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Grand Action - Convention Ctr Expansion/Stadium/Hotel

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39 minutes ago, RegalTDP said:

If they really want to attract conventions, they should go for an actual streetcar.  Go big or go home.

Agreed. Trolley buses are for Ft Lauderdale. Bring back the Monroe Ave streetcar idea! 

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42 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

GVSU's athletic administration has long been small-time thinkers. They would rather be the big fish in a small pond and use a small school mindset of promoting unqualified coaches from within because they're friends or family, beat up on 900 student schools like Lake Erie, etc. As much good as Selgo did for GVSU, I think GV would not have risen to greater heights with him at the helm. Thankfully, he retired last year. Unfortunately, GVSU did the most GVSU thing they could do and hired the woman he mentored. So...I think unless the area elite come forward and say, "Grand Rapids needs a Division I athletic program and we want GVSU to be that program," it will never be done. We'll continue to rack up Director's Cups as the top school in D2 (we have like 10 by now) while every other school that has won it or been runner-up in the past made the move up (Grand Canyon, Cal-Davis, Cal State-Bakersfield, Abilene Christian, North Dakota State, etc.)

Well, Ferris has been on a roll for a couple of seasons and just handed GVSU their butt last weekend so maybe D1 needs a second FSU instead?  Ferris already plays D1 in hockey I believe.  

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1 minute ago, wingbert said:

Well, Ferris has been on a roll for a couple of seasons and just handed GVSU their butt last weekend so maybe D1 needs a second FSU instead?  Ferris already plays D1 in hockey I believe.

Ferris could never afford to be a Division I program. Their hockey program makes it so they can't even fully fund their football team. Once Tony Annese moves up to a D1 job, Ferris will return to mediocrity. Plus - aside from their optometry and pharmacy grads that don't even like the school - they aren't exactly pumping out grads with the high salaries necessary to fund a D1 program. They're also too far from Grand Rapids to receive the attention of the area elites to garner donations.

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4 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

Ferris could never afford to be a Division I program. Their hockey program makes it so they can't even fully fund their football team. Once Tony Annese moves up to a D1 job, Ferris will return to mediocrity. Plus - aside from their optometry and pharmacy grads that don't even like the school - they aren't exactly pumping out grads with the high salaries necessary to fund a D1 program. They're also too far from Grand Rapids to receive the attention of the area elites to garner donations.

Now that's some funny stuff right there. Is there a Ferris homer lurking out there that would like to air some GVSU slurs?  As an independent observer I always kinda viewed the two schools somewhat equally.  Do they have that deep a rivalry that they insult the caliber of each other's graduates?  

However, I do agree that GVSU's proximity is an advantage over other schools like Western, Ferris, whoever.  However, in reading this thread it sounds as though they are committed to remaining a glorified community college.  Sounds like an opportunity for some other program to step up. 

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19 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Certainly, with room for a sea of parking. ;)

 

Soccer Stadium.jpg

I say go big or go home with the stadium. They don't seem interested in expanding Van Andel Arena and completing the bowl, so make an arena with a retractable roof for soccer.

IMG_2737.PNG

I like this site. Imagine those helicopter shots before commercials with our skyline in the background with the stadium reflecting off of the Grand. Having the stadium off of Wealthy places it right down the street from the bus and train stations as well, so people can be shuttled from there.

Across the river, the hotels and apartments needed can be built on that property they proposed for development a few years back. Make those buildings look spectacular and they would look awesome in the helicopter shot too.IMG_2738.JPG

Then have a trolley system running from the DeVos Place on Monroe, down Market where the hotel and apartments would be and finally have it continue down Wealthy to the bus and train stations.

Detroit is doing something like this with the Little Cesar's Arena (look on the right side of the image below).

IMG_2739.JPG

Edited by WMrapids
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1 hour ago, wingbert said:

Now that's some funny stuff right there. Is there a Ferris homer lurking out there that would like to air some GVSU slurs?  As an independent observer I always kinda viewed the two schools somewhat equally.  Do they have that deep a rivalry that they insult the caliber of each other's graduates?

However, I do agree that GVSU's proximity is an advantage over other schools like Western, Ferris, whoever.  However, in reading this thread it sounds as though they are committed to remaining a glorified community college.  Sounds like an opportunity for some other program to step up.

You haven't kept up with the progress of Grand Valley if you think Ferris and GV are on the same level.

Grand Valley is behind only UofM and MSU in average incoming GPA at 3.56. Compare that to Ferris' 3.20.

Grand Valley is the #27 regional university in the Midwest and #3 public regional university compared to Ferris at #74 regional and #18 public.

Ferris is ranked in zero fields of study. Grand Valley is ranked in business and engineering.

Ferris is known for Optometry and Pharmacy - programs that most people go into from other schools that they have stronger ties to - along with construction management and auto technology. Everything in between, they severely lack in quality. Grand Valley is known for business, health sciences (PA, PT, OT, RN, NP, DNP), public and nonprofit administration, and education. Everything in between, they're pretty average.

I couldn't care less about a rivalry. I'm speaking as someone educated on the matter and as a hiring manager.

They are the most likely school to be accepted at the D1 level by the NCAA. Davenport was rejected by the NCAA multiple times in their attempt to join D2 before the GLIAC eventually advocated for them out of desperation after all of the Ohio schools picked up and left for another conference. They are the most cut out for it as well. They just happen to be full of short sighted administrators that think D1 would somehow be a detriment to the student body.

Edited by GRLaker
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15 minutes ago, WMrapids said:

I say go big or go home with the stadium. They don't seem interested in expanding Van Andel Arena and completing the bowl, so make an arena with a retractable roof for soccer.

IMG_2737.PNG

I like this site. Imagine those helicopter shots before commercials with our skyline in the background with the stadium reflecting off of the Grand. Having the stadium off of Wealthy places it right down the street from the bus and train stations as well, so people can be shuttled from there.

Across the river, the hotels and apartments needed can be built on that property they proposed for development a few years back. Make those buildings look spectacular and they would look awesome in the helicopter shot too.IMG_2738.JPG

Then have a trolley system running from the DeVos Place on Monroe, down Market where the hotel and apartments would be and finally have it continue down Wealthy to the bus and train stations.

Detroit is doing something like this with the Little Cesar's Arena (look on the right side of the image below).

IMG_2739.JPG

Ooo...I love this. It would especially be amazing if they do dredge the river up to this point. A nice stadium across the river would also make investors more likely to want to build residential towers there, as opposed to the current lot.

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17 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

Ooo...I love this. It would especially be amazing if they do dredge the river up to this point. A nice stadium across the river would also make investors more likely to want to build residential towers there, as opposed to the current lot.

Not to mention that the old dump is just down the street on wealthy. Where a vast amount of youth soccer fields could be created and have pro and youth soccer in close proximity.

 

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1 hour ago, Pattmost20 said:

I keep reading 8,000 being the number for the stadium. Would the stadium be built with potential future expansion in mind? I know GRFC doesn't typically fill all 10,000 seats at Houseman, but I have no doubt that a higher level team could eventually fill an 8,000 seat stadium for big games. 

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27 minutes ago, EastownLeo said:

Not to mention that the old dump is just down the street on wealthy. Where a vast amount of youth soccer fields could be created and have pro and youth soccer in close proximity.

 

The beautification potential of this area is off the charts if they went with this area for the stadium and sports facility. I'm sure the current housing buildings going up on the west side will only increase as well and could move south to engulf the downtown GV campus and border the new athletic facilities. This, plus the addition on the east side of the river, would make for an amazing riverfront from the rapids down to the bend.

Edited by GRLaker
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32 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

You haven't kept up with the progress of Grand Valley if you think Ferris and GV are on the same level.

Grand Valley is behind only UofM and MSU in average incoming GPA at 3.56. Compare that to Ferris' 3.20.

Grand Valley is the #27 regional university in the Midwest and #3 public regional university compared to Ferris at #74 regional and #18 public.

Ferris is ranked in zero fields of study. Grand Valley is ranked in business and engineering.

Ferris is known for Optometry and Pharmacy - programs that most people go into from other schools that they have stronger ties to - along with construction management and auto technology. Everything in between, they severely lack in quality. Grand Valley is known for business, health sciences (PA, PT, OT, RN, NP, DNP), public and nonprofit administration, and education. Everything in between, they're pretty average.

I couldn't care less about a rivalry. I'm speaking as someone educated on the matter and as a hiring manager.

They are the most likely school to be accepted at the D1 level by the NCAA. Davenport was rejected by the NCAA multiple times in their attempt to join D2 before the GLIAC eventually advocated for them out of desperation after all of the Ohio schools picked up and left for another conference. They are the most cut out for it as well. They just happen to be full of short sighted administrators that think D1 would somehow be a detriment to the student body.

Admittedly I haven't really paid a great deal of attention to smaller schools like GVSU and Ferris so consider me enlightened by these statistics.  One cautionary note, I might think an employer would have some reservations about a hiring manager going by the handle GRLaker and showing such glaring partiality towards graduates of one school over another.  I'm pretty confident a hiring manager who graduated from Western, Central, Ferris, Calvin, Hope, Aquinas, etc. could put forth a similar argument for their own school.  Just like hospital rankings, automotive reviews, etc. there is a list and ranking for everybody and each school can find some ranking that highlights their strong points.  The same GVSU alumnus who happily trumpets their superiority over Western, Central, Ferris, Calvin, Hope, Aquinas and the rest of that crew would bristle with indignation were the same type of accusations leveled at them by a U of M, Notre Dame, or Harvard grad.  

It's all good.  I've got nothing against GVSU.  It seems like a good school and I certainly would like to see them keep growing for the benefit of our community.

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33 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

I keep reading 8,000 being the number for the stadium. Would the stadium be built with potential future expansion in mind? I know GRFC doesn't typically fill all 10,000 seats at Houseman, but I have no doubt that a higher level team could eventually fill an 8,000 seat stadium for big games. 

Let's just say 8000 is Grand Action's number, not GRFC's number. That conclusion was made using USL's current average stadium size. Most newer USL teams are going higher than that, like Cincinnati and Sacramento.

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5 minutes ago, wingbert said:

Admittedly I haven't really paid a great deal of attention to smaller schools like GVSU and Ferris so consider me enlightened by these statistics.  One cautionary note, I might think an employer would have some reservations about a hiring manager going by the handle GRLaker and showing such glaring partiality towards graduates of one school over another.  I'm pretty confident a hiring manager who graduated from Western, Central, Ferris, Calvin, Hope, Aquinas, etc. could put forth a similar argument for their own school.  Just like hospital rankings, automotive reviews, etc. there is a list and ranking for everybody and each school can find some ranking that highlights their strong points.  The same GVSU alumnus who happily trumpets their superiority over Western, Central, Ferris, Calvin, Hope, Aquinas and the rest of that crew would bristle with indignation were the same type of accusations leveled at them by a U of M, Notre Dame, or Harvard grad.

It's all good.  I've got nothing against GVSU.  It seems like a good school and I certainly would like to see them keep growing for the benefit of our community.

Good points. And my including the hiring manager part was more for indication of experience with graduates and impartiality. I would never favor one school over another, as I believe in the power of the individual over what school they attended. My initial statement was simply a matter of the popular areas of study within each school and the respective average salaries that go along with them. It takes an alumni base that's willing and able to fund a D1 program in order for it to come to fruition. I would say that GVSU isn't there yet and would need donor support from non-alumni (area leaders that see the regional benefit) in order for it to happen. If that doesn't happen, I would say give it another 10-20 years before the alumni base is large enough and hopefully bigger thinking school leaders come in to lead the charge.

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5 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Also, as far as having a hotel anchored to the Convention Center, couldn't that be done NOW with no additional space? Call me crazy, but I think it would be "relatively" easy to build something above DeVos place, with a small entrance/valet area and elevators up to a 4th or 5th story lobby. I could see it being done on the Northeast Corner of the building (SW corner of Monroe/Michigan) with a few support beams being added to the convention floor (meeting rooms/ballroom?), or between DeVos Hall and the Windquest building. It seems like that could be done now if that is "holding back" conventions.

If my memory serves me correctly, didn't some of the early designs for DeVos Place have a 40 story tower over the convention center?  I thought that they designed it to accommodate a tower. 

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4 hours ago, Pattmost20 said:

Let's just say 8000 is Grand Action's number, not GRFC's number. That conclusion was made using USL's current average stadium size. Most newer USL teams are going higher than that, like Cincinnati and Sacramento.

Toyota Field in San Antonio has been talking about going from 8000 seats to 18,000 seats recently:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/scorpions/article/Scorpions-unveil-Toyota-Field-expansion-proposal-5728075.php

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7 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Agreed. Trolley buses are for Ft Lauderdale. Bring back the Monroe Ave streetcar idea! 

Amen.  More like Ft Wayne.  Anyone can have trolley buses.  If you want to compete with bigger cities... Then compete, dammit.

Edited by RegalTDP
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31 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Toyota Field in San Antonio has been talking about going from 8000 seats to 18,000 seats recently:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/scorpions/article/Scorpions-unveil-Toyota-Field-expansion-proposal-5728075.php

I would expect we'd start around 11k, hopefully we'll have the ability to expand if needed. I think the jump to pro will increase demand for tickets by quite a bit. Not to mention adding beer sales. 

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5 minutes ago, Pattmost20 said:

I would expect we'd start around 11k, hopefully we'll have the ability to expand if needed. I think the jump to pro will increase demand for tickets by quite a bit. Not to mention adding beer sales. 

They're also talking about it doubling as an outdoor amphitheater for concerts. 3/4's of 11,000 seats (assuming the stage is at one end of the field) plus grass area could mean some top name acts could potentially come. 

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Because houseman field does not have a pro feel to it imo. Although it seats 10,000 it still does not have pro amenities like a more sophisticated scoreboard, video screen, concessions, etc. houseman field is more of a high school stadium for the most part.

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27 minutes ago, gvsusean said:

if houseman field is already 10,000 seats, then why do we need a new stadium?

I also read in one of the articles:

"There is also a venue to consider. Currently, the team plays at city-owned Houseman Field, which has football lines on its artificial-turf field and a track surrounding the playing field. Both are prohibited in the USL."

http://www.mlive.com/sports/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2016/12/grand_rapids_fc_in_talks_with.html

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2 hours ago, gvsusean said:

if houseman field is already 10,000 seats, then why do we need a new stadium?

It doesn't seat 10,000, it is closer to 8000. Besides the issues of turf, football lines, and the track brought up by others, GRFC pays a lot to use it, gives GRPS 100% of concession sales, and isn't allowed to have alcohol sales. Between paying rent, no concession money, and no alcohol, GRFC loses out on a lot of potential profit. 

Edited by Pattmost20
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1 hour ago, Pattmost20 said:

It doesn't seat 10,000, it is closer to 8000. Besides the issues of turf, football lines, and the track brought up by others, GRFC pays a lot to use it, gives GRPS 100% of concession sales, and isn't allowed to have alcohol sales. Between paying rent, no concession money, and no alcohol, GRFC loses out on a lot of potential profit. 

 

A football field surrounded by a track looks dumpy too

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Here's an interesting comparison of soccer stadiums in our sister cities.

IMG_2748.JPG

Stadion Miejski - Bielsko-Biała, Poland

Capcity: 15,292

Cost: $20 million (renovation only)

IMG_2749.JPG

Stadio Renato Curi - Perugia, Italy

Capacity: 28,000

Cost: $4 million

IMG_2750.JPGIMG_2751.JPG

Estadio Chivas - Zapopan, Jalisco, Mexico

Capacity: 46,232

Cost: $217 million

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