna solve it. Dorman went from 2nd class school in Sptbg Cty 15 yrs ago to state leader in everything. I'm sure all the students think the locale is horrible in light of the recent accomplishments.

 

Please see my post from Jan. 2. I still think you are out of touch. My son is 15 and we live between SHS and Pine Street School. He rode his bike to school a lot in the 5th and 6th grade. He was not the ONLY kid to walk or ride a bike. None of my eastside friends are jealous of Dorman. We lived in Atlanta for 20+ years and think SHS, McCrackin, and Pine Street are great!          

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I think SHS, McCracken, Pine St. and other schools in Dist.7 are great also as I attended them. However if you think they are on par with what Dorman and district 6 have shaking, maybe you're the one out of touch. Have you ever even been inside Dorman? Amazing does not begin to describe it. Have you seen the new fine arts/theatre going up out there? I am not even sure SHS even has a theatre and if they do, I'm sure its ancient.

 

I am just saying it would be nice if SHS had everything under one roof instead of its amenities all over town.

Edited by Sparkleman
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I think the disagreement here is that you are talking the building itself, whereas I'm talking about where the building is. I agree that the SHS building is horrible. I went there to tat my SATs and I found it to be very confusing. I won't argue against a new building either, so long as they keep it on the same site :)

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  • 3 weeks later...

The Herald-Journal has an article about the stadium renovations, as Spartan High just had their first home game of the season last night.  The article describes these improvements as the first substantial renovations since the park opened.  The work is mostly structural, adds handicap accessibility, addresses drainage issues, and adds seats in the lower level.  Work will continue for the next month or so.

 

Seating in the covered portion, concession areas and permanent restroom facilities are part of the next renovation phase when funds become available.

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  • 10 months later...

More renovations have been going on at Duncan Park lately.  I noticed on January 1 that they had removed all the seats under the roof.  Since the historic circa-1914 seats from Philly's Shibe Park were among them, I was concerned.  However, it appears that the historic seats have been refurbished and reinstalled under the roof at the center of the stands!  I am so happy to see that.  District 7 deserves a ton of credit and thanks for all of its renovation/preservation work at Duncan Park.

 

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Some other misc items: it looks like they're building a wider staircase (pic 2).  The walkway the stairs will lead to was effectively widened when they replaced the box seats with 2 rows instead of the original 4. They also finished up some drainage and landscaping work behind the left-field stands.

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  • 5 years later...

Here's an article about how the recent Duncan Park stadium renovations helped land a CPL team.  The franchise is relocating from Gastonia, who got a new Atlantic League team.  The new Spartanburg team plans to make more upgrades to the ballpark that will boost attendance numbers and help the team serve larger crowds, like creating group areas down the lines with tents and tables.  Beginning in November, the franchise will ask for the community's help in naming the team through its soon-to-be-created social media channels.

What do you think the team name should be?  I'd like to see a throwback, like Peaches.  Good mascot/merch/activity potential around that name, too.

@Spartan Can you un-archive the Duncan Park Stadium Renovation thread?  Seems like that's a better place to talk about this.

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2 hours ago, westsider28 said:

Here's an article about how the recent Duncan Park stadium renovations helped land a CPL team.  The franchise is relocating from Gastonia, who got a new Atlantic League team.  The new Spartanburg team plans to make more upgrades to the ballpark that will boost attendance numbers and help the team serve larger crowds, like creating group areas down the lines with tents and tables.  Beginning in November, the franchise will ask for the community's help in naming the team through its soon-to-be-created social media channels.

What do you think the team name should be?  I'd like to see a throwback, like Peaches.  Good mascot/merch/activity potential around that name, too.

@Spartan Can you un-archive the Duncan Park Stadium Renovation thread?  Seems like that's a better place to talk about this.

I love the name "Peaches"!

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 10/28/2020 at 6:05 PM, westsider28 said:

Here's an article about how the recent Duncan Park stadium renovations helped land a CPL team.  The franchise is relocating from Gastonia, who got a new Atlantic League team.  The new Spartanburg team plans to make more upgrades to the ballpark that will boost attendance numbers and help the team serve larger crowds, like creating group areas down the lines with tents and tables.  Beginning in November, the franchise will ask for the community's help in naming the team through its soon-to-be-created social media channels.

What do you think the team name should be?  I'd like to see a throwback, like Peaches.  Good mascot/merch/activity potential around that name, too.

The website where you can submit your team name suggestion is now live here - https://baseballsc.com/

Submitting also gets you a free ticket to a game!

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/28/2020 at 6:05 PM, westsider28 said:

Here's an article about how the recent Duncan Park stadium renovations helped land a CPL team.  The franchise is relocating from Gastonia, who got a new Atlantic League team.  The new Spartanburg team plans to make more upgrades to the ballpark that will boost attendance numbers and help the team serve larger crowds, like creating group areas down the lines with tents and tables.  Beginning in November, the franchise will ask for the community's help in naming the team through its soon-to-be-created social media channels.

What do you think the team name should be?  I'd like to see a throwback, like Peaches.  Good mascot/merch/activity potential around that name, too.

@Spartan Can you un-archive the Duncan Park Stadium Renovation thread?  Seems like that's a better place to talk about this.

Sorry, I posted in the admin's forum in October and then totally forgot about this! Neo is going to un-archive the thread. I'll move the content over there once that happens.

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