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Grand Action - Convention Ctr Expansion/Stadium/Hotel


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15 hours ago, GRLaker said:

Parking? Strike that from your statement. That's not the Grand Rapids way.

This is actually a really cool idea that would set DeVos Place apart from the rest. Glass floors along with balconies right over the water. Then a river entry point and entertainment area attached to the center and the trail. I love it. 

It's a start. We can have just another boring 115,000 sf addition on the convention center or take the city to the next level. There's only one shot to go to the next level. Otherwise we're just a bigger Lansing (in perpetuity). 

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45 minutes ago, jdkacz said:

For GVSU to be FCS they would need to average 15,000 paid attendance over a rolling two year period. Realistically if you had a FCS college team/USL soccer team, building a 25,000 person stadium is going to cost a lot more then $40 million unless that's very bare bones type of facility.

I think having a large soccer field complex so you can have regional tournaments would have the highest boost for the cost.

FBS has that rule, not FCS. There are teams in FCS that barely draw bigger crowds than your typical Class B high school. For FCS, it just requires a conference invitation and the donations to make it possible. I'm a minority in the GV community in my wish for us to be FCS. It would give GR a Division I college program and be a stepping stone for a future move to the MAC.

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1 hour ago, GRLaker said:

FBS has that rule, not FCS. There are teams in FCS that barely draw bigger crowds than your typical Class B high school. For FCS, it just requires a conference invitation and the donations to make it possible. I'm a minority in the GV community in my wish for us to be FCS. It would give GR a Division I college program and be a stepping stone for a future move to the MAC.

Correct, I meant FBS, but I think FCS makes more sense for the next move. Your other sports are then considered Division 1. 

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21 minutes ago, jdkacz said:

Correct, I meant FBS, but I think FCS makes more sense for the next move. Your other sports are then considered Division 1. 

Agreed. Even an FCS school with everything else being D1 would make for a positive impact on the area, I would think.  

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8 hours ago, GR_Urbanist said:

Their expansion options are a post office that refuses to move and....city hall? Oh give me a break! This is a nonstarter.

They have a gigantic parking lot over on Fulton and Market that they need to fill in. And anything there will be automatically connected to the Skywalk system.

Have you ever been to a convention? You definitely don't build the space on opposite ends of the city and then expect people to meander through 6-7 different buildings. It would not fly with convention planners or larger conventions (which is what they are trying to attract). 

Joe

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5 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

I hope they don't plan to tear down city hall and the county building. What about on the 5/3 parking lot? 

They even talked about a major soccer facility for youth soccer. I swear I think more people read this site than we realize. :) 

FYI, Trump will be here Friday night apparently. I fully expect him to take credit for all of this.

 

I was shocked when I saw that in there. That's great. Saginaw has an amazing soccer complex and draws a lot of people for tournaments, games, etc. Youth soccer is a bigger revenue generator (hotel stays, food, entertainment) than most would imagine. 

Joe

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4 hours ago, GRLaker said:

Parking? Strike that from your statement. That's not the Grand Rapids way.

This is actually a really cool idea that would set DeVos Place apart from the rest. Glass floors along with balconies right over the water. Then a river entry point and entertainment area attached to the center and the trail. I love it. 

I remember someone on here wanting an aquarium by the Gerald R Ford Museum? That would be a cool place to a glass balcony over the river.

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3 hours ago, GRLaker said:

FBS has that rule, not FCS. There are teams in FCS that barely draw bigger crowds than your typical Class B high school. For FCS, it just requires a conference invitation and the donations to make it possible. I'm a minority in the GV community in my wish for us to be FCS. It would give GR a Division I college program and be a stepping stone for a future move to the MAC.

This is what I'm talking about.  And you could make the stadium so it could be expanded if anything does happen. 

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I read a while back that Lubbers was made to be expandable to 30k in the last renovations. I have not seen plans on how it would happen though.

i agree it would be great for GVSU to be D1 and to be more DT, for the city and the schoool. But it's expensive and they have never seemed willing.

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1 hour ago, droonus2000 said:

I read a while back that Lubbers was made to be expandable to 30k in the last renovations. I have not seen plans on how it would happen though.

i agree it would be great for GVSU to be D1 and to be more DT, for the city and the schoool. But it's expensive and they have never seemed willing.

The idea of the soccer stadium doubling as a future home of GVSU is a pipe dream,  but it's also very feasible. I think it would be great.  Personally,  I'd like to see the caps move downtown. I know this will pain alot of people to hear,  but 5/3 park kinda sucks compared to other minor league parks. 

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I wonder how the Grand Action plans will affect the work being done on Calder Plaza (if at all)? The latest plan does a lot to the Monroe street front, as well as a skywalk. Will they proceed, or will this cause a delay. 

I love GRDad's idea of build out over the river, though I wonder if you could get enough space, without impacting the river. I think a signature piece of architecture along the river, along with restoring the rapids, would be a YUGE win for the city. 

Also, as far as having a hotel anchored to the Convention Center, couldn't that be done NOW with no additional space? Call me crazy, but I think it would be "relatively" easy to build something above DeVos place, with a small entrance/valet area and elevators up to a 4th or 5th story lobby. I could see it being done on the Northeast Corner of the building (SW corner of Monroe/Michigan) with a few support beams being added to the convention floor (meeting rooms/ballroom?), or between DeVos Hall and the Windquest building. It seems like that could be done now if that is "holding back" conventions.

 

Screen Shot 2016-12-06 at 8.09.27 AM.png

Also, as far as the Post Office site. Throwing politics into this, I bet the DeVos - Trump relationship could get this done. Art of the Deal. ;)

Joe

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23 minutes ago, joeDowntown said:

I wonder how the Grand Action plans will affect the work being done on Calder Plaza (if at all)? The latest plan does a lot to the Monroe street front, as well as a skywalk. Will they proceed, or will this cause a delay.

I love GRDad's idea of build out over the river, though I wonder if you could get enough space, without impacting the river. I think a signature piece of architecture along the river, along with restoring the rapids, would be a YUGE win for the city.

Also, as far as having a hotel anchored to the Convention Center, couldn't that be done NOW with no additional space? Call me crazy, but I think it would be "relatively" easy to build something above DeVos place, with a small entrance/valet area and elevators up to a 4th or 5th story lobby. I could see it being done on the Northeast Corner of the building (SW corner of Monroe/Michigan) with a few support beams being added to the convention floor (meeting rooms/ballroom?), or between DeVos Hall and the Windquest building. It seems like that could be done now if that is "holding back" conventions.

 

Screen Shot 2016-12-06 at 8.09.27 AM.png

Also, as far as the Post Office site. Throwing politics into this, I bet the DeVos - Trump relationship could get this done. Art of the Deal. ;)

Joe

Honestly...I was thinking the same thing in regards to the post office and cabinet spot. It will happen.

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7 hours ago, droonus2000 said:

I read a while back that Lubbers was made to be expandable to 30k in the last renovations. I have not seen plans on how it would happen though.

i agree it would be great for GVSU to be D1 and to be more DT, for the city and the schoool. But it's expensive and they have never seemed willing.

When GVSU football first began in the 70s, the initial plan was to play at Houseman Field. But Don Lubbers insisted on an on-campus stadium, which resulted in Lubbers Stadium being built. Now, they'll never go downtown. As it stands today, Lubbers is one of the better stadiums in D2 and has the potential to be even better with an expansion of the "away" side and a new pressbox.

If GVSU ever did move up to Division I/FCS, I would like to see a push toward making GV Grand Rapids' school. This can be done with increased press, a shuttle system between the city and Allendale for game purposes every week, increased media exposure so games aren't just on Comcast Local 900, etc.

In order to make that happen though, the area elite would need to see a benefit for the community in it and dedicate the funding to make it possible. It would require a budget of around $20 million. GV currently sits at around $11-12 million. So we would need to find an additional $8-9 million dedicated to the athletic department for the move-up.

I think this, plus a USL soccer team, a AA Whitecaps, the Griffins, and the Drive would go a long way for the city.

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1 hour ago, joeDowntown said:

I wonder how the Grand Action plans will affect the work being done on Calder Plaza (if at all)? The latest plan does a lot to the Monroe street front, as well as a skywalk. Will they proceed, or will this cause a delay. 

I love GRDad's idea of build out over the river, though I wonder if you could get enough space, without impacting the river. I think a signature piece of architecture along the river, along with restoring the rapids, would be a YUGE win for the city. 

Also, as far as having a hotel anchored to the Convention Center, couldn't that be done NOW with no additional space? Call me crazy, but I think it would be "relatively" easy to build something above DeVos place, with a small entrance/valet area and elevators up to a 4th or 5th story lobby. I could see it being done on the Northeast Corner of the building (SW corner of Monroe/Michigan) with a few support beams being added to the convention floor (meeting rooms/ballroom?), or between DeVos Hall and the Windquest building. It seems like that could be done now if that is "holding back" conventions.

 

Screen Shot 2016-12-06 at 8.09.27 AM.png

Also, as far as the Post Office site. Throwing politics into this, I bet the DeVos - Trump relationship could get this done. Art of the Deal. ;)

Joe

I was thinking the same thing. That area is pretty much wasted right now and could easily incorporate a lobby of a hotel tower, built above that section. The first two floors of a hotel are lobby anyway. 

1 hour ago, temporary.name said:

Sounds like a fun trip down EPA lane.

 

 

He probably meant bike parking.

The parts over the river would be built on pylons and partially cantilevered, in my vision. No obstruction of the river. 

Don't forget in this proposal they also talk about $350k - $1million "trolley buses" easily identifiable as visitor circulators. 

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16 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

I was thinking the same thing. That area is pretty much wasted right now and could easily incorporate a lobby of a hotel tower, built above that section. The first two floors of a hotel are lobby anyway. 

The parts over the river would be built on pylons and partially cantilevered, in my vision. No obstruction of the river. 

Don't forget in this proposal they also talk about $350k - $1million "trolley buses" easily identifiable as visitor circulators. 

Did I imagine it (I'm too lazy to go back and look) but didn't they also mention gondolas?  

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1 hour ago, GRLaker said:

When GVSU football first began in the 70s, the initial plan was to play at Houseman Field. But Don Lubbers insisted on an on-campus stadium, which resulted in Lubbers Stadium being built. Now, they'll never go downtown. As it stands today, Lubbers is one of the better stadiums in D2 and has the potential to be even better with an expansion of the "away" side and a new pressbox.

If GVSU ever did move up to Division I/FCS, I would like to see a push toward making GV Grand Rapids' school. This can be done with increased press, a shuttle system between the city and Allendale for game purposes every week, increased media exposure so games aren't just on Comcast Local 900, etc.

In order to make that happen though, the area elite would need to see a benefit for the community in it and dedicate the funding to make it possible. It would require a budget of around $20 million. GV currently sits at around $11-12 million. So we would need to find an additional $8-9 million dedicated to the athletic department for the move-up.

I think this, plus a USL soccer team, a AA Whitecaps, the Griffins, and the Drive would go a long way for the city.

 I think it's kind of pathetic that GR  is the largest metro area in the country without a D1 program. If WMU was smarter with their marketing, they should lay more claim on this market. GVSU  is a natural choice for D1 as their attendance, facilities, and sports enthusiasm rivals if not beats most FCS school programs at this point. The AD  there seems to be adamant about staying at Division II, and sites a lot of bad reasons for staying. There would not need to be any stadium expansion necessary, although maybe wanted in the future with increased attendance. Win at that level and the exposure alone would have significant immediate economic impacts. So the capital investment to get there has to be minimal, and at this point I got to believe theres enough people, boosters, and community entities to get it there. Just think, once or twice a year  there would be opportunities to play a Mac or big 10 program  in football, and there would be several opportunities in basketball including at home (van andel?). 

 

 Although with the way Davenport is trending, they will be at the FCS level way before GVSU

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45 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

I was thinking the same thing. That area is pretty much wasted right now and could easily incorporate a lobby of a hotel tower, built above that section. The first two floors of a hotel are lobby anyway.

The parts over the river would be built on pylons and partially cantilevered, in my vision. No obstruction of the river.

Don't forget in this proposal they also talk about $350k - $1million "trolley buses" easily identifiable as visitor circulators.

Yep. You could easily add on a whole meeting space into the river with pylons only being on the shoreline and the remainder being cantilevered. Then add another space in the basement and 2nd floor of the new hotel tower and build up from there.

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16 minutes ago, GR8scott said:

 I think it's kind of pathetic that GR  is the largest metro area in the country without a D1 program. If WMU was smarter with their marketing, they should lay more claim on this market. GVSU  is a natural choice for D1 as their attendance, facilities, and sports enthusiasm rivals if not beats most FCS school programs at this point. The AD  there seems to be adamant about staying at Division II, and sites a lot of bad reasons for staying. There would not need to be any stadium expansion necessary, although maybe wanted in the future with increased attendance. Win at that level and the exposure alone would have significant immediate economic impacts. So the capital investment to get there has to be minimal, and at this point I got to believe theres enough people, boosters, and community entities to get it there. Just think, once or twice a year  there would be opportunities to play a Mac or big 10 program  in football, and there would be several opportunities in basketball including at home (van andel?).

 

 Although with the way Davenport is trending, they will be at the FCS level way before GVSU

GVSU's athletic administration has long been small-time thinkers. They would rather be the big fish in a small pond and use a small school mindset of promoting unqualified coaches from within because they're friends or family, beat up on 900 student schools like Lake Erie, etc. As much good as Selgo did for GVSU, I think GV would not have risen to greater heights with him at the helm. Thankfully, he retired last year. Unfortunately, GVSU did the most GVSU thing they could do and hired the woman he mentored. So...I think unless the area elite come forward and say, "Grand Rapids needs a Division I athletic program and we want GVSU to be that program," it will never be done. We'll continue to rack up Director's Cups as the top school in D2 (we have like 10 by now) while every other school that has won it or been runner-up in the past made the move up (Grand Canyon, Cal-Davis, Cal State-Bakersfield, Abilene Christian, North Dakota State, etc.)

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2 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

GVSU's athletic administration has long been small-time thinkers. They would rather be the big fish in a small pond and use a small school mindset of promoting unqualified coaches from within because they're friends or family, beat up on 900 student schools like Lake Erie, etc. As much good as Selgo did for GVSU, I think GV would not have risen to greater heights with him at the helm. Thankfully, he retired last year. Unfortunately, GVSU did the most GVSU thing they could do and hired the woman he mentored. So...I think unless the area elite come forward and say, "Grand Rapids needs a Division I athletic program and we want GVSU to be that program," it will never be done. We'll continue to rack up Director's Cups as the top school in D2 (we have like 10 by now) while every other school that has won it in the past made the move up.

I dont get why they wouldnt want to be like the schools like NDSU that move up and dominate (even beat something like 5 Power fiver FBS schools in a row now), although they represent their entire state, its still smaller and probably harder to recruit there. Then you have others like Valpo 2 hours away, 1/10 the size and gets on a national stage with bball all the time, although football they stink. Also why wouldnt more students and community leaders demand it?

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4 minutes ago, GR8scott said:

I dont get why they wouldnt want to be like the schools like NDSU that move up and dominate (even beat something like 5 Power fiver FBS schools in a row now), although they represent their entire state, its still smaller and probably harder to recruit there. Then you have others like Valpo 2 hours away, 1/10 the size and gets on a national stage with bball all the time, although football they stink. Also why wouldnt more students and community leaders demand it?

Agreed. But Valpo sucks at football because they're non-scholarship. GVSU would have to join the Missouri Valley Conference in football (ND State, Northern Iowa, Youngstown State, Western Illinois, SD State, Illinois State, South Dakota, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, Indiana State) and the Horizon League in all other sports (Cleveland State, Detroit Mercy, Wisconsin-Green Bay, Wisconsin-Milwaukee, Northern Kentucky, Oakland, Illinois-Chicago, Valpo, Wright State, Youngstown State). A lot of former D2 schools in there and a lot of great potential rivalries that could bring some great exposure to Grand Rapids in the college sports world.

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42 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

GVSU's athletic administration has long been small-time thinkers. They would rather be the big fish in a small pond and use a small school mindset of promoting unqualified coaches from within because they're friends or family, beat up on 900 student schools like Lake Erie, etc. As much good as Selgo did for GVSU, I think GV would not have risen to greater heights with him at the helm. Thankfully, he retired last year. Unfortunately, GVSU did the most GVSU thing they could do and hired the woman he mentored. So...I think unless the area elite come forward and say, "Grand Rapids needs a Division I athletic program and we want GVSU to be that program," it will never be done. We'll continue to rack up Director's Cups as the top school in D2 (we have like 10 by now) while every other school that has won it or been runner-up in the past made the move up (Grand Canyon, Cal-Davis, Cal State-Bakersfield, Abilene Christian, North Dakota State, etc.)

Well, Ferris has been on a roll for a couple of seasons and just handed GVSU their butt last weekend so maybe D1 needs a second FSU instead?  Ferris already plays D1 in hockey I believe.  

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